Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I'll expand on those 2 thoughts. Brunson has the gravitas to take the ball out of Randle and RJ's decision-making hands THROUGHOUT the game and also at the end of the game. Both of those guys rarely are bringing the ball up the court unless there is a straight-line advantage to do so, give or take.

Rose can do this some but not as effectively as Brunson, and IQ would have a tendency to lean towards deferring to RJ/Randle if he were starting and certainly if he was struggling at all; he is not all the way their as a floor general but I've been impressed with his development there.

Brunson flat out takes the ball out of RJ/Randle hands.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I'll expand on those 2 thoughts. Brunson has the gravitas to take the ball out of Randle and RJ's decision-making hands THROUGHOUT the game and also at the end of the game. Both of those guys rarely are bringing the ball up the court unless there is a straight-line advantage to do so, give or take.

Rose can do this some but not as effectively as Brunson, and IQ would have a tendency to lean towards deferring to RJ/Randle if he were starting and certainly if he was struggling at all; he is not all the way their as a floor general but I've been impressed with his development there.

Brunson flat out takes the ball out of RJ/Randle hands.

I agree with most but disagree that IQ needs to be ready.

Ready is a standard made up by fans. Each fan has their own definition of ready.

As an organization, we not ready. As a FO Leon wasn’t ready. what does ready mean? And why does IQ have to meet your definition of ready. Why can’t he contribute and grow into an nba PG or an nba impactful player, regardless of his title.

IQ was just as ready as ELF or Burks. IQ at point would’ve won the same amount of games as Burks or more. So again what defines as ready? If deuce ran the point instead of Burks we would’ve won the same if not more games. Ok let’s say I’m wrong and we lose more games. Guess wha that does to our chances of landing an impact player in the draft.

Was Burks ready? Cause he started most games. Was Kemba ready? Same with EF. The Knicks felt like they was ready so they got their bag. Where are they now? How did being ready help Kemba and burks? If IQ needs to be ready like them, I rather he not be ready.

IQ could’ve started from the beginning and worse case let’s assume the Knicks would be in the same position they are now. Does that mean IQ wasn’t ready? No…………Sorry but I really hate that comment from most fans saying someone isn’t ready. I don’t think fans are ready to see someone with low nba experience run a team. We’ll times have changed. The question is, when will the FO be ready to release Thibs or Randle. I don’t have a lot of long term faith in that relationship. Randle thinks he’s all world. Thibs can’t hold Randle accountable. Both Will slowing turn into a cancerous problem over time and others will start to tune them out.

That’s the real dribbling block. In todays nba, it doesn’t take must for college players to adapt. And if I have to pay someone over 100 mil for Randle to give up the ball, then is it IQ who’s not ready or Randle.

We are babying Randle to much and it makes me sick. I don’t care if you was the pg. if I’m the coach and Randle is blowing you off, Randle sits. He keeps it up, Randle is out.

But that’s water under the bridge. JB is here and IQ can now play his normal roll which is better than what he was trying to be. He’s a scorer first so let him score.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I never put IQ in the context of Ready.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I'll expand on those 2 thoughts. Brunson has the gravitas to take the ball out of Randle and RJ's decision-making hands THROUGHOUT the game and also at the end of the game. Both of those guys rarely are bringing the ball up the court unless there is a straight-line advantage to do so, give or take.

Rose can do this some but not as effectively as Brunson, and IQ would have a tendency to lean towards deferring to RJ/Randle if he were starting and certainly if he was struggling at all; he is not all the way their as a floor general but I've been impressed with his development there.

Brunson flat out takes the ball out of RJ/Randle hands.

I agree with most but disagree that IQ needs to be ready.

Ready is a standard made up by fans. Each fan has their own definition of ready.

As an organization, we not ready. As a FO Leon wasn’t ready. what does ready mean? And why does IQ have to meet your definition of ready. Why can’t he contribute and grow into an nba PG or an nba impactful player, regardless of his title.

IQ was just as ready as ELF or Burks. IQ at point would’ve won the same amount of games as Burks or more. So again what defines as ready? If deuce ran the point instead of Burks we would’ve won the same if not more games. Ok let’s say I’m wrong and we lose more games. Guess wha that does to our chances of landing an impact player in the draft.

Was Burks ready? Cause he started most games. Was Kemba ready? Same with EF. The Knicks felt like they was ready so they got their bag. Where are they now? How did being ready help Kemba and burks? If IQ needs to be ready like them, I rather he not be ready.

IQ could’ve started from the beginning and worse case let’s assume the Knicks would be in the same position they are now. Does that mean IQ wasn’t ready? No…………Sorry but I really hate that comment from most fans saying someone isn’t ready. I don’t think fans are ready to see someone with low nba experience run a team. We’ll times have changed. The question is, when will the FO be ready to release Thibs or Randle. I don’t have a lot of long term faith in that relationship. Randle thinks he’s all world. Thibs can’t hold Randle accountable. Both Will slowing turn into a cancerous problem over time and others will start to tune them out.

That’s the real dribbling block. In todays nba, it doesn’t take must for college players to adapt. And if I have to pay someone over 100 mil for Randle to give up the ball, then is it IQ who’s not ready or Randle.

We are babying Randle to much and it makes me sick. I don’t care if you was the pg. if I’m the coach and Randle is blowing you off, Randle sits. He keeps it up, Randle is out.

But that’s water under the bridge. JB is here and IQ can now play his normal roll which is better than what he was trying to be. He’s a scorer first so let him score.

What YOUR PROBLEM is you dont like that Randle is our best player, but that's not Randle's fault, its the FOs fault and hopefully we change that. Brunson was a good start. Randle has changed his game and his having a good year.

These "I would bench Randle" comments are so laughable... its the NBA dude

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I'll expand on those 2 thoughts. Brunson has the gravitas to take the ball out of Randle and RJ's decision-making hands THROUGHOUT the game and also at the end of the game. Both of those guys rarely are bringing the ball up the court unless there is a straight-line advantage to do so, give or take.

Rose can do this some but not as effectively as Brunson, and IQ would have a tendency to lean towards deferring to RJ/Randle if he were starting and certainly if he was struggling at all; he is not all the way their as a floor general but I've been impressed with his development there.

Brunson flat out takes the ball out of RJ/Randle hands.

I agree with most but disagree that IQ needs to be ready.

Ready is a standard made up by fans. Each fan has their own definition of ready.

As an organization, we not ready. As a FO Leon wasn’t ready. what does ready mean? And why does IQ have to meet your definition of ready. Why can’t he contribute and grow into an nba PG or an nba impactful player, regardless of his title.

IQ was just as ready as ELF or Burks. IQ at point would’ve won the same amount of games as Burks or more. So again what defines as ready? If deuce ran the point instead of Burks we would’ve won the same if not more games. Ok let’s say I’m wrong and we lose more games. Guess wha that does to our chances of landing an impact player in the draft.

Was Burks ready? Cause he started most games. Was Kemba ready? Same with EF. The Knicks felt like they was ready so they got their bag. Where are they now? How did being ready help Kemba and burks? If IQ needs to be ready like them, I rather he not be ready.

IQ could’ve started from the beginning and worse case let’s assume the Knicks would be in the same position they are now. Does that mean IQ wasn’t ready? No…………Sorry but I really hate that comment from most fans saying someone isn’t ready. I don’t think fans are ready to see someone with low nba experience run a team. We’ll times have changed. The question is, when will the FO be ready to release Thibs or Randle. I don’t have a lot of long term faith in that relationship. Randle thinks he’s all world. Thibs can’t hold Randle accountable. Both Will slowing turn into a cancerous problem over time and others will start to tune them out.

That’s the real dribbling block. In todays nba, it doesn’t take must for college players to adapt. And if I have to pay someone over 100 mil for Randle to give up the ball, then is it IQ who’s not ready or Randle.

We are babying Randle to much and it makes me sick. I don’t care if you was the pg. if I’m the coach and Randle is blowing you off, Randle sits. He keeps it up, Randle is out.

But that’s water under the bridge. JB is here and IQ can now play his normal roll which is better than what he was trying to be. He’s a scorer first so let him score.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I never put IQ in the context of Ready.

Correct. I highlighted what you said and I agree. He's improving and may not be the floor general yet but making progress in the right direction.

I guess I took my frustration out on you, my fault. But in general, that was a very common response I got and continue to get so I thought you was leaning in that direction.

But JB is nice and IQ is a great player to have as his backup since he can both start or come off the bench and still impact the team.

I would hate to see him go, but something has to be done to clear up the PG jam, now that we have JB on board. How long with Rose get DNP, before he starts to complain? Now I'm curious how the rotation will be next game. And why does it feel like Thibs has no problem sitting or reducing minutes from everybody except Randle. I don't know, I'll leave thibs alone. He's at least trying to adapt and adjust at the same time, so I can't be mad at that.

But yes I agree Martin. Sorry about that. I went on my morning chat rant. Forgot to take my meds

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I'll expand on those 2 thoughts. Brunson has the gravitas to take the ball out of Randle and RJ's decision-making hands THROUGHOUT the game and also at the end of the game. Both of those guys rarely are bringing the ball up the court unless there is a straight-line advantage to do so, give or take.

Rose can do this some but not as effectively as Brunson, and IQ would have a tendency to lean towards deferring to RJ/Randle if he were starting and certainly if he was struggling at all; he is not all the way their as a floor general but I've been impressed with his development there.

Brunson flat out takes the ball out of RJ/Randle hands.

I agree with most but disagree that IQ needs to be ready.

Ready is a standard made up by fans. Each fan has their own definition of ready.

As an organization, we not ready. As a FO Leon wasn’t ready. what does ready mean? And why does IQ have to meet your definition of ready. Why can’t he contribute and grow into an nba PG or an nba impactful player, regardless of his title.

IQ was just as ready as ELF or Burks. IQ at point would’ve won the same amount of games as Burks or more. So again what defines as ready? If deuce ran the point instead of Burks we would’ve won the same if not more games. Ok let’s say I’m wrong and we lose more games. Guess wha that does to our chances of landing an impact player in the draft.

Was Burks ready? Cause he started most games. Was Kemba ready? Same with EF. The Knicks felt like they was ready so they got their bag. Where are they now? How did being ready help Kemba and burks? If IQ needs to be ready like them, I rather he not be ready.

IQ could’ve started from the beginning and worse case let’s assume the Knicks would be in the same position they are now. Does that mean IQ wasn’t ready? No…………Sorry but I really hate that comment from most fans saying someone isn’t ready. I don’t think fans are ready to see someone with low nba experience run a team. We’ll times have changed. The question is, when will the FO be ready to release Thibs or Randle. I don’t have a lot of long term faith in that relationship. Randle thinks he’s all world. Thibs can’t hold Randle accountable. Both Will slowing turn into a cancerous problem over time and others will start to tune them out.

That’s the real dribbling block. In todays nba, it doesn’t take must for college players to adapt. And if I have to pay someone over 100 mil for Randle to give up the ball, then is it IQ who’s not ready or Randle.

We are babying Randle to much and it makes me sick. I don’t care if you was the pg. if I’m the coach and Randle is blowing you off, Randle sits. He keeps it up, Randle is out.

But that’s water under the bridge. JB is here and IQ can now play his normal roll which is better than what he was trying to be. He’s a scorer first so let him score.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I never put IQ in the context of Ready.

Correct. I highlighted what you said and I agree. He's improving and may not be the floor general yet but making progress in the right direction.

I guess I took my frustration out on you, my fault. But in general, that was a very common response I got and continue to get so I thought you was leaning in that direction.

But JB is nice and IQ is a great player to have as his backup since he can both start or come off the bench and still impact the team.

I would hate to see him go, but something has to be done to clear up the PG jam, now that we have JB on board. How long with Rose get DNP, before he starts to complain? Now I'm curious how the rotation will be next game. And why does it feel like Thibs has no problem sitting or reducing minutes from everybody except Randle. I don't know, I'll leave thibs alone. He's at least trying to adapt and adjust at the same time, so I can't be mad at that.

But yes I agree Martin. Sorry about that. I went on my morning chat rant. Forgot to take my meds

except Randle's minutes ARE down, and he's dead even with Brunson and RJ at 33 minutes a game..... so your narrative is melting man.

Thats because Thibs is also UK member.

I said this earlier in this same thread. It's hard to argue Thibs on a lot of similar complaints because he's showing me / us that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

But if reducing Randles minutes was the only issue, there's no point in discussing. So is my point melting or are you missing it.

Did Thibs reduce Randle's minutes so that he can hold Randle accountable? Is that what you mean. Cause thats my arguement. Now are you saying Thibs reducing Randles minutes is an example of holding him accountable? Because thats very weak to me. Maybe Randles minutes is reduced because his backup (Obi) is the best shooter on the team and he is forcing Thibs hand to play him. Which in turn reduces Randles minutes. Thats not what I'm talking about.

See EF and Rose on the bench. See Cam was a healthy scratch. Thats an example I'm talking about. When will Randle be a healthy scratch? When will Thibs pull Randle during one of his rants and let him watch the game from the side line? If this has already been done and I missed it, then you right. Otherwise my point still stands. And if Thibs can not show equal management with Randle vs the rest of the team, them one of them should go. It's been 3 years so Thibs should be past this already.

fishmike wrote:your fixation for "Thibs holding Randle accountable" is weird. Whatever your expectation is... well it's time to let that go.

You want to see Randle treated like EF? You are in a make believe world.

No I don’t want Randle to be treated like EF. I want Thibs to treat Randle like everybody else. Give Randle the quick hook when he’s not playing defense. Just like he’s quick to give Obi the hook. Now I’ve said this before. Thibs changes on you quick. So as I’m typing he’s probably changing right now. But for example, When Randle comes in the game and the lead goes from double to single digits, it’s due to Randles man scoring everytime he complains to the refs, would love to be a fly on the wall between thibs and Randle. Randles yelling at the refs at IQ at Grimes, yet his defense is average to bad sometimes. That really irked me.

I’ve blamed the FO more times than any knick fan in this forum. I blame the FO for building a team around RJ and Randle. I blame the FO for drafting a back PF at pick#8. We could’ve traded down twice and picked up a backup forward with additional picks. That was and continues to be a fail.

Personally I don’t think Randle is worth it. Randle has the personality to be a #1 option but the reality is he’s more of a #2 or #3 but thinks he’s #1. I don’t think he can adapt to being #3. Same with RJ. He thinks he’s #1 but really he’s the 3rd option on a good team right now.

But I don’t want to sound like an RJ or Randle basher. Or even thibs basher. I’m just in reality mode. Turn us into a playoff team by adding playoff talent or sell the vets and get a high pick.

If RJ and Randle is still your building block, we will always be mediocre.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:your fixation for "Thibs holding Randle accountable" is weird. Whatever your expectation is... well it's time to let that go.

You want to see Randle treated like EF? You are in a make believe world.

No I don’t want Randle to be treated like EF. I want Thibs to treat Randle like everybody else. Give Randle the quick hook when he’s not playing defense. Just like he’s quick to give Obi the hook. Now I’ve said this before. Thibs changes on you quick. So as I’m typing he’s probably changing right now. But for example, When Randle comes in the game and the lead goes from double to single digits, it’s due to Randles man scoring everytime he complains to the refs, would love to be a fly on the wall between thibs and Randle. Randles yelling at the refs at IQ at Grimes, yet his defense is average to bad sometimes. That really irked me.

I’ve blamed the FO more times than any knick fan in this forum. I blame the FO for building a team around RJ and Randle. I blame the FO for drafting a back PF at pick#8. We could’ve traded down twice and picked up a backup forward with additional picks. That was and continues to be a fail.

Personally I don’t think Randle is worth it. Randle has the personality to be a #1 option but the reality is he’s more of a #2 or #3 but thinks he’s #1. I don’t think he can adapt to being #3. Same with RJ. He thinks he’s #1 but really he’s the 3rd option on a good team right now.

But I don’t want to sound like an RJ or Randle basher. Or even thibs basher. I’m just in reality mode. Turn us into a playoff team by adding playoff talent or sell the vets and get a high pick.

If RJ and Randle is still your building block, we will always be mediocre.

This is not the local Y league or even college ball.

You can’t give a guy like Randle a quick hook like you are talking about and survive.

What does giving the quick hook to Randle and Obi at the same time look like? They each play 5 minute shifts and then what? You just have nothing after that.

You aren’t operating in NBA reality, what you are taking about is high school basketball.

I'm getting sick of watching Randle argue. Maybe it's improved, but it seems like a constant battle with him.

And yea, this isn't college- but look at what Pop does with his team- he will yank his guys to make a point.

And maybe Pop wouldn't allow a player like Randle to develop the bad habits he has. And maybe that is what we want.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:your fixation for "Thibs holding Randle accountable" is weird. Whatever your expectation is... well it's time to let that go.

You want to see Randle treated like EF? You are in a make believe world.

No I don’t want Randle to be treated like EF. I want Thibs to treat Randle like everybody else. Give Randle the quick hook when he’s not playing defense. Just like he’s quick to give Obi the hook. Now I’ve said this before. Thibs changes on you quick. So as I’m typing he’s probably changing right now. But for example, When Randle comes in the game and the lead goes from double to single digits, it’s due to Randles man scoring everytime he complains to the refs, would love to be a fly on the wall between thibs and Randle. Randles yelling at the refs at IQ at Grimes, yet his defense is average to bad sometimes. That really irked me.

I’ve blamed the FO more times than any knick fan in this forum. I blame the FO for building a team around RJ and Randle. I blame the FO for drafting a back PF at pick#8. We could’ve traded down twice and picked up a backup forward with additional picks. That was and continues to be a fail.

Personally I don’t think Randle is worth it. Randle has the personality to be a #1 option but the reality is he’s more of a #2 or #3 but thinks he’s #1. I don’t think he can adapt to being #3. Same with RJ. He thinks he’s #1 but really he’s the 3rd option on a good team right now.

But I don’t want to sound like an RJ or Randle basher. Or even thibs basher. I’m just in reality mode. Turn us into a playoff team by adding playoff talent or sell the vets and get a high pick.

If RJ and Randle is still your building block, we will always be mediocre.

This sounds like what every HS boys dad says when their kid isn't getting playing time.
They just can't wrap their heads around how the hierarchy of a team works or the fact minutes aren't just given out to those that THINK they can do better. Do not understand what accomplishments the Obi faithful think he has to deserve a longer hook over Randle?
Or how they forget that Obi shot the ball well earlier in the year and Thibs gave him more minutes and even gave him some extra ones by having Randle take some at the five. Aka, earned it. Now his shot has gone away. Bringing nothing else but dunking to the table but you think it's fair to give him extra minutes? And if you are sitting Randle for his defense (Go to for Randle bashers) you may want to start looking at Obi's defense as well. Especially against some of the bigger PFs. Thought true Knick fans were for players that were physical and not pushovers? And let's not leave out rebounding. PFs are expected to do that right?

You have mentioned many times before that you are a big Obi and Deuce fan. So am I. Just not down with bashing others just to give them a chance. Same issue I had with Frank fans. Putting players that were better than him down just cuz they wanted to be proven right. Yet ignoring that he was just not that good yet.

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I compare IQ to Starks because both guys had infectious energy off the bench. His shooting may not be there every night and it isn’t but the energy he brings coming off the bench is an intangible that other teams see and that’s why GMs have been calling us about him. We can continue to start Cam or Grimes along with RJ at the wing positions