Uptown wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

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“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

A franchise that "gets it"! Silas, the head coach said, "Hopefully, that leads to wins, but development is the priority." I've been saying this for years. But, over the years, we have been more concerned with being somewhat relevant (bottom-middle) as opposed to tearing this thing, slowly building the foundation so it can support consistent winning in the future, and prioritizing development before all else.

3 & 4 seasons ago the Knicks were terrible two years in a row (17 and 21 wins) and dwelling at or near the very bottom. Just did not get lucky with the ping pong balls as well as be terrible going into the correct draft. There are no guarantees with tanking.

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foosballnick wrote:NBA TV Mock has us taking Malaki Branham at 11.

Don't do this to me. I'm in the process of talking myself into AJ Griffin.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

I agree with you and ask the same question. What if IQ is that guy? Lets just say Ivey is a NBA Star....What if IQ is close to being an NBA Star? Would that still be a fair trade? What if we could trade up and get Sharpe while keeping IQ? What if Sharpe has the same impact as Ivey and he also becomes an NBA star?

I understand the hype with Ivey but I also understand there are several players in this draft who will turnout to be studs. Ivey isn't the only stud that will come out of the 2022 draft.

And IQ is the engine. Take IQ out and replace with Ivey sounds like a nice engine replacement. I said the same thing when I purchased a bmw 550i. It was great for a year, but I traded it in for a honda civic. You can have a great player but he may or may not be a great fit. We know IQ is a great fit and his chemistry makes Obi and others shine.

Just something to think about. Unless Ivey is a show fire Lebron or Kobe type player. If not, it's a risk. I like the trade up idea, but I don't like losing IQ. I'm with Fish, I rather lose Grimes than IQ.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

I have not watched Ivey, just highlights. But if you believe he's the real deal, than you gotta trade IQ. Wow, the FO is in a tough spot.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

It's not just IQ tho. It's IQ, plus, picks and whatever else. I think Ivey will be good in time, but how good? I don't see Ja. The handle, floater package and PnR manipulation aren't close to where Ja was at on the same level. What level do you see Ivey reaching? I see borderline All Star.

It seems like forever since I’ve been kicked squarely in the nuts!!! I can’t stand the wait!!!!!

Go Knicks!!!

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

It's not just IQ tho. It's IQ, plus, picks and whatever else. I think Ivey will be good in time, but how good? I don't see Ja. The handle, floater package and PnR manipulation aren't close to where Ja was at on the same level. What level do you see Ivey reaching? I see borderline All Star.

He's definitely not a Ja Morant clone. Ja averaged 10 assists per in college and was a pure pg, Ivey is a scorer and his best position is off the ball and being used as a secondary ball-handler. He reminds me a little of D Wade at Marquette. Also, the way he stops and starts, hesitates and the way he manipulates the ball to slither through defenders reminds me of Jordan Poole. Ivey is more explosive and does other things that are not as similar to Poole, but just that aspect of his game.

*Edit
At his peak, I think he can make multiple allstar teams. But, he needs to be playing for a winning team....

SergioNYK wrote:Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst tonight.

Doubt we trade up for Ivey. I'll be very surprised. Seems too expensive to do so and risky going all in on an unproven player. This regime would lose their jobs unless Ivey is Ja Morant 2.0. If we stay at 11 I'm hoping for Johnny Davis but I doubt he'll be there. Most mocks have us taking AJ Griffin and I'm meh on him. I like the shooting but I do not like taking a player with knee injury history. We've never ever done well with those. So if Davis is gone, I think I'd go with Agbaji. I would strongly consider Sochan but this regime seems committed to Randle so where would he even play? If we trade down I like Jalen Williams or BouChamp.

And I'm passing on Dyson Daniels, Duren and Branham.

Same hear, though this years draft is so hard to fathom, so I'm not pinning my hopes on anyone outside of Ivey (who I refuse to believe we'll land!). I'm fine if AJ Griffin falls to us (or we trade up), same for Sharpe, because with those two we should have insider intel regarding the concerns about them- takes the edge of the knee worries for me.

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1539964293042655233

“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

Correct- that's why Ivey would help break us out of that, even if he busted, we'd be building around him so would likely end up up with a better pick next year. Middle city means vets dominate the minutes, which means the younger players don't get to build their value, which means you can't get good value trading, so you have to give up more in a trade. You end up with a poorer draft pick, is it makes landing star talent via the draft harder AND leaves you with a poorer trade set. So then you risk having to give up even more in a trade. On top of that you then have to overpay the vets just to tred water. Then you can't trade them or have to give up more assets to trade them. In the end even if you install a culture (and if you look at OKC you can tank AND establish one without winning), you either trade away the young players or the vets anyways, so the whole thing was pointless.

Jimbo5 wrote:Since Sharpe sat out last year most people know little anout him. Who is his NBA comparison? Floor and ceiling? I see JR Smith's name being tossed in as well as Zach Lavin. If he gets closer to Zach then he will be wortg trading up.

I'm not ashamed to admit it- JR Smith was one of my favorite Knicks of the past 10 years or so, despite all his flaws!- when he was on, he was fun to watch. But also maddening. Very funny too. And also maddening. I should know better but...