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OT - Roe V Wade overturned
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TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
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Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

7/4/2022  7:58 PM
Marv wrote:well i do have to admit you were right about one thing. you warned that we’d be subject to repetitive banal unintelligent partisan drivel if we opened up this board to political topics



https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/the-abortion-extremist-080013


Obama the abortion extremist


Obama opposed the 'Born Alive Infants Protection Act' three times....From a strictly down-the-middle, neutral perspective, if one side of a debate is “extreme,” the opposite and countervailing side is equally “extreme.” It would never even occur to the media to apply this standard to abortion. Under the guise of upholding abortion rights, Barack Obama could favor denying legal protection to babies after they are born and the press wouldn’t bat an eyelash. In fact—he did....

....In the Illinois legislature, he opposed the “Born-Alive Infants Protection Act” three times. The bill recognized babies born after attempted abortions as persons and required doctors to give them care. Obama’s stalwart opposition to the bill came up during the 2008 campaign, and his team responded with a farrago of obfuscation and distortions.....The bill was supposedly redundant. Except it wasn’t. Protections for infants who survived abortions were shot through with loopholes, which is why the bill was offered in the first place. (Abortion doctors were leaving infants to die without any care.) The bill was supposedly a threat to abortion rights. Except it wasn’t. Obama opposed a version that stipulated it didn’t affect the legal status of infants still in the womb....

About a year after his final vote against the bill, Obama gave his famous 2004 Democratic convention speech extolling post-partisan moderation. But he couldn’t even bring himself to protect infants brutalized and utterly alone in some medical facility taking what might be only a few fragile breaths on this Earth. Some moderation. The federal version of the bill that he opposed in Illinois passed the U.S. Senate unanimously. Some post-partisanship.

President Obama is an extremist on abortion. He has never supported any meaningful restriction on it, and never will....He opposed a partial-birth abortion bill in Illinois, even as the federal version passed the House with 282 votes and the Senate with 64 votes and was signed into law by President Bush in 2003. He arrived in the U.S. Senate in time to denounce the Supreme Court’s ruling upholding the ban....In 2007, he told the Planned Parenthood Action Fund that his first act as president would be signing the Freedom of Choice Act. The act would enshrine in federal law a right to abortion more far-reaching than in Roe v. Wade and eliminate basically all federal and state-level restrictions on abortion. This isn’t a point its supporters contest; it’s one they brag about. The National Organization for Women says it would “sweep away hundreds of anti-abortion laws [and] policies.....”

....In May, a bi-partisan majority of the House, including 20 Democrats, voted to ban abortion for the purpose of sex selection. As the National Right to Life Committee noted, it didn’t occur to reporters to ask the White House about the president’s position on the legislation.....A White House spokeswoman said: “The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.” In other words, gender-based discrimination is OK—so long as it results in an abortion......

......The real gap is by education and religion. Sixty percent of non-religious people call themselves “pro-choice,” and fifty-eight percent of post-graduates do. The fight over abortion is likelier to resonate with these voters than with women per se. But the “war on secular post-graduates” just doesn’t have the same ring....He is as serious about discouraging abortion as he was about opposing gay marriage up until a few months ago. Which is to say laughably disingenuous. How many other things does the president want to discourage but not restrict in any fashion and to fund with federal dollars?


So Obama didn't just have the opportunity, and the majorities he needed to codify Roe into federal law. And he didn't just lie about making FOCA his first legislative priority. He also voted to make sure that if there was a botched abortion, that the medical staff in place would be legally obligated to walk away. Just leave the fetus/infant there to die a slow agonizing death.

The majority of voters polled aren't down with that ****. The majority of voters want abortions only widely accessible in the first trimester. Beyond that, they want there to be a legitimate medical reason/health care reason/safety of the mother issue in play.

Of course Obama doing all this bull**** raises the other issue - That he flip flopped on gay marriage.

One of you will start shouting that no one here is talking about gay marriage, but if we are talking about Roe being overturned, we are also talking about lots of Democrats shouting, at this very moment, that Obergefell v Hodges ( gay marriage) will be overturned too as a consequence of Roe being overturned. Obama also had an opportunity to put that into federal law with his super majority.

Obama lied to your faces, all of you liberals here, then did nothing about abortion rights. And we are going to pretend he was also, at one point, more than OK with opposing gay marriage. You want to keep talking about freedom of choice here?

And before someone starts throwing some **** on a wall, I don't have any problem with gay marriage. Personally I think all marriage is an insane idea to get financially and emotionally ****ed over, no matter who sleeps in your bed at night. But I'm not going to stop anyone from doing it. I'm not going to make myself responsible for someone else's bad life decisions. And that's everyone. Straight, gay, man, woman, young, old, black, white, bisexual, panda, lemur, it's all the same to me.

What's partisan here? All of you know the GOP and the Republican Party were going to go after Roe and abortion laws. All of you. It's not like it's some surprise. It's not like the GOP tried to hide that **** either. Republicans were upfront about what they wanted and what they were going to do. This wasn't some ambush here. But what you don't like hearing is your own Party, people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and all the rest were equally ****ing you over.

This could have been real damn simple. What do the majority of Americans polled actually want regarding abortion? Then offer that. Democrats should have offered that. Something reasonable and in line with how most people feel about it. That also means don't try to have botched abortions turn into a ****ing horror show as some fetus/infant chokes to death on it's own blood as it's abandoned on some cold ass metal table. I'm OK with abortions, and I'm OK with gay marriage, but that's some grim **** there. That's some cold ass ruthless fallback on how things should go. But maybe you feel different about it.

See all you have left is to insult me. Go ahead, like that's ever stopped me before. People have been insulting me on this forum for a decade. And guess what? My basketball analysis is still ****ing aces anyway. All I have to do is actually talk about the topic at hand and point out the hypocrisy and provide good information on the subject matter.

AUTOADVERT
gradyandrew
Posts: 20949
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Joined: 5/19/2021
Member: #8959

7/4/2022  8:15 PM
I'd never seen the country more united than when Obama won and he dropped the ball because at the end of the day it was about lining up the big donors for his reelection.

Republicans are an ideological party while the Dems are a collection of special interests. They usually let the Republicans frame the debate.

Catholics are the ultimate swing constituency and the Republicans found an issue they support and will vote on regardless of anything else. I think 6/9 SC justices are Catholic while just 22% of the population is.

You can put a Catholic on the supreme Court but you can't put an evangelical.

martin
Posts: 58638
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/4/2022  8:19 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Marv wrote:well i do have to admit you were right about one thing. you warned that we’d be subject to repetitive banal unintelligent partisan drivel if we opened up this board to political topics



https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/the-abortion-extremist-080013


Obama the abortion extremist


Obama opposed the 'Born Alive Infants Protection Act' three times....From a strictly down-the-middle, neutral perspective, if one side of a debate is “extreme,” the opposite and countervailing side is equally “extreme.” It would never even occur to the media to apply this standard to abortion. Under the guise of upholding abortion rights, Barack Obama could favor denying legal protection to babies after they are born and the press wouldn’t bat an eyelash. In fact—he did....

....In the Illinois legislature, he opposed the “Born-Alive Infants Protection Act” three times. The bill recognized babies born after attempted abortions as persons and required doctors to give them care. Obama’s stalwart opposition to the bill came up during the 2008 campaign, and his team responded with a farrago of obfuscation and distortions.....The bill was supposedly redundant. Except it wasn’t. Protections for infants who survived abortions were shot through with loopholes, which is why the bill was offered in the first place. (Abortion doctors were leaving infants to die without any care.) The bill was supposedly a threat to abortion rights. Except it wasn’t. Obama opposed a version that stipulated it didn’t affect the legal status of infants still in the womb....

About a year after his final vote against the bill, Obama gave his famous 2004 Democratic convention speech extolling post-partisan moderation. But he couldn’t even bring himself to protect infants brutalized and utterly alone in some medical facility taking what might be only a few fragile breaths on this Earth. Some moderation. The federal version of the bill that he opposed in Illinois passed the U.S. Senate unanimously. Some post-partisanship.

President Obama is an extremist on abortion. He has never supported any meaningful restriction on it, and never will....He opposed a partial-birth abortion bill in Illinois, even as the federal version passed the House with 282 votes and the Senate with 64 votes and was signed into law by President Bush in 2003. He arrived in the U.S. Senate in time to denounce the Supreme Court’s ruling upholding the ban....In 2007, he told the Planned Parenthood Action Fund that his first act as president would be signing the Freedom of Choice Act. The act would enshrine in federal law a right to abortion more far-reaching than in Roe v. Wade and eliminate basically all federal and state-level restrictions on abortion. This isn’t a point its supporters contest; it’s one they brag about. The National Organization for Women says it would “sweep away hundreds of anti-abortion laws [and] policies.....”

....In May, a bi-partisan majority of the House, including 20 Democrats, voted to ban abortion for the purpose of sex selection. As the National Right to Life Committee noted, it didn’t occur to reporters to ask the White House about the president’s position on the legislation.....A White House spokeswoman said: “The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.” In other words, gender-based discrimination is OK—so long as it results in an abortion......

......The real gap is by education and religion. Sixty percent of non-religious people call themselves “pro-choice,” and fifty-eight percent of post-graduates do. The fight over abortion is likelier to resonate with these voters than with women per se. But the “war on secular post-graduates” just doesn’t have the same ring....He is as serious about discouraging abortion as he was about opposing gay marriage up until a few months ago. Which is to say laughably disingenuous. How many other things does the president want to discourage but not restrict in any fashion and to fund with federal dollars?


So Obama didn't just have the opportunity, and the majorities he needed to codify Roe into federal law. And he didn't just lie about making FOCA his first legislative priority. He also voted to make sure that if there was a botched abortion, that the medical staff in place would be legally obligated to walk away. Just leave the fetus/infant there to die a slow agonizing death.

The majority of voters polled aren't down with that ****. The majority of voters want abortions only widely accessible in the first trimester. Beyond that, they want there to be a legitimate medical reason/health care reason/safety of the mother issue in play.

Of course Obama doing all this bull**** raises the other issue - That he flip flopped on gay marriage.

One of you will start shouting that no one here is talking about gay marriage, but if we are talking about Roe being overturned, we are also talking about lots of Democrats shouting, at this very moment, that Obergefell v Hodges ( gay marriage) will be overturned too as a consequence of Roe being overturned. Obama also had an opportunity to put that into federal law with his super majority.

Obama lied to your faces, all of you liberals here, then did nothing about abortion rights. And we are going to pretend he was also, at one point, more than OK with opposing gay marriage. You want to keep talking about freedom of choice here?

And before someone starts throwing some **** on a wall, I don't have any problem with gay marriage. Personally I think all marriage is an insane idea to get financially and emotionally ****ed over, no matter who sleeps in your bed at night. But I'm not going to stop anyone from doing it. I'm not going to make myself responsible for someone else's bad life decisions. And that's everyone. Straight, gay, man, woman, young, old, black, white, bisexual, panda, lemur, it's all the same to me.

What's partisan here? All of you know the GOP and the Republican Party were going to go after Roe and abortion laws. All of you. It's not like it's some surprise. It's not like the GOP tried to hide that **** either. Republicans were upfront about what they wanted and what they were going to do. This wasn't some ambush here. But what you don't like hearing is your own Party, people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and all the rest were equally ****ing you over.

This could have been real damn simple. What do the majority of Americans polled actually want regarding abortion? Then offer that. Democrats should have offered that. Something reasonable and in line with how most people feel about it. That also means don't try to have botched abortions turn into a ****ing horror show as some fetus/infant chokes to death on it's own blood as it's abandoned on some cold ass metal table. I'm OK with abortions, and I'm OK with gay marriage, but that's some grim **** there. That's some cold ass ruthless fallback on how things should go. But maybe you feel different about it.

See all you have left is to insult me. Go ahead, like that's ever stopped me before. People have been insulting me on this forum for a decade. And guess what? My basketball analysis is still ****ing aces anyway. All I have to do is actually talk about the topic at hand and point out the hypocrisy and provide good information on the subject matter.

No thanks man. Time for you to move on from this thread.

Your level of thinking is unremarkable to unintelligible and your grasp of base level information here low; repeating the same over and over doesn’t actually make it any more true, just shows how literally limited you are. You are not informative.

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GustavBahler
Posts: 38500
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7/5/2022  1:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/5/2022  1:52 AM
About 10 years ago on this board I wrote that the US was headed for a nasty breakup in 10-15 years.

Decisions like these are making it true. Wether you agree with this recent supreme court ruling or not.

Alpha1971
Posts: 20050
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Joined: 1/17/2022
Member: #9006

7/5/2022  9:23 AM
My two cents as a person who was once an American conservative pro life former Democrat. First when I was pro life my interest was to gently make a case for a woman to have the child but not force them for them. Believe it or not at one time I belonged to a small group of pro life Catholics that would meet quietly at around and 5am near an abortion clinic to say a 5 minute prayer for the mother and unborn purposely not to embarrass or intimidate anyone. Prayer should not to be a weapon or a show it should be private and earnest. We prayed for the health and prosperity of the mother and for the child what ever happens we left it to God. I eventually decided it's best to leave it to mother and God. It's non of my business after all. Politically I have left conservatism as I examined that they have no ideas other then to cut taxes as the solution for everything and to fight culture war to pit people against each other and the Republican Party I knew once no longer has any serious leadership able to compromise. Not saying Democrats are perfect but it's better. Sad thing this Supreme Court fiasco is the fault of childish liberals who suppressed the vote for Hilary Clinton by their stance against her and for those in the Green Party. Those purist liberals and green party folks who couldn't see beyond their issue at the time have their arch enemies on the ultra right this Supreme court. Ultimately it was the ultra left that wrapped this Supreme court over to the conservatives
Jmpasq
Posts: 25047
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Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

7/8/2022  9:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2022  9:38 AM
A Texas cancer survivor who suffered three miscarriages was banned from aborting a longed-for pregnancy in her home state on discovering the fetus was too disabled to survive.

Kailee DeSpain, 28, and her husband were forced to make a 10 hour trip to New Mexico in February after a 16 week scan revealed their son Finley had an unsurvivable condition called triploidy.

Carrying the pregnancy to full-term would have put DeSpain at risk of potentially fatal complications, but Texas's so-called heartbeat abortion bill bans almost all abortions except for those vaguely defined as 'medical emergencies.'

Way to go Texas. If Republicans get their way and ban abortion in the US. These woman will die.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
OT - Roe V Wade overturned

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