GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Hold on. Are we selectively ignoring that all of these wait and see people were also arguing in favor of keeping Fournier in the rotation while us "youth movement" folks were highlighting the IQ/Toppin eFG and Net Rating differentials and were looking to get McBride and Grimes more minutes. But its your wisdom that we "waited" until these last few games to make those changes?

Your argument is that "yeah we got better when we made the change, but they weren't ready until this exact moment". That's a hell of a view from those 20/20 Rearview glasses. How do you know that? Because Thibs just made the change and it worked for 4 games, it means they were now finally ready and patience won out?

I went ape**** after the Dallas blowout because I thought the team was poorly coached. Failing to make rotations. Failing to pass. Off the ball movement was terrible. Unable to stop a 41-15 run in the third - they showed no toughness. I was ready to change the coach after that fiasco. It was bad basketball. I blamed the coaching. I think Thibs would admit that it was bad basketball. But they changed after that game.

The last four games have been some of the best basketball I've watched from the Knicks in 20 years. I'm not touching that coaching argument with a 10 foot pole now. Whatever needed to click may have clicked. Let it run. But the reason I wanted to change the coach is because I thought these players could do this. Many argued that it wasn't the coach, he just needed better players which he found on his own bench.

How many would still patiently be starting Fournier as the reigning 3pt record holder? People know what they wrote.

I can't downplay that Randle has been the heart of this resurgence with his play and I wanted to trade him for cap space to make room for IQ/Toppin. I did. This Randle is the one I have been looking for. So much that I changed my "Ride with McBride. Poppin for Topping..." footer to "This is the Randle". The main change was his shot selection (which has loosened up a bit still - needs to tighten up). But this guy is playing with joy and its a pleasure to watch when he and Barrett aren't fighting each other for shots.

Spot on. There are plenty of fans in this forum, who gave me so much grief for all the things we are doing right now. Benching EF was not a favorable move by some fans. He broke John Starks 3 pt record, how can you bench the only shooter on the team? lmao. Now those same fans are very quiet. At least I come out and say, I was wrong about that or this. But no worries. Like you said, this version of Randle is good. This version of Thibs is good. When Randle and Thibs are good, RJ is now good.

When you have a rotation of guard defenders, defense is contagious. Instead of giving ALL THE PRAISE to Thibs, can we get some love to the DIG squad aka "Hot Boyz". IQ, Grimes, Deuce is the reason for RJ and Randles defensive stats to increase. That energy flows and a good team with chemistry will pick that up and ride with it. So thank you to the goon squad and this rotation will only improve over time.

Definetly some of the best basetball I've seen in a while, but I'm also a defense wins championships guy. Some in this forum will say, but we can't win if we don't score. Deuce is a prime example of that false theory. He's not a scorer, but yet with him in the lineup, I read somewhere that our point total increased (wheres the fact check police). Even if the points are the same (with or w/o Deuce), my point stands. Defense is the key and it's more important than offense. Defense can consistently cover up offensive flaws. It's really having the right balance of the 2 that really matters. All defenders or All offensive players don't work, but a balance of the 2 is key, especially when you build around 3 gunners.

Dont see it as being wrong. Fournier broke Stark's 3pt record his first season. His contract wasnt a cap killer. Some continuity with Thibs, and his teamates, might have led to continued success. Not a good look for a coach who wants vets to buy in. To bench them in favor of 1st or 2nd year players, to start the season. Unless they're playing lights out. Which the young guys werent.

After that, all bets are off.

My guess about why Fournier got off to such a rough start was his participation in the summer Euroball tournament. At EF's age, it probably didnt do him any favors. When a player fouls a lot, it often means that they're spent. Founier was fouling a lot before he got pulled. Wouldnt write him off just yet. If not here then another team. The time off might have been what he needs to get his game, and health back.

If I am trying to do anything with my posts it is to disassociate the perception of skill from volume stats and encourage people to look at deeper numbers.

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Hold on. Are we selectively ignoring that all of these wait and see people were also arguing in favor of keeping Fournier in the rotation while us "youth movement" folks were highlighting the IQ/Toppin eFG and Net Rating differentials and were looking to get McBride and Grimes more minutes. But its your wisdom that we "waited" until these last few games to make those changes?

Your argument is that "yeah we got better when we made the change, but they weren't ready until this exact moment". That's a hell of a view from those 20/20 Rearview glasses. How do you know that? Because Thibs just made the change and it worked for 4 games, it means they were now finally ready and patience won out?

I went ape**** after the Dallas blowout because I thought the team was poorly coached. Failing to make rotations. Failing to pass. Off the ball movement was terrible. Unable to stop a 41-15 run in the third - they showed no toughness. I was ready to change the coach after that fiasco. It was bad basketball. I blamed the coaching. I think Thibs would admit that it was bad basketball. But they changed after that game.

The last four games have been some of the best basketball I've watched from the Knicks in 20 years. I'm not touching that coaching argument with a 10 foot pole now. Whatever needed to click may have clicked. Let it run. But the reason I wanted to change the coach is because I thought these players could do this. Many argued that it wasn't the coach, he just needed better players which he found on his own bench.

How many would still patiently be starting Fournier as the reigning 3pt record holder? People know what they wrote.

I can't downplay that Randle has been the heart of this resurgence with his play and I wanted to trade him for cap space to make room for IQ/Toppin. I did. This Randle is the one I have been looking for. So much that I changed my "Ride with McBride. Poppin for Topping..." footer to "This is the Randle". The main change was his shot selection (which has loosened up a bit still - needs to tighten up). But this guy is playing with joy and its a pleasure to watch when he and Barrett aren't fighting each other for shots.

bold has become my argument, because it's what the coach has said over and over. Watch all the post games. Thibs will never say negative stuff about players, but he constantly talks about practice and when players practice well he expects them to play well.

He's said IQ "continues to practice well and we believe in him" when he was struggling last year
They held an extra practice for the kids last year BEFORE the regular practice to get these guys more reps.

So yes 100% my argument is the move to play the kids was calculated based on coaching and progress and not "well phuck lets try this now"

Same reason they are patient with Randle I suspect. They him far better than we do.

Your argument is a tautology. Because Thibs did it, it must be so. Look at McBrides stats from last year. Two man lineups. His Net Rating is positive with nearly all players except Randle. Don’t go deeper. Look at todays stats. They are roughly identical. What changed in the “coaching and practice” from last year to now except playing time? That’s why I think you are wrong.

I’m not asking you to admit “I was wrong about my blind faith to systemic failures and commitment to veterans despite overwhelming statistical evidence of their failures”, I’m just asking you not to be so hypocritically braggart when you say stuff like:

My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier,

Nalod wrote:If Thibs is doing a great job with the kids, he is not with is vets this year.
In the past our cupboard was bare and had to rely on Elf when nobody stepped up. Reggie was great fit on that team, and for goodness sakes we had Burkes running the point!
You think that was his preference? Being stubborn? Or Burks gave us the best chance to win?
Thibs has not done a good job with EF. We tend to look at established talent as a commodity that translates from team to team. Not always true. EF is a good player but not for Thibs. Thibs is a good coach but not for EF.
Deuce and Sims were told what would get them playing time and we have two second roudners in the rotation with a coach who put them in a position to succeed.
One can defend the “they were ready all this time” theory.
Me? I like wins and competitive ball if not. Y’all can in gold stars on each other all day long.

EF was balling for France this summer, right? I think he played really well. I agree that it's hard to see EF going out like this after playing well last season (at least shooting wise). Maybe his body just needs some time off?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1603762057295589378

Panos wrote:Knocks could possibly sweep all of December!
Remaining 8 games are:
Indiana
Golden State (minus Curry)
Toronto
Chicago (again)
Philadelphia
Dallas
Sam Antonio
Houston

Only Dallas and Philadelphia are over 500 and they are exactly the two teams we need most to beat. Philly right above us and we hold Dallas pick.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/iqfor3/status/1608667178823471104

KnickDanger wrote:And of course I'm still optimistic.

I’ll be optimistic again once RJ and Brunson are back

blkexec wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:And of course I'm still optimistic.

As bad as it looks, we still in a better place than the teams of the past, when you look at the entire picture.

We’re.500, in the playoff hunt, with some promising young players and a few solid vets. We ain’t there. Let’s see what the off-season brings us.

fwk00 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

blkexec wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:And of course I'm still optimistic.

As bad as it looks, we still in a better place than the teams of the past, when you look at the entire picture.

We’re.500, in the playoff hunt, with some promising young players and a few solid vets. We ain’t there. Let’s see what the off-season brings us.

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print ("Let’s see what the off-season brings us.");
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Brunson signing must have been a back breaker for you or does that not count?

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1608965960043753472

Now that’s optimism. Sometimes we need a reminder why we put up with those TO spin moves