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The possibility of getting Nene......
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diderotn
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11/16/2004  11:48 AM
I read earlier that Jayson Kidd may be traded to Denver. However, the deal may have to involve a third team. Denver plans on moving: Miller, Nene, and a third player to match Kidd's salary. Nene was a Knick and should have remained just that. The kid is about 6'11" and is extremely powerful.

What can we include in this deal to obtain Nene????? We will have some expiring contracts: TT, Penny, and others next season. Denver may be looking at the big picture. With Kidd, for sure the combo of Carmelo and Martin could be explosive to the max. Therefore, it is in Denver's best advantage to do this deal. Penny can definitely provide that veteran leadership that Denver so dearly missed. He could actually teach Carmelo a little about versatility.

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Nalod
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11/16/2004  11:58 AM

Denver might need to maximize their investment in Martin by bringing in KIdd. Makes sense.

Miller is good PG for nets to build with.

Denver gets kidd, and What does Nets recieve in return dollar wise?

What does miller make, Skita? etc.

Then What does nets have that we can give them? Two years expiring? Not enough. Moochie plus three mil? Do they want NENE? They need a power forward. Kurt is good for a few more years until they can draft what they want.

Its not about us getting NENE, its what can we offer other teams to get what we want. What is Kurts tru value at his age and years left. He is in his prime, so its got to be a team that needs production NOW. He can help the nets from sinking. Adding miller and KT for Kidd is not a bad trade for them. KT playing in Jersey is not going to take them over the top.
diderotn
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11/16/2004  12:35 PM
I know that it could be wishful thinking on my part, but Marburry wasn't supposed to be a Knick either. In this league, anything can happen. Having Isiah as our GM can be beneficial.


Posted by Nalod:


Denver might need to maximize their investment in Martin by bringing in KIdd. Makes sense.

Miller is good PG for nets to build with.

Denver gets kidd, and What does Nets recieve in return dollar wise?

What does miller make, Skita? etc.

Then What does nets have that we can give them? Two years expiring? Not enough. Moochie plus three mil? Do they want NENE? They need a power forward. Kurt is good for a few more years until they can draft what they want.

Its not about us getting NENE, its what can we offer other teams to get what we want. What is Kurts tru value at his age and years left. He is in his prime, so its got to be a team that needs production NOW. He can help the nets from sinking. Adding miller and KT for Kidd is not a bad trade for them. KT playing in Jersey is not going to take them over the top.
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fishmike
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11/16/2004  1:19 PM
the possibility is Sweetney and Ariza for Nene.. thats about fair. Otherwise forget it. We got Marbury because Isiah was willing to take on the additional $120mm in salary to Penny and Marbury. Pho used the cap space to sign Richardson and Nash and are off to a great start.

Both teams got what they needed
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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11/16/2004  1:27 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I know that it could be wishful thinking on my part, but Marburry wasn't supposed to be a Knick either. In this league, anything can happen. Having Isiah as our GM can be beneficial.
[quote]Posted by Nalod:

"Isiah", "A wizard, a true star"
TMS
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11/16/2004  1:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the possibility is Sweetney and Ariza for Nene.. thats about fair. Otherwise forget it. We got Marbury because Isiah was willing to take on the additional $120mm in salary to Penny and Marbury. Pho used the cap space to sign Richardson and Nash and are off to a great start.

Both teams got what they needed

no thanks...i'd rather hold onto Ariza...Sweetney can be traded in the right package, but i think Ariza is just too versatile at his age to trade away...he's a future star imo.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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11/16/2004  2:35 PM
no thanks...i'd rather hold onto Ariza...Sweetney can be traded in the right package, but i think Ariza is just too versatile at his age to trade away...he's a future star imo.

At best- what is Ariza going to become- a Scottie Pippen? and its probably going to be below that.

Nene at 6'11" and 260 can play center for us, has some Hakeem like moves, and is as young as we can hope for.

I personally think we'd be lucky to get Nene for Ariza and Sweets
fishmike
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11/16/2004  2:46 PM
while I hate Pippin he's one of the NBA's 50 best players no? A tremendous two way player, long athletic 3 with PG type skills. Sorry, Nene is a tough kid but Hakeem? Sorry.. not even close yet.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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11/16/2004  3:07 PM
there is no need to trade our youth to obtain any player, except if it is: Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, TMack, Kobe; Perhaps: Vince, Paul Pierce, Kirilinko, or Pau Gasaul. We don't know what Ariza and Sweetney will be, and that is exciting to me. We can trade cap space and draft picks, that is about it.
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djsunyc
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11/16/2004  3:13 PM
Posted by franco12:
no thanks...i'd rather hold onto Ariza...Sweetney can be traded in the right package, but i think Ariza is just too versatile at his age to trade away...he's a future star imo.

At best- what is Ariza going to become- a Scottie Pippen? and its probably going to be below that.

Nene at 6'11" and 260 can play center for us, has some Hakeem like moves, and is as young as we can hope for.

I personally think we'd be lucky to get Nene for Ariza and Sweets

pip? we should thank our lucky stars if he turns into darius miles...
Rich
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11/16/2004  3:32 PM
There is no way in hell I would trade Sweetney or Ariza for Nene. He's not that good.
crzymdups
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11/16/2004  3:50 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by franco12:
no thanks...i'd rather hold onto Ariza...Sweetney can be traded in the right package, but i think Ariza is just too versatile at his age to trade away...he's a future star imo.

At best- what is Ariza going to become- a Scottie Pippen? and its probably going to be below that.

Nene at 6'11" and 260 can play center for us, has some Hakeem like moves, and is as young as we can hope for.

I personally think we'd be lucky to get Nene for Ariza and Sweets

pip? we should thank our lucky stars if he turns into darius miles...

Alright, I'm against overrating young players, but Ariza knows how to do more things than Darius Miles even thinks about. Ariza is so much better than Miles right now, its not even funny. Come on.
¿ △ ?
fishmike
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11/16/2004  4:13 PM
Ariza isnt there yet, your being biased. Miles started last year playing PG before they traded for McGinnis. Miles has become a very solid player, its just took him until the ripe old age of 23. I think Ariza is a little tougher, but he's still overmatched at times. He does have some great intangibles that tells you he could really be a good player.

Coming off the bench and looking good for 15-20 minutes a game is a lot easier than starting and being a good NBA player for 30 plus.

I like Ariza and after the Penny/TT contracts expire after next year no reason you cant see him as your starting 3 for a LONG time. We could also save a lot of money if we sign him long term after this year, rather next.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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11/16/2004  4:37 PM
fish- I am not saying Nene is going to be the next Hakeem- just that he has some low post moves that remind me of Hakeem.

Nene is 22 years old- averaged 32 minutes last year and average 8 shots a game and put up 11 pts on a very balanced team that ran alot-

Out here in the east on our team I've got to imagine that Nene is putting up more minutes and more shots-

There is no way Kiki trades Nene for Sweets and Ariza. Chris Mullen might, Layden might.

I am also very happy to see Ariza take over for TT & Penny as the 3 for this team and just drop those contracts off the cap.
NYKBocker
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11/16/2004  4:59 PM
OK. Here you go.....I think it is a good trade all around...

New York trades: SG Jamal Crawford (14.8 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 30.4 minutes)
New York receives: PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili (1.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.0 minutes)
Nene Hilario (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -13.8 ppg, +1.3 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

Denver trades: PG Andre Miller (11.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.3 apg in 34.3 minutes)
SG Voshon Lenard (13.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.0 minutes)
PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili (1.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.0 minutes)
Nene Hilario (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Denver receives: Jason Kidd (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -25.9 ppg, -7.6 rpg, and -5.3 apg.

New Jersey trades: Jason Kidd (No games yet played in 2004/05)
New Jersey receives: SG Jamal Crawford (14.8 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 30.4 minutes)
PG Andre Miller (11.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.3 apg in 34.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +26.7 ppg, +5.3 rpg, and +7.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

NJ comes out like bandits!
Denver gets Kidd and almost guarantees a trip to the finals.
We get Nene and Skita. Well, Nene at least.
bernard
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11/16/2004  5:04 PM
Right now, Knicks appreciate Ariza's potential more than any other team. No way we'd get equal value for him. Sweets probably same thing. No one else knows what they do in practice, that they're pros intent on learning. To the rest of the league, their young guys who haven't done anything but show some flashes.
MaTT4281
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11/16/2004  5:33 PM
Posted by franco12:
no thanks...i'd rather hold onto Ariza...Sweetney can be traded in the right package, but i think Ariza is just too versatile at his age to trade away...he's a future star imo.

At best- what is Ariza going to become- a Scottie Pippen? and its probably going to be below that.

Nene at 6'11" and 260 can play center for us, has some Hakeem like moves, and is as young as we can hope for.

I personally think we'd be lucky to get Nene for Ariza and Sweets
We can only pray he becomes a Pippen. won't hold those kind of standards for him though.

Personally, I am not a fan of Nene, and would not include either Sweetney or Ariza in a trade to get him.
If we have to trade someone, trade Kurt. His trade value is pretty high right now. We should get something for him before it goes away. (And just incase this starts up another "How valueable is Kurt" discussion, he is valueable and wouldn't just give him away.)
tkf
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11/16/2004  7:05 PM
I wonder if Nene were a knick and ariza a nugget, would we hear things like

"no way do we get ariza for nene, ariza is the next scottie pippen, while nene is far from hakeem, at least Hakeem rebounded and blocked shots when he first entered the league as well as scoring, nene does not board or block many shots"

I really wonder... anyway, nene is far from resembling Hakeem, when he learns to board with that 6'11 frame then we can talk, right now ariza is displaying a lot of the all around skills that will lead you to believe that over time he can develop into that "pippen type" of player..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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