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martin
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12/5/2022  3:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2022  3:26 PM
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

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Nalod
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12/5/2022  3:22 PM
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Since Woodson....

Fish was 40-96
Rambis 9-19
Hornacek 60-104
Fizdale 21-83
Miller 9-19
Thibs 89-89 2.1.25 seasons

Its not like we have a star studded cast.
he was COY 1st weird year. It was weird. He was COY.
Last year 37 win regression full schedule.
THis year are 11-13

Some of you are freaking out about mediocrity. Wouldn't one think that the path up has to go thru Mediocrity?

It's not mediocrity - it's subpar performance/development. It's regression. It's adding a talent like Brunson and watching the season careen towards another high 30 win total. It's watching RJ turn into Kevin Knox before our eyes. It's watching our best 3 point shooter and athlete playing a mere 17 minutes a game when the player in front of him plays defense worse than a matador.

It's a question driven from a belief that we can't be this bad, and maybe we are, but then maybe we need a new voice.

Playing McBride was a great move yesterday. But getting Thibs to change his patterns is a bit like pulling teeth.

Regression from what? 72 game short season were we finished 41-31? no fans, weird ass season?
Or 37-45?

Thibs pulled EF and Grimes was not healthy yet. he gave Cam a great run. Upped the pace to the detriment of defense.
is developing sims, IQ, Grimes and obi. you want to dump barrett after 25 games?
Not saying to be happy. But what about "knicks will struggle to make play in game" do you not understand?
What have we regressed from? I don't see last year was all that great.
He vowed to fix Randle. To some extent he has. Obi? Kid did shoot the lights out for a while.
I would not say RJ is "knox" but I get the jist and the frustration. He has regressed statistically.
fishmike
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12/5/2022  3:25 PM
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....

exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.

It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt **** but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.

...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.

Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player

Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.

Sometimes I wonder how much on the same page they are when you consider Kemba lasted about a month before he was benched, and Evan, the other '21 summer FA splash signing lasted a year and a few weeks before he was banished to the bench. But, I hear what you are saying though...

are those bad outcomes? Kemba was shot and we need a different direction than EF. Feel like Thibs is being pretty methodical in seeing what we have.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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12/5/2022  3:33 PM
Uptown wrote:
blkexec wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what's next, we stop drafting players that played at Kentucky?

Thibs is a B+ coach. yeah, I guess it could be better. But who do you propose we replace him with? Udoka? Fizzdale?

Thats the other problem. There arent many options out there. I for one have said Thibs or Randle should be moved. And if theres limited options for a new coach, then Randle gets the short stick, because his replacements are lined up with players already on the team, starting with Obi, Cam, etc.....

Finding someone to replace Randles 20 and 10 will be hard. Finding someone that hustles and plays hard on both ends, will be easier to find..

Don't think you need one person to put up 20 & 10. Removing Randle from the equation, ups the usage of Brunson, which is a good thing, and promotes more ball movement which will in-turn give others more touches and opportunities. Not to mention, the player or players that will trade uniforms with Randle.

if you want a "mini-tank" you can explore sending Rose/Randle/EF to the Lakers for Westbrook and those 2 unprotected picks that are way out and everyone covets. We basically have the same rotation but Westbrook runs the 2nd unit and becomes a massive expiring to use in a deadline firesale or just let him walk
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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12/5/2022  3:35 PM
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

thats all nice... you are missing the point. Why Atkinson? Cause it's not Thibs. Its legit that simple. I swear fans are bored of this and something new and shiny.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jskinny35
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12/5/2022  4:41 PM
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

I watched a lot of Net games when he coached and he took a team of mostly young players to 42-40 after two seasons of progression (8 wins, 14 wins). The young players seemed dialed in, played hard and while they struggled with injuries - they all progressed and were better 3 seasons later (Lavert, Dinwiddie, Harris and Allen). This season it feels like RJ, IQ and Toppin are more inconsistent vs their first two seasons. I do think the Nets FO realized the need for development and that takes pressure off a coach. I'm not even suggesting Atkinson is a better coach - just maybe a better fit with our young roster since Thibs is known to prefer vets to win every game. How do young players grow if they don't get a chance to fail on the court in meaningful minutes? Yes RJ has failed many times :)

So in actuality it's more of a FO/management thing because they knew this when they hired him. And yet we hear periodic reports/grumblings about if Thibs will pivot and find minutes for Toppin, play IQ more, give Cam a chance etc... I will say it was positive he played CAM somewhat and finally gave McBride some minutes in an actual game (but it did take him to get blown out by Mavs to do so).
jskinny35
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12/5/2022  4:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

thats all nice... you are missing the point. Why Atkinson? Cause it's not Thibs. Its legit that simple. I swear fans are bored of this and something new and shiny.

Umm no - I like Thibs and think he is a solid coach overall. When you have a roster of 2/3 young talent but play mostly vets due to a win now approach it makes it very difficult to increase development. And when you're vets are middle of the road it usually leaves you stuck in mediocrity... especially when despite playing them many minutes - they have little trade value to other teams.
Clean
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12/5/2022  4:59 PM


Keep those defenses of Thibs going.
martin
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12/5/2022  5:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2022  5:28 PM
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

thats all nice... you are missing the point. Why Atkinson? Cause it's not Thibs. Its legit that simple. I swear fans are bored of this and something new and shiny.

Umm no - I like Thibs and think he is a solid coach overall. When you have a roster of 2/3 young talent but play mostly vets due to a win now approach it makes it very difficult to increase development. And when you're vets are middle of the road it usually leaves you stuck in mediocrity... especially when despite playing them many minutes - they have little trade value to other teams.

What year are you talking about? The first year when Thibs was playing RJ Randle Mictch IQ decent to heavy minutes or like this year when his whole playing roster is like 28, 26 and then 22, 23, 24?

Literally what are you smoking and why aren’t you paying attention to what is actually happening?

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Uptown
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12/5/2022  5:53 PM
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....

exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.

It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt **** but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.

...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.

Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player

Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.

Sometimes I wonder how much on the same page they are when you consider Kemba lasted about a month before he was benched, and Evan, the other '21 summer FA splash signing lasted a year and a few weeks before he was banished to the bench. But, I hear what you are saying though...

are those bad outcomes? Kemba was shot and we need a different direction than EF. Feel like Thibs is being pretty methodical in seeing what we have.

Which is why it was head-scratching that the FO added a 5'9 pg, with a damaged knee to play at the top of Thibs defense! Some of us on this board said it wouldn't work in a Kemba Walker thread started on this board just before the playoffs when elfrid was still here. Then the FO doubled-down and added Fournier to play alongside Kemba when we watched that tandem struggle, defensively the year before with the Celtics. Have a hard time believing Thibs signed off on our '21 free agent signees, and if he did, he and the front office dropped the ball.
franco12
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12/5/2022  8:25 PM
Clean wrote:

Keep those defenses of Thibs going.

I misread this as Thibs is doing a great job, keep his defensive strategy going.

I recognize this is a double edge sword. IQ is good, perhaps, with Thibs support. And you don't want him over exposed so he regresses, like a certain other, 2 lettered Knick.

But at a certain point, these moves add up and I can't make sense of them.

Our best 3pt shooter plays 17.5 minutes a game, and it doesn't matter if he is shooting great, out he comes, like clock work.

Meanwhile, RJ turns the ball over 5x and is shooting an embarrassingly pathetic .282 from 3, and he is free to go about his business as a starter.

For me, this is not a change for the sake of change. This is about fit, about our franchise at this point in time, the direction of some of these players development.

I think a different defensive approach would work better. Pack the paint and pray worked for us once.

Finally we saw Thibs go with McBride who has brought energy (not made baskets) that has resulted in better play from the players out there at the same time.

But I have maybe zero expectation that he will continue with playing McBride - though he could prove me and all of us wrong.
Philc1
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12/6/2022  6:51 AM
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

Thibs has some strengths - he did instill a defensive concept/emphasis when he first took over. He offers stability and is consistent.
Thibs has some negatives - he not offensively creative at all, he tends to overuse his fave players, he wears out his welcome eventually

I think the Knicks would be foolish to try to build from mediocrity as believe it's very unlikely a 27 year Durant-type player will want to join the Knicks without depleting us of our roster and picks. And that's what would work with this existing roster (like Nets a few years back). Even if a Booker were to become available via trade - it would surely cost us our future and we'd be left with Randle or RJ as the other player to complement - is that close to enough to contend? I think no so hope we look at ourselves in the mirror and take 2 steps back with the hope we eventually leap 3-4 steps forward via young talent and a different coaching philosophy.

Moving Randle, Fournier, Rose could yield us at least one #1 pick (ex Lakers). Maybe that includes RJ or IQ as well... Hiring a Kenny Atkinson-type coach would allow for us to make decisions on which young players are worth keeping/resigning or trading. So while Thibs served an important purpose (stabilized the Knicks, improved effort) early on - I think we are somewhat deluded with keeping him ("win now" approach) and trying to incrementally progress with the current roster (without making significant moves). I'm not feeling particularly inpatient and would be fine if it takes longer to continue building incrementally - just think we are going about it the wrong way with a roster of young kids and a coach that prioritizes winning every game at all costs.

Regardless of my opinion and recent win - don't think Thibs makes it past the new year...

You think Thibs is getting fired during the season?
Philc1
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12/6/2022  6:55 AM
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....

exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.

It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt **** but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.

...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.

Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player

Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.

Sometimes I wonder how much on the same page they are when you consider Kemba lasted about a month before he was benched, and Evan, the other '21 summer FA splash signing lasted a year and a few weeks before he was banished to the bench. But, I hear what you are saying though...

are those bad outcomes? Kemba was shot and we need a different direction than EF. Feel like Thibs is being pretty methodical in seeing what we have.

Which is why it was head-scratching that the FO added a 5'9 pg, with a damaged knee to play at the top of Thibs defense! Some of us on this board said it wouldn't work in a Kemba Walker thread started on this board just before the playoffs when elfrid was still here. Then the FO doubled-down and added Fournier to play alongside Kemba when we watched that tandem struggle, defensively the year before with the Celtics. Have a hard time believing Thibs signed off on our '21 free agent signees, and if he did, he and the front office dropped the ball.

We desperately needed a competent pg and Kemba was available for basically nothing. Yeah, probably not a Thibs move but we saw the alternative and that was make Burks a full time pg and that didn’t work out either
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12/6/2022  7:07 AM
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

It’s more that I don’t agree with his coaching philosophy and believe that the criticisms, that the game has left him behind, are evident in his coaching style and our team play. This T is the second in as many games where he is cursing out the ref for being “blind” when he is wrong. This one where they are up 5 but fending off a run by the Cavs.

The lack of ball movement. The number of open threes. The perception that player minutes are mismanaged. The overly aggressive techs on coach errors. The lack of faith that there is an overall plan. These are my reasons.

I don’t want to watch two more years of iso ball for the 10-11-12 pick.

This is the Randle.
franco12
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12/6/2022  7:14 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

It’s more that I don’t agree with his coaching philosophy and believe that the criticisms, that the game has left him behind, are evident in his coaching style and our team play. This T is the second in as many games where he is cursing out the ref for being “blind” when he is wrong. This one where they are up 5 but fending off a run by the Cavs.

The lack of ball movement. The number of open threes. The perception that player minutes are mismanaged. The overly aggressive techs on coach errors. The lack of faith that there is an overall plan. These are my reasons.

I don’t want to watch two more years of iso ball for the 10-11-12 pick.

The Tech he got was really bizarre. I can understand his frustration with the way the knicks have played of late and getting a tech when you are down to try to motivate the team. But up late like we were? I get the frustration with the travel calls, but the lack of a call was not tech worthy.
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12/6/2022  9:21 AM
How many guys named “Kenny” are disliked? Very few if any. Guys named Kenneth or Ken can be *******s, but not “Kenny”.
thats weak, but not far off.
Atkinson, was a knick assistant under MDA. Good rep here right?
Goes to ATL under coach Bud. Good stuff.
Gets Nets gig and does good. Not great but good to build a culture and part of the post Russian rebuild.
Makes playoffs. Gets accolades. All good…….

Then KD turns his back on Knicks. Heavens! Evil ****! Then, he has Atkinson dumped!

Bringing back to Atkinson to Knicks and if he can do good is like telling KD to **** off.
Who doesn’t want to tell KD to **** off? If knicks can’t win, and Thibs needs to be held accountable and punished for his being stubborn well then we can do that, bring in “Kenny”, and tell KD to **** off!

Thats why. Of course he been at GSW and now has the chip DNA too! Remember When Phil basically hired Kerr? I do.
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12/6/2022  12:04 PM
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)

Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).

What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?

His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?

Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.

Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.

thats all nice... you are missing the point. Why Atkinson? Cause it's not Thibs. Its legit that simple. I swear fans are bored of this and something new and shiny.

Umm no - I like Thibs and think he is a solid coach overall. When you have a roster of 2/3 young talent but play mostly vets due to a win now approach it makes it very difficult to increase development. And when you're vets are middle of the road it usually leaves you stuck in mediocrity... especially when despite playing them many minutes - they have little trade value to other teams.

What year are you talking about? The first year when Thibs was playing RJ Randle Mictch IQ decent to heavy minutes or like this year when his whole playing roster is like 28, 26 and then 22, 23, 24?

Literally what are you smoking and why aren’t you paying attention to what is actually happening?

Does it matter? Thibs always defaults to the older players regardless of if they are 24, 28 or 30. We had to move Burks to avoid Thibs from continuing to play him as a PG instead of taking some lumps with IQ, McBride, etc... Despite Toppin showing he could play and produce well in small minute doses (and big minutes in last 5 games last year) - he would continue to play Randle excessive minutes until this season. He continually deferred to Taj over Mitch many times before we finally moved on from Taj.

And again - if it is the priority to win every game - those were probably the correct moves. My issue is we should have been trying to balance winning with more development so that we don't get stuck with young players that are still undetermined after 3 seasons.

So not smoking anything and are you going to tell me that didn't happen?
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12/6/2022  12:07 PM
Philc1 wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

Thibs has some strengths - he did instill a defensive concept/emphasis when he first took over. He offers stability and is consistent.
Thibs has some negatives - he not offensively creative at all, he tends to overuse his fave players, he wears out his welcome eventually

I think the Knicks would be foolish to try to build from mediocrity as believe it's very unlikely a 27 year Durant-type player will want to join the Knicks without depleting us of our roster and picks. And that's what would work with this existing roster (like Nets a few years back). Even if a Booker were to become available via trade - it would surely cost us our future and we'd be left with Randle or RJ as the other player to complement - is that close to enough to contend? I think no so hope we look at ourselves in the mirror and take 2 steps back with the hope we eventually leap 3-4 steps forward via young talent and a different coaching philosophy.

Moving Randle, Fournier, Rose could yield us at least one #1 pick (ex Lakers). Maybe that includes RJ or IQ as well... Hiring a Kenny Atkinson-type coach would allow for us to make decisions on which young players are worth keeping/resigning or trading. So while Thibs served an important purpose (stabilized the Knicks, improved effort) early on - I think we are somewhat deluded with keeping him ("win now" approach) and trying to incrementally progress with the current roster (without making significant moves). I'm not feeling particularly inpatient and would be fine if it takes longer to continue building incrementally - just think we are going about it the wrong way with a roster of young kids and a coach that prioritizes winning every game at all costs.

Regardless of my opinion and recent win - don't think Thibs makes it past the new year...

You think Thibs is getting fired during the season?

We suffer a few more similar blowouts in the same week and I think he will get fired (or resign).
fishmike
Posts: 53138
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12/6/2022  12:23 PM
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

Thibs has some strengths - he did instill a defensive concept/emphasis when he first took over. He offers stability and is consistent.
Thibs has some negatives - he not offensively creative at all, he tends to overuse his fave players, he wears out his welcome eventually

I think the Knicks would be foolish to try to build from mediocrity as believe it's very unlikely a 27 year Durant-type player will want to join the Knicks without depleting us of our roster and picks. And that's what would work with this existing roster (like Nets a few years back). Even if a Booker were to become available via trade - it would surely cost us our future and we'd be left with Randle or RJ as the other player to complement - is that close to enough to contend? I think no so hope we look at ourselves in the mirror and take 2 steps back with the hope we eventually leap 3-4 steps forward via young talent and a different coaching philosophy.

Moving Randle, Fournier, Rose could yield us at least one #1 pick (ex Lakers). Maybe that includes RJ or IQ as well... Hiring a Kenny Atkinson-type coach would allow for us to make decisions on which young players are worth keeping/resigning or trading. So while Thibs served an important purpose (stabilized the Knicks, improved effort) early on - I think we are somewhat deluded with keeping him ("win now" approach) and trying to incrementally progress with the current roster (without making significant moves). I'm not feeling particularly inpatient and would be fine if it takes longer to continue building incrementally - just think we are going about it the wrong way with a roster of young kids and a coach that prioritizes winning every game at all costs.

Regardless of my opinion and recent win - don't think Thibs makes it past the new year...

You think Thibs is getting fired during the season?

We suffer a few more similar blowouts in the same week and I think he will get fired (or resign).

dude you are not even close to reading the room
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jskinny35
Posts: 21464
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12/6/2022  12:36 PM
fishmike wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.

It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?

Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis

Thibs has some strengths - he did instill a defensive concept/emphasis when he first took over. He offers stability and is consistent.
Thibs has some negatives - he not offensively creative at all, he tends to overuse his fave players, he wears out his welcome eventually

I think the Knicks would be foolish to try to build from mediocrity as believe it's very unlikely a 27 year Durant-type player will want to join the Knicks without depleting us of our roster and picks. And that's what would work with this existing roster (like Nets a few years back). Even if a Booker were to become available via trade - it would surely cost us our future and we'd be left with Randle or RJ as the other player to complement - is that close to enough to contend? I think no so hope we look at ourselves in the mirror and take 2 steps back with the hope we eventually leap 3-4 steps forward via young talent and a different coaching philosophy.

Moving Randle, Fournier, Rose could yield us at least one #1 pick (ex Lakers). Maybe that includes RJ or IQ as well... Hiring a Kenny Atkinson-type coach would allow for us to make decisions on which young players are worth keeping/resigning or trading. So while Thibs served an important purpose (stabilized the Knicks, improved effort) early on - I think we are somewhat deluded with keeping him ("win now" approach) and trying to incrementally progress with the current roster (without making significant moves). I'm not feeling particularly inpatient and would be fine if it takes longer to continue building incrementally - just think we are going about it the wrong way with a roster of young kids and a coach that prioritizes winning every game at all costs.

Regardless of my opinion and recent win - don't think Thibs makes it past the new year...

You think Thibs is getting fired during the season?

We suffer a few more similar blowouts in the same week and I think he will get fired (or resign).

dude you are not even close to reading the room

The room I'm reading is we have an owner who gets more impatient vs most fans here... pressure to Leon will get transferred to Thibs (save his job) eventually. The pot is already on the stove - what happens in the next two weeks will determine a lot. If they show consistent effort and play hard - he will stay. If we continue under 500% and there are continued blowouts - I believe he will go.
Guess we'll wait and see...
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