Thse teams are better than us:

Celtics
Bucks
76ers
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Raptors
Heat

Bulls: If Lonzo is hurt, they could struggle.
Wizards: As a fan I have to say we are better, but they have Beal, KP and a good young roster.
Knicks: I think we in a dog fight with these two.

Magic
Hornets
Pacers
pistons.

This bottom 4 one is likely to surprise on the upside. At the same time one of the top 10 are also likely to surprise and fall.
Bulls seem ripe for this. Magic ripe to move up. Not predictions, just working the odds.

Nalod wrote:Baring a trade that clarifies the team better, the issue is not EF vs Grimes or SPacing with Randle and RJ, its the nature of things:

Thse teams are better than us:

Celtics
Bucks
76ers
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Raptors
Heat

Bulls: If Lonzo is hurt, they could struggle.
Wizards: As a fan I have to say we are better, but they have Beal, KP and a good young roster.
Knicks: I think we in a dog fight with these two.

Magic
Hornets
Pacers
pistons.

This bottom 4 one is likely to surprise on the upside. At the same time one of the top 10 are also likely to surprise and fall.
Bulls seem ripe for this. Magic ripe to move up. Not predictions, just working the odds.

I'd say we will end up 8th with 43 wins

Celts, Bucks, 76ers, Cavs, Heat - no question they are better
Nets could implode with all the offseason drama involving Kyrie, KD and Ben Simmons
Hawks - think we are much closer to Hawks but will have to wait to see how amazing D. Murray turns out to be
Raptors - def a better team until season starts but feel we could be on similar level if our team comes together, improves team defense

I'd watch out for the Pacers as the surprise team in Eastern conference this season

Nalod wrote:Baring a trade that clarifies the team better, the issue is not EF vs Grimes or SPacing with Randle and RJ, its the nature of things:

Thse teams are better than us:

Celtics
Bucks
76ers
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Raptors
Heat

Bulls: If Lonzo is hurt, they could struggle.
Wizards: As a fan I have to say we are better, but they have Beal, KP and a good young roster.
Knicks: I think we in a dog fight with these two.

Magic
Hornets
Pacers
pistons.

This bottom 4 one is likely to surprise on the upside. At the same time one of the top 10 are also likely to surprise and fall.
Bulls seem ripe for this. Magic ripe to move up. Not predictions, just working the odds.

How can you definitively say those teams are better than us?

The Nets? Sorry, with KD having requested a trade, Ben Simmons with a chronic back and Kyrie in danger of making a wrong turn and falling off the edge of earth?

The Sixers with Joel Embiid who has NEVER played more than 68 games in a season and James Harden who is going to be 33 and is just one mild upset look away from demanding another trade?

The Atlanta Hawks who only got above 500 in mid March and are one injury to Trae Young away from the lottery?

And the Cleveland Cavaliers who were 11 games over 500 at the end of February and couldn't win one of two play in games against said Hawks and Nets?

I'll never bet against the Heat, but they are overdue to come down in a hard way and with the way they drive guys hard, Butler and Lowry going to make it through an 82 game season?

I'll give you the Celtics, Bucks and Raptors as clear favorites to be better than us. Heat probably too. That gives us 6 slots to aim for- we just have to stay healthy and hope the guys can gel. And they were at the end of the year - no major revisions and just adding Brunson. I feel like we should be even money at at least be in contention in late March/April.

jskinny35 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Baring a trade that clarifies the team better, the issue is not EF vs Grimes or SPacing with Randle and RJ, its the nature of things:

Thse teams are better than us:

Celtics
Bucks
76ers
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Raptors
Heat

Bulls: If Lonzo is hurt, they could struggle.
Wizards: As a fan I have to say we are better, but they have Beal, KP and a good young roster.
Knicks: I think we in a dog fight with these two.

Magic
Hornets
Pacers
pistons.

This bottom 4 one is likely to surprise on the upside. At the same time one of the top 10 are also likely to surprise and fall.
Bulls seem ripe for this. Magic ripe to move up. Not predictions, just working the odds.

I'd say we will end up 8th with 43 wins

Celts, Bucks, 76ers, Cavs, Heat - no question they are better
Nets could implode with all the offseason drama involving Kyrie, KD and Ben Simmons
Hawks - think we are much closer to Hawks but will have to wait to see how amazing D. Murray turns out to be
Raptors - def a better team until season starts but feel we could be on similar level if our team comes together, improves team defense

I'd watch out for the Pacers as the surprise team in Eastern conference this season

Any team with KD and Irving is not "imploding"
They also have Harris back and added a couple of solid role players.
Which makes them better without needing to factor in Ben.
If he comes back (not likely) they will be favored.
Hawks are a lot better with Murray.
Bulls will be good again.
Pistons will surprise.

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Baring a trade that clarifies the team better, the issue is not EF vs Grimes or SPacing with Randle and RJ, its the nature of things:

Thse teams are better than us:

Celtics
Bucks
76ers
Nets
Cavs
Hawks
Raptors
Heat

Bulls: If Lonzo is hurt, they could struggle.
Wizards: As a fan I have to say we are better, but they have Beal, KP and a good young roster.
Knicks: I think we in a dog fight with these two.

Magic
Hornets
Pacers
pistons.

This bottom 4 one is likely to surprise on the upside. At the same time one of the top 10 are also likely to surprise and fall.
Bulls seem ripe for this. Magic ripe to move up. Not predictions, just working the odds.

How can you definitively say those teams are better than us?

The Nets? Sorry, with KD having requested a trade, Ben Simmons with a chronic back and Kyrie in danger of making a wrong turn and falling off the edge of earth?

The Sixers with Joel Embiid who has NEVER played more than 68 games in a season and James Harden who is going to be 33 and is just one mild upset look away from demanding another trade?

The Atlanta Hawks who only got above 500 in mid March and are one injury to Trae Young away from the lottery?

And the Cleveland Cavaliers who were 11 games over 500 at the end of February and couldn't win one of two play in games against said Hawks and Nets?

I'll never bet against the Heat, but they are overdue to come down in a hard way and with the way they drive guys hard, Butler and Lowry going to make it through an 82 game season?

I'll give you the Celtics, Bucks and Raptors as clear favorites to be better than us. Heat probably too. That gives us 6 slots to aim for- we just have to stay healthy and hope the guys can gel. And they were at the end of the year - no major revisions and just adding Brunson. I feel like we should be even money at at least be in contention in late March/April.

I did not say any of this is definite or a prediction. In fact what works for me is keeping it real. I really enjoyed last season. I root for all the knicks and the coaches. I watched more games last season than previous years. But by "Keeping it real" I don't get all out of whack when we lost to better teams.

I find that "HOmerism" creates a situation were many times its assumptive "Knicks lost the game" where I just watched the same game and thought "We got beat" or "we lost to a better team". Same **** really, but the homer looks to blame, makes open assumptives like "we need a better coach". Those open ended statements are irrefutable but not rooted in in reality. Might say "We need to employ coach X" but really it is all that? "We need stars". No ****.
"We need better players", again, no ****. Maybe we need more grounded fans who can be objective. For sure fans can talk all kinds of **** but never be held to anything accountable. Fans are insignificant to the running or coaching of the team.

My hope is we are really good and win a chip.

GustavBahler wrote:Kyrie might not "implode", but he might have trouble staying on the court. Which has been a problem throughout his career. Durant might still be traded during the season. He might have an agreement with ownership to not trash the FO (or coach) until a suitor is found during the season. They might move Kyrie as well, if they dont intend to bring him back. Ben Simmons, who knows what his game is going to be like next season.

I believe we can stay close to the Cavs/Hawks/Raptors/Heat if our D is back to elite. Brunson should help take pressure off the rest of the starters. Been a long time without a starting PG who could do that.

Our young players have another season of experience under their belts. It might take a few monthe for the Knicks to get into a stride, but if the defense is there, and they share the rock, good things will happen.

We need Derrick Rose to be healthy. Randle behave and play better than last year. Yes, things have to go right and things wrong with Nets, and perhaps others.
have to admit fans often are more enthusiastic each year and media be “Hating”, but more times right than not.

martin wrote:All I know is I’m rooting for Wizards to do well so that their top-16 protected 2023 draft pick transfers

This is the best take from this thread and I agree.

There’s always surprises like injuries or trades that changes the landscape in the east. Sure there’s a solid group of teams that always make it. The rest will battle it out. This team will go as far as Thibs and the FO takes them. We have talent but more importantly chemistry and players with chips on their shoulders, with something to prove:

JB (prove his contract worth)
RJ (prove end of last year wasn’t a fluke)
Randle (chasing all star Randle play)
EF (tired of all the grimes talk)
Grimes (ready to show why he shouldn’t be traded)
Rose (show he’s healthy this year)
IQ (show his Playmaker growth)
Obi (show that he’s a starter)
Mitch (pushed by the Hart signing)
Hart (hot wife and thinks he’s better than Mitch)
Cam (he’s looking for a new contract)
Deuce (thinks he’s the best 2 way PG on the team) and I agree ☝️

We already have chemistry. Our problem is we are too deep. Which impacts Thibs tight rotation style. And eventually falls on Leon Rose to provide Thibs a better team vs just a large group of solid players.
Leon is great at gathering and evaluating talent as we have seen especially in the draft. But building a solid team is a separate skill I need to see in our FO. DM potential trade not only gave us a star. To me the most important part of the non trade was fixing the rotation traffic.

We have too many mouths to feed and we are primed for a trade. So I’ll stick to my optimistic view point because we never had a team this young and this rich in solid role players and picks. It’s not about making the playoffs. It’s about continuing to grow as a team and developing these young players.

Also watch Thibs coach adjustments from last season. Leon Rose and company grow as a FO. A trade is needed for playoff sake. Player development to me is a more important barometer. I wouldn’t mind sitting all the vets, play the youths and get a high pick this year especially for the reasons Nolads pointed out. That strategy is a win win. Lie and say the vets have Covid contact every month. I was lied on at work recently but I told the truth. They said I had Covid close contact and I should stay home for a week. I wasn’t even at work that day 😆.

Just my own personal goal, until we have a team and not just a bunch of players. Develop the youth and stop with the barely making playin bullshet. Unless we make a trade. If not let cam and others play. Remove the blockers. We all know who they are. Will be fun to see how everyone develops and grow from last season.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:All I know is I’m rooting for Wizards to do well so that their top-16 protected 2023 draft pick transfers

This is the best take from this thread and I agree.

There’s always surprises like injuries or trades that changes the landscape in the east. Sure there’s a solid group of teams that always make it. The rest will battle it out. This team will go as far as Thibs and the FO takes them. We have talent but more importantly chemistry and players with chips on their shoulders, with something to prove:

JB (prove his contract worth)
RJ (prove end of last year wasn’t a fluke)
Randle (chasing all star Randle play)
EF (tired of all the grimes talk)
Grimes (ready to show why he shouldn’t be traded)
Rose (show he’s healthy this year)
IQ (show his Playmaker growth)
Obi (show that he’s a starter)
Mitch (pushed by the Hart signing)
Hart (hot wife and thinks he’s better than Mitch)
Cam (he’s looking for a new contract)
Deuce (thinks he’s the best 2 way PG on the team) and I agree ☝️

We already have chemistry. Our problem is we are too deep. Which impacts Thibs tight rotation style. And eventually falls on Leon Rose to provide Thibs a better team vs just a large group of solid players.
Leon is great at gathering and evaluating talent as we have seen especially in the draft. But building a solid team is a separate skill I need to see in our FO. DM potential trade not only gave us a star. To me the most important part of the non trade was fixing the rotation traffic.

We have too many mouths to feed and we are primed for a trade. So I’ll stick to my optimistic view point because we never had a team this young and this rich in solid role players and picks. It’s not about making the playoffs. It’s about continuing to grow as a team and developing these young players.

Also watch Thibs coach adjustments from last season. Leon Rose and company grow as a FO. A trade is needed for playoff sake. Player development to me is a more important barometer. I wouldn’t mind sitting all the vets, play the youths and get a high pick this year especially for the reasons Nolads pointed out. That strategy is a win win. Lie and say the vets have Covid contact every month. I was lied on at work recently but I told the truth. They said I had Covid close contact and I should stay home for a week. I wasn’t even at work that day 😆.

Just my own personal goal, until we have a team and not just a bunch of players. Develop the youth and stop with the barely making playin bullshet. Unless we make a trade. If not let cam and others play. Remove the blockers. We all know who they are. Will be fun to see how everyone develops and grow from last season.

With the Knicks and pretty much everywhere else, Thibs has run a 9-10 player rotation.

What do you mean by tight rotation style that differs from any other coach? Why is this particular to Thibs?

Riley had a tight rotation style. So did Van Gundy. I don't see that from Thibs with Knicks.

Not only is the team better but the way its built is going to be MUCH easier to coach this year. There arent any big rotation questions. Maybe the biggest is if Brunson/Fournier struggle defensively as starters how long before we see Grimes or Cam?

Knicks are not gonna struggle to make the play in. They are going to be a good (if not top 5) defensive team that's deep on both sides of the ball. Thibs may not be popular here which fine because the Knick fan base is dumb as phuck. The guy coaches wins and if anything the Knicks are going to overachieve like they did 2 years ago. Will likely be a first round exit as I just dont think we are there yet but that will be fun as we go from "struggle to make play in" to "does Thibs coach too hard in the regular season?" when we lose to the Celtics in the first round 4/5 series

Thibs didnt play Cam because Grimes was fantastic and when Cam did play he couldnt hit a shot (see McBride as well) but fans prefer to make up stuff like "tight rotation" which is just pure jive. He's gonna play his starters. He's gonna play Rose/IQ/Grimes/Obi/Hart and there's going to be heavy competition for minutes and that's a good thing. Tight my ass. Wait....

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kyrie might not "implode", but he might have trouble staying on the court. Which has been a problem throughout his career. Durant might still be traded during the season. He might have an agreement with ownership to not trash the FO (or coach) until a suitor is found during the season. They might move Kyrie as well, if they dont intend to bring him back. Ben Simmons, who knows what his game is going to be like next season.

I believe we can stay close to the Cavs/Hawks/Raptors/Heat if our D is back to elite. Brunson should help take pressure off the rest of the starters. Been a long time without a starting PG who could do that.

Our young players have another season of experience under their belts. It might take a few monthe for the Knicks to get into a stride, but if the defense is there, and they share the rock, good things will happen.

We need Derrick Rose to be healthy. Randle behave and play better than last year. Yes, things have to go right and things wrong with Nets, and perhaps others.
have to admit fans often are more enthusiastic each year and media be “Hating”, but more times right than not.

Van Gundy said everything has to be perfect. You just said the same thing. How many years are we going to say the same things. That’s insanity. I disagree with your take on knick fans in general. Sure there are some with open ended blabbering. But knick fans in general are the smartest fans in the nba. We are also hungry for a chip not hungry for a playin exit. Which is where we are heading once again this year, as the roster stands.

NEW YORK the leagues biggest market and fan base as original franchise is huge. Also Ex NYers like myself are all over the place. Passionate and hungrey. “Smartest”? Maybe sheer numbers gives us that. You did see the “bing Bong” Videos last season? When thedraft is held in NY the fans who come out?
And you have read PhilC’s stuff right?
Many are informed, but smart? LOL

Agreed. There is a big difference between being smart and thinking you know everything.
Knick fans think they know more than an experienced COY. They think they know more than an experienced FO. They think they know more than all the assistant coaches who give head coaches feedback. They think they know more than scouts and team draft pickers. They think they know who should start and when a rookie should play more minutes. They think they are the ones to say when you give up on a perennial high producer who just got a contract extension. They think they know when a G League stand out should be given the chance to start. They think that a franchise who was in the playoffs a year ago should start only rookies and go back to tanking. They think a third year Prez, who was brought here to win should just play unproven fan hopefuls.
Yeah , Knicks fans THINK they know more than anyone else. "Smart"? That's an oxymoron for the definition of FANS!