Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Overall you have to consider Hill’s career a disappointment. In the mid 90’s he was all over magazine covers being hyped as the heir apparent to Jordan.

I lump him in with Penny Hardaway from that era. Not technically busts but the careers didn’t come close to matching the hype

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Overall you have to consider Hill’s career a disappointment. In the mid 90’s he was all over magazine covers being hyped as the heir apparent to Jordan.

I lump him in with Penny Hardaway from that era. Not technically busts but the careers didn’t come close to matching the hype

Grant Hill was 7 time all star. 6 in his first 7 years. Diluted his career by playing to age 40. Who said he was the next jordan? You?
The ankle injury took him out of about 3 seasons. That derailed him quite a bit.
Age 36 he played 82 games.

Bobby Hurley 20 games into his rookie season damn near died in a car accident. That he was able to come back and play at all was a miricle.
Laetner was drafted third after Mourning and Shaq. 3 final fours in four years and two chips Dream team wanted one college player.
Bust? Not really. Look who was drafted after. Jimmy Jackson, Walt Williams, Laphonso Ellis, Googs, Todd Day. Avg'd 17/8 fist 6 years with Minny.
Made All star team with ATL. Played on some **** teams.
Oka4 was a bust at three. Not him.
He was hyped for his looks, being white, and an amazing college career! Natural bloated expectations that would translate to NBA. For where he was drafted and who came after I'd say he did ok.

Hype is not quantifiable.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Overall you have to consider Hill’s career a disappointment. In the mid 90’s he was all over magazine covers being hyped as the heir apparent to Jordan.

I lump him in with Penny Hardaway from that era. Not technically busts but the careers didn’t come close to matching the hype

Grant Hill was 7 time all star. 6 in his first 7 years. Diluted his career by playing to age 40. Who said he was the next jordan? You?
The ankle injury took him out of about 3 seasons. That derailed him quite a bit.
Age 36 he played 82 games.

Bobby Hurley 20 games into his rookie season damn near died in a car accident. That he was able to come back and play at all was a miricle.
Laetner was drafted third after Mourning and Shaq. 3 final fours in four years and two chips Dream team wanted one college player.
Bust? Not really. Look who was drafted after. Jimmy Jackson, Walt Williams, Laphonso Ellis, Googs, Todd Day. Avg'd 17/8 fist 6 years with Minny.
Made All star team with ATL. Played on some **** teams.
Oka4 was a bust at three. Not him.
He was hyped for his looks, being white, and an amazing college career! Natural bloated expectations that would translate to NBA. For where he was drafted and who came after I'd say he did ok.

Hype is not quantifiable.

Well I’m older than 15 so I actually remember the first hand hype about Grant Hill in the mid-90’s. He made the all star team a couple times when it was voted on by fans and he had name recognition. Yay.

No one objectively thinks Grant Hill fulfilled his entire potential in the nba. Blame injuries, maybe he played in the wrong era whatever. You’re just a bloviating clown at this point upset Elf isn’t even on a roster

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

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Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Overall you have to consider Hill’s career a disappointment. In the mid 90’s he was all over magazine covers being hyped as the heir apparent to Jordan.

I lump him in with Penny Hardaway from that era. Not technically busts but the careers didn’t come close to matching the hype

Grant Hill was 7 time all star. 6 in his first 7 years. Diluted his career by playing to age 40. Who said he was the next jordan? You?
The ankle injury took him out of about 3 seasons. That derailed him quite a bit.
Age 36 he played 82 games.

Bobby Hurley 20 games into his rookie season damn near died in a car accident. That he was able to come back and play at all was a miricle.
Laetner was drafted third after Mourning and Shaq. 3 final fours in four years and two chips Dream team wanted one college player.
Bust? Not really. Look who was drafted after. Jimmy Jackson, Walt Williams, Laphonso Ellis, Googs, Todd Day. Avg'd 17/8 fist 6 years with Minny.
Made All star team with ATL. Played on some **** teams.
Oka4 was a bust at three. Not him.
He was hyped for his looks, being white, and an amazing college career! Natural bloated expectations that would translate to NBA. For where he was drafted and who came after I'd say he did ok.

Hype is not quantifiable.

Well I’m older than 15 so I actually remember the first hand hype about Grant Hill in the mid-90’s. He made the all star team a couple times when it was voted on by fans and he had name recognition. Yay.

No one objectively thinks Grant Hill fulfilled his entire potential in the nba. Blame injuries, maybe he played in the wrong era whatever. You’re just a bloviating clown at this point upset Elf isn’t even on a roster

Grant Hill made allstar teams playing for mediocre Detrot then,
IF the hype was that great he would have been drafted before Jason Kidd and "Big Dog" Robinson. He went ahead of Donyell Marshal. That draft was not that great. Kidd went two but as good as he was he lacked shooting in his fist few years. He got really good as he matured. PG develop slower than bigs in the NBA.

Act like your older then 15! Teen boys are lazy to look **** up, and stubborn to double down on a point lost. Immature teen boys like to deflect when arguing.
Really, instead of learning something you go "Elf" as your big debate point?

No player who is injured for the better part of 3 years in their absolute prime lives up to their potential.
The hype was from being on a winning program. One of the greatest shots of all time, when Laetner hit the turn around jumper to propel duke vs. Kentucky! Who through that amazing pass? Grant Hill.
Jordan out of college did not have great hype either BTW. His career was not projected as it became.

fishmike wrote:when think about the best version possible of Cam what is it? A long rangy multipositional defender who hit shots both in the half court and is a monster in the open floor. That's the version we got last night. Nobody is perfect but what we got from him on both ends of the ball was a huge plus.

A consistent shot maker and he's something between Kris Middleton and Tayshaun Prince especially playing under Thibs he's gonna defend every possession or lost his minutes. When he's missing shots you see his downside which is more Frank Ntilikina.

Fournier is an established commodity and he will get minutes. However after that when it comes to Grimes/IQ/Cam that should be a "cream rising to the top" situation and nothing more. Cam just turned 23 years old. Grimes/Reddish/IQ are all the same age. Everyone knows Cam came out too early, has self importance issues and some bad habits but he's also got the most upside of all 3 based on physical tools alone.

I think IQ ends out of rotation and Rose/Cam/Grimes/Obi/Hart are the back side of a 9-10 man rotation

Knicks certainly have a lot of different combinations team can go with.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:when think about the best version possible of Cam what is it? A long rangy multipositional defender who hit shots both in the half court and is a monster in the open floor. That's the version we got last night. Nobody is perfect but what we got from him on both ends of the ball was a huge plus.

A consistent shot maker and he's something between Kris Middleton and Tayshaun Prince especially playing under Thibs he's gonna defend every possession or lost his minutes. When he's missing shots you see his downside which is more Frank Ntilikina.

Fournier is an established commodity and he will get minutes. However after that when it comes to Grimes/IQ/Cam that should be a "cream rising to the top" situation and nothing more. Cam just turned 23 years old. Grimes/Reddish/IQ are all the same age. Everyone knows Cam came out too early, has self importance issues and some bad habits but he's also got the most upside of all 3 based on physical tools alone.

I think IQ ends out of rotation and Rose/Cam/Grimes/Obi/Hart are the back side of a 9-10 man rotation

Knicks certainly have a lot of different combinations team can go with.

I don't think that happens. Thibs likes IQ. I think ultimately a trade will need to happen to consolidate pieces.

The consolidation trade is also my thought. I think 10 games is treated as extended training camp with Grimes and IQ camp battling for minutes. After that, another 10 to see what we have. Then, between 21 and the trade deadline, we try to consolidate pieces.

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Reddish was a risk worth taking but it's still early. He hasn't earned a rotation spot but it's a long season and he will get an opportunity at some point so we'll see.

I disagree with this 'side of the debate' that 'he was worth the risk.' No, he wasn't. He was a known malcontent in Atlanta. Thibs never wanted him. There is no skill that he has that adds to depth of the team. Either by being good at something, or adding something unique to the roster. He was just drafted high, that's it

As you were saying….

Look, the debate is whether Cam was worth “the gamble.” One I call small potatoes - the useless Knox and a mid first or more likely two seconds. His performance tonight bears out the talent that is there. Not saying he will be an all star but yeah, worth the “risk.”

hey, where I'm from, throwing out small potatoes just because it suits you is wasteful and abhorrent... but maybe you come from a plae where you get everything in excess and for free

Not "worth the gamble" implies that the risks outweigh the potential benefits. When you are in the process of building / re-building would seem to make sense that to drive some success in roster assets you have to buy low and sell high. Cam and a 2nd rounder were obtained for an expiring Knox as well as what very likely may be 2 second rounders. So essentially the net will be

Knox and a 2nd Rounder for Cam.

Just not understanding how this is wasteful and abhorrent?

Alpha1971 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Reddish was a risk worth taking but it's still early. He hasn't earned a rotation spot but it's a long season and he will get an opportunity at some point so we'll see.

I disagree with this 'side of the debate' that 'he was worth the risk.' No, he wasn't. He was a known malcontent in Atlanta. Thibs never wanted him. There is no skill that he has that adds to depth of the team. Either by being good at something, or adding something unique to the roster. He was just drafted high, that's it

As you were saying….

Look, the debate is whether Cam was worth “the gamble.” One I call small potatoes - the useless Knox and a mid first or more likely two seconds. His performance tonight bears out the talent that is there. Not saying he will be an all star but yeah, worth the “risk.”

hey, where I'm from, throwing out small potatoes just because it suits you is wasteful and abhorrent... but maybe you come from a plae where you get everything in excess and for free

Not "worth the gamble" implies that the risks outweigh the potential benefits. When you are in the process of building / re-building would seem to make sense that to drive some success in roster assets you have to buy low and sell high. Cam and a 2nd rounder were obtained for an expiring Knox as well as what very likely may be 2 second rounders. So essentially the net will be

Knox and a 2nd Rounder for Cam.

Just not understanding how this is wasteful and abhorrent?

It's more of the pick that became Kai Jones, pick 19 ?, Knox for Can and a second rounder. Still worthwhile risk.

the alternative, which everyone seems to forget, was letting Knox walk for nothing because we weren't keeping him.

So- really, the question is Cam or nothing, unless you are arguing we should have kept Knox.

Alpha1971 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Reddish was a risk worth taking but it's still early. He hasn't earned a rotation spot but it's a long season and he will get an opportunity at some point so we'll see.

I disagree with this 'side of the debate' that 'he was worth the risk.' No, he wasn't. He was a known malcontent in Atlanta. Thibs never wanted him. There is no skill that he has that adds to depth of the team. Either by being good at something, or adding something unique to the roster. He was just drafted high, that's it

As you were saying….

Look, the debate is whether Cam was worth “the gamble.” One I call small potatoes - the useless Knox and a mid first or more likely two seconds. His performance tonight bears out the talent that is there. Not saying he will be an all star but yeah, worth the “risk.”

hey, where I'm from, throwing out small potatoes just because it suits you is wasteful and abhorrent... but maybe you come from a plae where you get everything in excess and for free

Not "worth the gamble" implies that the risks outweigh the potential benefits. When you are in the process of building / re-building would seem to make sense that to drive some success in roster assets you have to buy low and sell high. Cam and a 2nd rounder were obtained for an expiring Knox as well as what very likely may be 2 second rounders. So essentially the net will be

Knox and a 2nd Rounder for Cam.

Just not understanding how this is wasteful and abhorrent?

It's more of the pick that became Kai Jones, pick 19 ?, Knox for Can and a second rounder. Still worthwhile risk.

I view the trade last year with the Hornets as separate and not seeing why anyone would by tying the connected risk back to Cam. For whatever their reasons, the Knicks traded with Hornets on draft night - July 29, 2021....exchanging #19 for heavily protected future First Rounder. They did not make the trade Knox-Cam trade until Jan 2022. It was a completely separate move. Pondering the "what-if" about Kai Jones is a completely separate conversation/debate and has little to do with the risk of acquiring Cam.