https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1602670596181356548

martin wrote:Someone must have told Thibs to wake up from his slumber, defensive schemes suddenly are working again.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1602670596181356548

Having players who can guard the 3 is the defensive scheme we need. Kemba, EF, Rose, even Burks are not great 3 pt defenders.

Grimes, IQ and Deuce are great 3pt defenders. Forces others to follow.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:Someone must have told Thibs to wake up from his slumber, defensive schemes suddenly are working again.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1602670596181356548

Having players who can guard the 3 is the defensive scheme we need. Kemba, EF, Rose, even Burks are not great 3 pt defenders.

Grimes, IQ and Deuce are great 3pt defenders. Forces others to follow.

and Mitchell Robinson. Robinson has become a much more active defender. He will guard guards and spring traps. A lot of what he does doesn't even show up in the box score.

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Leave it to fish to wake up a dead horse. That discussion is dead but I see you trying to revive it. I’m on to your tricks sir. Not going for the bait this time.

Thibs and his new rotation and starting lineup is far exceeding everybody’s expectations and I’m loving it.

If we lose things that will be on Thibs:
Not keeping Rose ready
Playing Grimes too much
Not running more pick and rolls for the 6th and 7th scoring options on the team
Our defense was fools gold because teams missed good players and open shots

Any way feel free to copy paste those for later use.

Hey I'm just having fun cause you funny.

fishmike wrote:Knicks have a real identity right now and its super balanced. Play D. Own the boards. Take it to the hole. Do those things well and you will be in every game and wont need to live/die buy the 3

Randle/Brunson/RJ are all within one mpg and FGA of each other. All three are right about 33mpg and 16FGAs.
The rest of the guys are 24 or younger and ALL plus defenders: Mitch/Grimes/McBride/IHart/IQ/Sims

We are starting to win with our youth and we are looking at a really healthy draft pipeline coming up. Its wild and I am enjoying this upswing

Agree. Things are looking up. And I’m glad you get a laugh from my posts.

I don’t give thibs much credit like I used to before he came here. But I’m easily convinced and always willing to change when I see results. So far results speaks for itself. Even if we start losing, it depends on how we lose. Did we lose because thibs put in RJ and Randle, even though they did nothing but shoot bricks. At this point, with this squad and rotation. If thibs is consistent then I’m not pointing at thibs but rather the players consuming the most mins. See how efficient they are.

Some guys blame thibs for everything. That’s not me right now and wasn’t me in the past. I blamed thibs for specific example I do not want or need to go into anymore. But just like I said I like this version of Randle. I also like this version of thibs.

Now my attention is on RJ. He seems to play better when Randle is off the floor. If thibs sees what I see, and RJ is playing more with Randle on the bench. That tells me a lot of thibs and the coaching staff. Because it’s obvious by now. As we continue to win I don’t mind trying to make RJ and Randle work. But it’s been 4 years and we still having this discussion.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Knicks have a real identity right now and its super balanced. Play D. Own the boards. Take it to the hole. Do those things well and you will be in every game and wont need to live/die buy the 3

Randle/Brunson/RJ are all within one mpg and FGA of each other. All three are right about 33mpg and 16FGAs.
The rest of the guys are 24 or younger and ALL plus defenders: Mitch/Grimes/McBride/IHart/IQ/Sims

We are starting to win with our youth and we are looking at a really healthy draft pipeline coming up. Its wild and I am enjoying this upswing

Agree. Things are looking up. And I’m glad you get a laugh from my posts.

I don’t give thibs much credit like I used to before he came here. But I’m easily convinced and always willing to change when I see results. So far results speaks for itself. Even if we start losing, it depends on how we lose. Did we lose because thibs put in RJ and Randle, even though they did nothing but shoot bricks. At this point, with this squad and rotation. If thibs is consistent then I’m not pointing at thibs but rather the players consuming the most mins. See how efficient they are.

Some guys blame thibs for everything. That’s not me right now and wasn’t me in the past. I blamed thibs for specific example I do not want or need to go into anymore. But just like I said I like this version of Randle. I also like this version of thibs.

Now my attention is on RJ. He seems to play better when Randle is off the floor. If thibs sees what I see, and RJ is playing more with Randle on the bench. That tells me a lot of thibs and the coaching staff. Because it’s obvious by now. As we continue to win I don’t mind trying to make RJ and Randle work. But it’s been 4 years and we still having this discussion.

BTW... Randle is playing his fewest minutes, has his highest EFG% (as a Knick). If Thibs WERE to hold him "accountable" what would that look like?

Did you know the line up of Brunson/Grimes/Randle/Mitch/RJ is like the best in the NBA? (I know its early)

Im not worried about Randle. He's a potato head but plays hard and has shown he can change his game when other better players come in.

To be the real hope and optimism is we are giving big minutes to guys with real 2 way upside Im loving watching them play every night. IQ/McBride/Grimes/Mitch have become a real nasty squad on D
If these guys start scoring and one or all 4 (lets go with all 4) actually break out the outlook for this team really changes.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:Knicks have a real identity right now and its super balanced. Play D. Own the boards. Take it to the hole. Do those things well and you will be in every game and wont need to live/die buy the 3

Randle/Brunson/RJ are all within one mpg and FGA of each other. All three are right about 33mpg and 16FGAs.
The rest of the guys are 24 or younger and ALL plus defenders: Mitch/Grimes/McBride/IHart/IQ/Sims

We are starting to win with our youth and we are looking at a really healthy draft pipeline coming up. Its wild and I am enjoying this upswing

Agree. Things are looking up. And I’m glad you get a laugh from my posts.

I don’t give thibs much credit like I used to before he came here. But I’m easily convinced and always willing to change when I see results. So far results speaks for itself. Even if we start losing, it depends on how we lose. Did we lose because thibs put in RJ and Randle, even though they did nothing but shoot bricks. At this point, with this squad and rotation. If thibs is consistent then I’m not pointing at thibs but rather the players consuming the most mins. See how efficient they are.

Some guys blame thibs for everything. That’s not me right now and wasn’t me in the past. I blamed thibs for specific example I do not want or need to go into anymore. But just like I said I like this version of Randle. I also like this version of thibs.

Now my attention is on RJ. He seems to play better when Randle is off the floor. If thibs sees what I see, and RJ is playing more with Randle on the bench. That tells me a lot of thibs and the coaching staff. Because it’s obvious by now. As we continue to win I don’t mind trying to make RJ and Randle work. But it’s been 4 years and we still having this discussion.

this is the NBA. You have to look at roster construction. We are built around RJ/Randle/Brunson's scoring until we are not. These guys are not getting benched. They just arent. None of those 3 are getting Westbrooked.

BTW... Randle is playing his fewest minutes, has his highest EFG% (as a Knick). If Thibs WERE to hold him "accountable" what would that look like?

Did you know the line up of Brunson/Grimes/Randle/Mitch/RJ is like the best in the NBA? (I know its early)

Im not worried about Randle. He's a potato head but plays hard and has shown he can change his game when other better players come in.

To be the real hope and optimism is we are giving big minutes to guys with real 2 way upside Im loving watching them play every night. IQ/McBride/Grimes/Mitch have become a real nasty squad on D
If these guys start scoring and one or all 4 (lets go with all 4) actually break out the outlook for this team really changes.

Not worried, but concerned that Randle's "potato head" antics, have the ability to wreck a playoff run. Maybe not this season. The Knicks rely greatly on someone who apparently needs a lot of people to keep him from going off the deep end.

We've seen that movie and it ends badly. Randle's game is more in control. But he just doesnt gel with RJ. More like oil and water. RJ is younger, is showing what he can do without Randle in the game.

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Hold on. Are we selectively ignoring that all of these wait and see people were also arguing in favor of keeping Fournier in the rotation while us "youth movement" folks were highlighting the IQ/Toppin eFG and Net Rating differentials and were looking to get McBride and Grimes more minutes. But its your wisdom that we "waited" until these last few games to make those changes?

Your argument is that "yeah we got better when we made the change, but they weren't ready until this exact moment". That's a hell of a view from those 20/20 Rearview glasses. How do you know that? Because Thibs just made the change and it worked for 4 games, it means they were now finally ready and patience won out?

I went ape**** after the Dallas blowout because I thought the team was poorly coached. Failing to make rotations. Failing to pass. Off the ball movement was terrible. Unable to stop a 41-15 run in the third - they showed no toughness. I was ready to change the coach after that fiasco. It was bad basketball. I blamed the coaching. I think Thibs would admit that it was bad basketball. But they changed after that game.

The last four games have been some of the best basketball I've watched from the Knicks in 20 years. I'm not touching that coaching argument with a 10 foot pole now. Whatever needed to click may have clicked. Let it run. But the reason I wanted to change the coach is because I thought these players could do this. Many argued that it wasn't the coach, he just needed better players which he found on his own bench.

How many would still patiently be starting Fournier as the reigning 3pt record holder? People know what they wrote.

I can't downplay that Randle has been the heart of this resurgence with his play and I wanted to trade him for cap space to make room for IQ/Toppin. I did. This Randle is the one I have been looking for. So much that I changed my "Ride with McBride. Poppin for Topping..." footer to "This is the Randle". The main change was his shot selection (which has loosened up a bit still - needs to tighten up). But this guy is playing with joy and its a pleasure to watch when he and Barrett aren't fighting each other for shots.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Hold on. Are we selectively ignoring that all of these wait and see people were also arguing in favor of keeping Fournier in the rotation while us "youth movement" folks were highlighting the IQ/Toppin eFG and Net Rating differentials and were looking to get McBride and Grimes more minutes. But its your wisdom that we "waited" until these last few games to make those changes?

Your argument is that "yeah we got better when we made the change, but they weren't ready until this exact moment". That's a hell of a view from those 20/20 Rearview glasses. How do you know that? Because Thibs just made the change and it worked for 4 games, it means they were now finally ready and patience won out?

I went ape**** after the Dallas blowout because I thought the team was poorly coached. Failing to make rotations. Failing to pass. Off the ball movement was terrible. Unable to stop a 41-15 run in the third - they showed no toughness. I was ready to change the coach after that fiasco. It was bad basketball. I blamed the coaching. I think Thibs would admit that it was bad basketball. But they changed after that game.

The last four games have been some of the best basketball I've watched from the Knicks in 20 years. I'm not touching that coaching argument with a 10 foot pole now. Whatever needed to click may have clicked. Let it run. But the reason I wanted to change the coach is because I thought these players could do this. Many argued that it wasn't the coach, he just needed better players which he found on his own bench.

How many would still patiently be starting Fournier as the reigning 3pt record holder? People know what they wrote.

I can't downplay that Randle has been the heart of this resurgence with his play and I wanted to trade him for cap space to make room for IQ/Toppin. I did. This Randle is the one I have been looking for. So much that I changed my "Ride with McBride. Poppin for Topping..." footer to "This is the Randle". The main change was his shot selection (which has loosened up a bit still - needs to tighten up). But this guy is playing with joy and its a pleasure to watch when he and Barrett aren't fighting each other for shots.

Spot on. There are plenty of fans in this forum, who gave me so much grief for all the things we are doing right now. Benching EF was not a favorable move by some fans. He broke John Starks 3 pt record, how can you bench the only shooter on the team? lmao. Now those same fans are very quiet. At least I come out and say, I was wrong about that or this. But no worries. Like you said, this version of Randle is good. This version of Thibs is good. When Randle and Thibs are good, RJ is now good.

When you have a rotation of guard defenders, defense is contagious. Instead of giving ALL THE PRAISE to Thibs, can we get some love to the DIG squad aka "Hot Boyz". IQ, Grimes, Deuce is the reason for RJ and Randles defensive stats to increase. That energy flows and a good team with chemistry will pick that up and ride with it. So thank you to the goon squad and this rotation will only improve over time.

Definetly some of the best basetball I've seen in a while, but I'm also a defense wins championships guy. Some in this forum will say, but we can't win if we don't score. Deuce is a prime example of that false theory. He's not a scorer, but yet with him in the lineup, I read somewhere that our point total increased (wheres the fact check police). Even if the points are the same (with or w/o Deuce), my point stands. Defense is the key and it's more important than offense. Defense can consistently cover up offensive flaws. It's really having the right balance of the 2 that really matters. All defenders or All offensive players don't work, but a balance of the 2 is key, especially when you build around 3 gunners.

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:These are pretty strong phrases and sentences coming from a beat writer, something you don't see spoken in such an emphatic voice too often.

https://theathletic.com/3994390/2022/12/12/julius-randle-knicks-efficiency/

The Knicks might have found something.

The fivesome of Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitchell Robinson is already one of the 15 most-used lineups in the NBA and is topping opponents by an impressive 10.7 points per 100 possessions. It’s scoring almost 120 points per 100, in line with the Boston Celtics’ season-long offensive output (which, for perspective, is not just the best figure in the league this season; it’s pacing to be the best one in the history of the NBA). No Knicks starting lineup during the Thibodeau era has eviscerated opponents like this.

Knick fans have never seen growth come from patience. Its a totally foreign concept and its clear many are utterly bamboozled by this. My favorite is where fans cant grasp why Thibs didnt just play these good defensive players earlier, as if practicing and coaching means nothing. Duece going to G league, IG fight through slumps, RJ fight through slumps, Mitch flailing at first but now sailing.

I dont worry about small mistakes when the big picture is good.

Hold on. Are we selectively ignoring that all of these wait and see people were also arguing in favor of keeping Fournier in the rotation while us "youth movement" folks were highlighting the IQ/Toppin eFG and Net Rating differentials and were looking to get McBride and Grimes more minutes. But its your wisdom that we "waited" until these last few games to make those changes?

Your argument is that "yeah we got better when we made the change, but they weren't ready until this exact moment". That's a hell of a view from those 20/20 Rearview glasses. How do you know that? Because Thibs just made the change and it worked for 4 games, it means they were now finally ready and patience won out?

I went ape**** after the Dallas blowout because I thought the team was poorly coached. Failing to make rotations. Failing to pass. Off the ball movement was terrible. Unable to stop a 41-15 run in the third - they showed no toughness. I was ready to change the coach after that fiasco. It was bad basketball. I blamed the coaching. I think Thibs would admit that it was bad basketball. But they changed after that game.

The last four games have been some of the best basketball I've watched from the Knicks in 20 years. I'm not touching that coaching argument with a 10 foot pole now. Whatever needed to click may have clicked. Let it run. But the reason I wanted to change the coach is because I thought these players could do this. Many argued that it wasn't the coach, he just needed better players which he found on his own bench.

How many would still patiently be starting Fournier as the reigning 3pt record holder? People know what they wrote.

I can't downplay that Randle has been the heart of this resurgence with his play and I wanted to trade him for cap space to make room for IQ/Toppin. I did. This Randle is the one I have been looking for. So much that I changed my "Ride with McBride. Poppin for Topping..." footer to "This is the Randle". The main change was his shot selection (which has loosened up a bit still - needs to tighten up). But this guy is playing with joy and its a pleasure to watch when he and Barrett aren't fighting each other for shots.

Spot on. There are plenty of fans in this forum, who gave me so much grief for all the things we are doing right now. Benching EF was not a favorable move by some fans. He broke John Starks 3 pt record, how can you bench the only shooter on the team? lmao. Now those same fans are very quiet. At least I come out and say, I was wrong about that or this. But no worries. Like you said, this version of Randle is good. This version of Thibs is good. When Randle and Thibs are good, RJ is now good.

When you have a rotation of guard defenders, defense is contagious. Instead of giving ALL THE PRAISE to Thibs, can we get some love to the DIG squad aka "Hot Boyz". IQ, Grimes, Deuce is the reason for RJ and Randles defensive stats to increase. That energy flows and a good team with chemistry will pick that up and ride with it. So thank you to the goon squad and this rotation will only improve over time.

Definetly some of the best basetball I've seen in a while, but I'm also a defense wins championships guy. Some in this forum will say, but we can't win if we don't score. Deuce is a prime example of that false theory. He's not a scorer, but yet with him in the lineup, I read somewhere that our point total increased (wheres the fact check police). Even if the points are the same (with or w/o Deuce), my point stands. Defense is the key and it's more important than offense. Defense can consistently cover up offensive flaws. It's really having the right balance of the 2 that really matters. All defenders or All offensive players don't work, but a balance of the 2 is key, especially when you build around 3 gunners.

Dont see it as being wrong. Fournier broke Stark's 3pt record his first season. His contract wasnt a cap killer. Some continuity with Thibs, and his teamates, might have led to continued success. Not a good look for a coach who wants vets to buy in. To bench them in favor of 1st or 2nd year players, to start the season. Unless they're playing lights out. Which the young guys werent.

After that, all bets are off.

My guess about why Fournier got off to such a rough start was his participation in the summer Euroball tournament. At EF's age, it probably didnt do him any favors. When a player fouls a lot, it often means that they're spent. Founier was fouling a lot before he got pulled. Wouldnt write him off just yet. If not here then another team. The time off might have been what he needs to get his game, and health back.