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OT - Roe V Wade overturned
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foosballnick
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6/24/2022  4:52 PM
jrodmc wrote:The brilliance of killing the unwanted. That argument never fails to amaze me. Selling itself as women's rights.

How many of the dead children never got to enjoy any rights at all? Oh yeah, that's right. All of them.
But of course, it's better to get rid of something that might cause a drain on society. Like single mothers. And the elderly. And the terminally infirm. And gun owners. And any other right wing nuts.

Another thread where the power of ad hominem makes more sense to some than simple biological facts.

Want reproductive rights? Try not ****ing for fun. That goes for both sides of the act. Oh, but that doesn't fit today's societal moral code.

Better to spend time and tax money teaching kindergartners how to **** properly and cross-dress.

The fact that you appear to be against "****ing for fun" pretty much tells us all why you are so angry/snarky on this board all the time.

Ps....kindergartners are not taught to cross-dress. They may be taught to be accepting of those who cross dress. Perhaps you are the one with a problem and are not accepting of people who don't fit in your own social moral code.

AUTOADVERT
foosballnick
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6/24/2022  4:53 PM
dwiley20 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:great day for America....yall are murderers...plain n simple

I always thought you were a few cards short.. I always wondered how the product of incest would feel during discussion

you can try to justify murder all u want....the simple to the most extreme....im happy i wasnt aborted

I'm assuming that means you're taking care of all those unwanted babies.

KnickDanger
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6/24/2022  5:12 PM
It's one thing to go off with a rigid, one sided, simple minded view on say Frank. Quite another on this topic. I see no profit in discussing this with the kind of folks who want to fire the front office when they trade one first rounder for three plus cap relief. I'll go elsewhere on this one.
Welpee
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6/24/2022  5:34 PM
dwiley20 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:great day for America....yall are murderers...plain n simple

I always thought you were a few cards short.. I always wondered how the product of incest would feel during discussion

you can try to justify murder all u want....the simple to the most extreme....im happy i wasnt aborted

I understand the benefit of using sensation language (murder, killing babies, etc.) to advance an agenda. In my opinion, there is a point in a pregnancy where nobody can deny that there's human being in the womb. However, I also don't think anybody can deny that the perspective that there's a human in the womb at the time of conception is a religious point of view.

I have a problem imposing my religious beliefs on others. While I do think the window for allowing abortions should be a lot more narrow than it was, I also believe there's a window during the early stages of the pregnancy where calling it "murder" is a religious and not scientific perspective. Where those lines are drawn, I don't know. My faith may answer that for me, doesn't mean it should answer it for everybody.

I don't know anybody who had an abortion where it wasn't a difficult and gut wrenching decision. Regardless of where you stand on the issue, the language used by people who oppose abortion towards people who have had to make this difficult decision is sad. Nobody I know is in favor of abortions, they are in favor of allowing people the opportunity to make this difficult decision based on their own beliefs and situation.

Reducing this is name calling and inflammatory language reflects poorly on all of us. Just my opinion.

martin
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6/24/2022  5:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/24/2022  5:39 PM
Welpee wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:great day for America....yall are murderers...plain n simple

I always thought you were a few cards short.. I always wondered how the product of incest would feel during discussion

you can try to justify murder all u want....the simple to the most extreme....im happy i wasnt aborted

I understand the benefit of using sensation language (murder, killing babies, etc.) to advance an agenda. In my opinion, there is a point in a pregnancy where nobody can deny that there's human being in the womb. However, I also don't think anybody can deny that the perspective that there's a human in the womb at the time of conception is a religious point of view.

I have a problem imposing my religious beliefs on others. While I do think the window for allowing abortions should be a lot more narrow than it was, I also believe there's a window during the early stages of the pregnancy where calling it "murder" is a religious and not scientific perspective. Where those lines are drawn, I don't know. My faith may answer that for me, doesn't mean it should answer it for everybody.

I don't know anybody who had an abortion where it wasn't a difficult and gut wrenching decision. Regardless of where you stand on the issue, the language used by people who oppose abortion towards people who have had to make this difficult decision is sad. Nobody I know is in favor of abortions, they are in favor of allowing people the opportunity to make this difficult decision based on their own beliefs and situation.

Reducing this is name calling and inflammatory language reflects poorly on all of us. Just my opinion.

+100 well said, thanks. much better than I could have said by a huge country mile

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gradyandrew
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6/24/2022  7:48 PM
I'll say this, even in China where it's completely legal and non religious it's a gut wrenching decision that 20 years later women don't get over. Adding bureaucratic hastle is inhumane.
CashMoney
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6/24/2022  9:21 PM
I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
Papabear
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6/24/2022  9:39 PM
Papabear Says

The NBA will now have to really dish out rubber (aka) Trojans now because you know how those basketball players are. They will have babies all over the place.

Papabear
BigDaddyG
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6/24/2022  9:44 PM
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CashMoney
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6/24/2022  10:20 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
BigDaddyG
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6/24/2022  10:41 PM
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?


When consciousness arrives? That's pretty broad. Under that definition, that means I'm committing mass murder every night I have the energy and wherewithall to last 5 minutes on pornhub. Am I committing murder every time I use a rubber or decide to go no fap? Is a woman committing a murder when she uses an IUD?I agree, it'd be nice if more people to personal responsibility. It also be nice if people, me included, spent less time arguing over maddening front office moves made by a NY basketball front office and more time forging interpersonal relationships with there neighbors, even if most of them are clueless and spend too much time minding other people's business. But I'm not the arbiter of moral guidelines. And I sure as heck don't have the right to dictate what people to do their bodies based on a concept.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
MaTT4281
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6/24/2022  10:59 PM
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?

This is carrying a seriously condescending tone. The woman should face consequences for "her action"? My wife and I are trying very hard to conceive right now. Closing in on a year without luck. If this happens for us, there is absolutely zero part of us that WANT an abortion.

But if we found out there were complications, if my wife's life was at risk by carrying to term, I'm supposed to look at her and say "Hey, you knew what you were getting into when you let me do that to you. YOU should have been more careful." ?

Abortions aren't just there because Jane Doe's out there getting it every weekend and can't be bothered to use contraceptives.

If you don't care when consciousness takes over, hope you've never rubbed one out solo, that could have been several lives wasted in that sock.

Btw, DWI attorneys are a thing. They're there to make sure someone who got pulled over after a beer and didn't kill anyone doesn't have to face a life sentence (or at least 18 years).

CashMoney
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6/24/2022  11:00 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?


When consciousness arrives? That's pretty broad. Under that definition, that means I'm committing mass murder every night I have the energy and wherewithall to last 5 minutes on pornhub. Am I committing murder every time I use a rubber or decide to go no fap? Is a woman committing a murder when she uses an IUD?I agree, it'd be nice if more people to personal responsibility. It also be nice if people, me included, spent less time arguing over maddening front office moves made by a NY basketball front office and more time forging interpersonal relationships with there neighbors, even if most of them are clueless and spend too much time minding other people's business. But I'm not the arbiter of moral guidelines. And I sure as heck don't have the right to dictate what people to do their bodies based on a concept.

Contraception isn't murder because using contraceptives more often than not prevents fertilization.

If a guy has a weak pull-out game and spews and it doesn't result in a pregnancy that also isn't murder because fertilization didn't occur.

Society dictates morality and society states that murder is immoral.

Under current law, a child can be aborted up to 24 weeks/5 months in the womb. A child born prematurely can survive outside of the womb at that age.

If a woman had the intention to carry the child to term and the child was born prematurely at five months old would it be moral to allow the woman to suffocate the child to death?

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
BigDaddyG
Posts: 32972
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6/24/2022  11:30 PM
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?


When consciousness arrives? That's pretty broad. Under that definition, that means I'm committing mass murder every night I have the energy and wherewithall to last 5 minutes on pornhub. Am I committing murder every time I use a rubber or decide to go no fap? Is a woman committing a murder when she uses an IUD?I agree, it'd be nice if more people to personal responsibility. It also be nice if people, me included, spent less time arguing over maddening front office moves made by a NY basketball front office and more time forging interpersonal relationships with there neighbors, even if most of them are clueless and spend too much time minding other people's business. But I'm not the arbiter of moral guidelines. And I sure as heck don't have the right to dictate what people to do their bodies based on a concept.

Contraception isn't murder because using contraceptives more often than not prevents fertilization.

If a guy has a weak pull-out game and spews and it doesn't result in a pregnancy that also isn't murder because fertilization didn't occur.

Society dictates morality and society states that murder is immoral.

Under current law, a child can be aborted up to 24 weeks/5 months in the womb. A child born prematurely can survive outside of the womb at that age.

If a woman had the intention to carry the child to term and the child was born prematurely at five months old would it be moral to allow the woman to suffocate the child to death?

So fertilization is the point you feel life begins? Is it murder to remove a cancerous tumor? It's technically living under that standard. If the argument is when life begins and at what point abortions should become legal, that's a different argument. Laws are all over the place and in some places the cutoff is 6 weeks, which I feel is nonsense. Everyone agrees murder is bad. But I don't consider fertilization life and the science, as far we can see at this point, doesn't either. Also, what about pregnancies resulting from rape or leading to death. Doesn't the mother have the choice to look after her own well-being? What if it's the pregnancy not only was the result of rape, but it was the rape of a minor? That child deserves to be forced to carry forth that "life" ? A person has a right to do what they want to their body. Yes, you could choose to drive home drunk and yes you would have to face the consequences if something happened. That's different from an abortion because DWI has and impact on the people around you. You're actively jeopardizing the rights of other people to live freely and safely. Abortion, on the other hand, is a personal choice that's really none of our businesses.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
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6/24/2022  11:47 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?

This is carrying a seriously condescending tone. The woman should face consequences for "her action"? My wife and I are trying very hard to conceive right now. Closing in on a year without luck. If this happens for us, there is absolutely zero part of us that WANT an abortion.

But if we found out there were complications, if my wife's life was at risk by carrying to term, I'm supposed to look at her and say "Hey, you knew what you were getting into when you let me do that to you. YOU should have been more careful." ?

Abortions aren't just there because Jane Doe's out there getting it every weekend and can't be bothered to use contraceptives.

If you don't care when consciousness takes over, hope you've never rubbed one out solo, that could have been several lives wasted in that sock.

Btw, DWI attorneys are a thing. They're there to make sure someone who got pulled over after a beer and didn't kill anyone doesn't have to face a life sentence (or at least 18 years).

I understand how you read my words and feel that I came off as condescending but that wasn't my intention.

Scenarios such as your wife bringing a child to term when the potential exists that it ends her life is where the topic often goes sideways.

I believe that a woman absolutely has the right to abort a pregnancy if that pregnancy can result in her death but this isn't the subject but rather a scenario.

I ruined over half my sock drawer when I hit puberty but I didn't kill any children because my swimmers had nowhere to swim. I've had times in my life where my pull-out game was weak and thankfully I didn't knock anyone up. I didn't commit murder when my swimmers didn't get the job done. Masturbating and contraception isn't murder but purposely terminating a pregnancy is murder when no threat of death to the woman exists.

Bringing a child into this world is a privilege and not something everyone can achieve.

You and your wife have been trying for close to a year. My wife and I tried for over six months and when we stopped trying and weren't safe is when it happened. I truly and sincerely hope that you will be successful in your effort.

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martin
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6/25/2022  12:01 AM
This is reality in one state. Today.

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wargames
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6/25/2022  12:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2022  12:14 AM
I’m liberal and I’m catholic. I am getting messages on both sides of this debate, and I keep thinking… this is only going to get worst. The SC has been radicalized and eventually everyone is going to get screwed.

These same idiot are allowing concealed gun licenses in NYC and attacked Miranda rights. I think in the end we’re going to see some sort of term limit placed on them. Idk… conservatives always like to act tough like Jan 6, but the real noise came earlier during the Floyd protests. Making liberals mad doesn’t help conservatives it just seems like they forgot that.

CashMoney
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6/25/2022  12:12 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CashMoney wrote:I know this is a touchy subject but IMO abortion is and always has been murder.

Believe it or not, a woman becoming pregnant is not the easiest of occurrences. Timing is paramount in order to conceive and perhaps it will make people more responsible for their actions.

I've knocked up one woman in my life and it was on purpose. We planned on having our child and it took months of timing and trying in order to get the job done. It's not by some miracle that I impregnated my wife once and only once in 20 years of marriage. If anyone would like to be a smartass my sex life is great and I get laid whenever I want.

My wife had a friend who had 4 abortions after becoming pregnant by the same guy. A logical person would have smartened up after the 1st time but nope. They kept doing what they did knowing what could happen but it was okay because sex was better without precaution.

A woman is a carrier of life and that is a fact. Being a woman comes with that responsibility.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to conceive but it is easy to act reckless and 'get rid' of aka murder a child.

I'm happy to have a rational discussion on this topic if anyone would like to have a rational discussion.

When do you feel life begins? Take religion out of it. When do you believe a fetus has consciousness. I don't believe life starts in the first trimester and the science really hasn't been there to convince me otherwise. A woman should have "the choice" of whether she wants to be a carrier of life. It's not up to me, or you whoever to legislate that.

I'm not religious at all and I believe life begins at fertilization.

I give no thought to when a fetus has consciousness because consciousness is a state in which the unborn will eventually arrive.

Regardless of when the fetus arrives at consciousness, it doesn't change that consciousness will be achieved if termination doesn't occur.

A woman is a carrier of life and it's not by choice because it's biological.

When engaging in sexual intercourse the possibility exists that fertilization can occur. An unwanted/unexpected pregnancy doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy occurred because the possibility always existed although unlikely and not anticipated. The choice was made to engage in sexual intercourse.

If I were to choose to leave my home tonight and drive around drunk I may not expect to get pulled over and arrested. If I choose to drive drunk, get pulled over, and arrested I won't be able to erase my decision. I would need to live with the consequences of my action.

A best-case scenario is that I don't get pulled over and arrive home safely. A worst-case scenario is that I kill someone because of my decision but in either scenario, I cannot erase the decision I made or the outcome.

Why should a woman be given "the choice" to erase a consequence of her action especially when the choice results in eliminating life?


When consciousness arrives? That's pretty broad. Under that definition, that means I'm committing mass murder every night I have the energy and wherewithall to last 5 minutes on pornhub. Am I committing murder every time I use a rubber or decide to go no fap? Is a woman committing a murder when she uses an IUD?I agree, it'd be nice if more people to personal responsibility. It also be nice if people, me included, spent less time arguing over maddening front office moves made by a NY basketball front office and more time forging interpersonal relationships with there neighbors, even if most of them are clueless and spend too much time minding other people's business. But I'm not the arbiter of moral guidelines. And I sure as heck don't have the right to dictate what people to do their bodies based on a concept.

Contraception isn't murder because using contraceptives more often than not prevents fertilization.

If a guy has a weak pull-out game and spews and it doesn't result in a pregnancy that also isn't murder because fertilization didn't occur.

Society dictates morality and society states that murder is immoral.

Under current law, a child can be aborted up to 24 weeks/5 months in the womb. A child born prematurely can survive outside of the womb at that age.

If a woman had the intention to carry the child to term and the child was born prematurely at five months old would it be moral to allow the woman to suffocate the child to death?

So fertilization is the point you feel life begins? Is it murder to remove a cancerous tumor? It's technically living under that standard. If the argument is when life begins and at what point abortions should become legal, that's a different argument. Laws are all over the place and in some places the cutoff is 6 weeks, which I feel is nonsense. Everyone agrees murder is bad. But I don't consider fertilization life and the science, as far we can see at this point, doesn't either. Also, what about pregnancies resulting from rape or leading to death. Doesn't the mother have the choice to look after her own well-being? What if it's the pregnancy not only was the result of rape, but it was the rape of a minor? That child deserves to be forced to carry forth that "life" ? A person has a right to do what they want to their body. Yes, you could choose to drive home drunk and yes you would have to face the consequences if something happened. That's different from an abortion because DWI has and impact on the people around you. You're actively jeopardizing the rights of other people to live freely and safely. Abortion, on the other hand, is a personal choice that's really none of our businesses.

You're providing scenarios that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. If a woman is raped she didn't agree to have sexual intercourse she shouldn't be held liable for a consequence of an action she didn't choose and had no control over. If bringing a child to term can result in the death of the mother and child then by all means the woman should have the right to choose her life over her death.

Abortion doesn't have an impact on people around them? How many children could have been born who may have had a profound impact on society? It's a question that can't be answered because those children were put to death. Us Knicks fans could be celebrating 5 championships in a row if not for abortion.

Sorry, but I won't ever agree that murder is acceptable.


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CashMoney
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6/25/2022  12:16 AM
martin wrote:This is reality in one state. Today.

I personally think it's insane but it's a state issue and would like to think that rational and logical thinking/reasoning will prevail.

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wargames
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6/25/2022  12:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2022  12:19 AM
CashMoney wrote:
martin wrote:This is reality in one state. Today.

I personally think it's insane but it's a state issue and would like to think that rational and logical thinking/reasoning will prevail.

That’s bull**** because they just took away the states right to regulate gun licenses…

You can’t waive this away as a state issue the Supreme Court is a radical body and they are making choices based on their politics with no legal standing.

OT - Roe V Wade overturned

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