IQ/Obi may not be stars but they are if nothing else rotation players and their upside for more remains.

Also you mentioned IQ/Obi but there is another pair that have shown good chemistry also, and that is IQ/Burks. They were great in the 2nd unit last year. Many times that IQ/Rose/Burks/Obi unit changed games. While neither IQ/Burks may not be "true PGs" when they play together you take the pressure off both a bit and they become scorers who can facilitate and that is very valuable.

You said "run it back" at one point. I think its likely Julius is here next year.

“There are so many different things we can do when we’re both on the court. But we’ve definitely talked about it and hopefully we’re both back here next year and we can see that. I feel like we can definitely do some damage in the league if we’re on the court together.”

To me the way you do that and upgrade the SL and defense is start IQ/Burks and shorten the rotation.
PG IQ
SG RJ
SF Burks
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose/Fournier/Obi

I think that is our best SL and 100x better on defense than starting Kemba/Fournier or Brunson/Fournier for that matter.
As for the bench Fournier takes Burks role last year. He's going to get his share of shots and he's one of the best shooters in the league. Obi is going to have to fight for minutes but he's a keeper for sure.

I do not think RJ/IQ/Obi/Mitch are good enough to make the playoffs (yet) so if you move Randle for an expiring and a pick next year it's going to set us back. That is also fine as I have no issue with committing to a rebuild. Either way it looks good.

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Love what IQ is doing recently. We still need a starting PG

Agreed. He’s such a good change of pace player. I could see him starting alongside another playmaker eventually but not as a true starting Pg yet.

Burks has real value. I wish we got a longer look at Reddish

Obi seems to play better when he’s not looking over his shoulder. And I believe he said something similar during an interview. So clearly Obi is a late bloomer and this might explain why. Some players thrive in different environments. When u have to look over your shoulder, and worry about mistakes, it takes you out of your game. But when u are playing free and not worried about mistakes, or worried that thibs will yank you for every mishap, your play is better which is what we are seeing in Obi.

To me, I would bring them back as starters. Never underestimate the importance of chemistry. And right now Obi and IQ are one of the few pairs of players that enjoy each other’s company on and off the court. Plus other players like RJ and others, actually like these guys. These young players have a bond together. Since we are not championship ready, why not build around IQ, RJ and Obi? The reward out weighs the risk.

Same thing I said earlier in the season. The reward in starting IQ earlier out weighed the risk. And what we are seeing is the reward in giving IQ more minutes as a starter vs off the bench. I believe IQ can grow into the PG thibs wants or needs. Obi can grow into an impactful starting PF, as a ball mover who takes the top off the offense with his leak outs on fast breaks.

Start them both and trade Randle. With the way Obi has played, and how Randle did the fan gesture, I believe there’s no return from that. Fans will scream Obi every time Randle has his moments or missing shots and doesn’t give his all. And right now Randle value is low but his subtraction should be an addition to the team in the long run. Yes Randle will go to another team and dominate just like zack Randolph did in Memphis. But that’s why the FO and coaches make the big bucks. For tough decisions like this. But this time there’s backing from fans and their tape of what this team can become without Randle.

Nalod wrote:Why can’t we play both?
randle seems leaner the last two years. Either he bulks back up and is the PF doing that bully ball or up the pace and pay SF.

Im hoping randle can fix himself and they can solve some chemistry issues. not sure that can be but I can’t rule it out. If “jWe Here” randle is still relevant, and we have an OBI that has range, is this common theory still true? RJ at the 2?

Start IQ? OR do a deal for Brunson.
I think Evan has played back to his contract and was durable. he has trade value. As does one of Grimes/Cam, and we have plethora of 2nd picks and the Mavs pick also.
There is a world of possibilities. One is Randle and OBI co-existing.

Dumping Randle is an emotional move, not a tactical one. He's still much better than Obi, but its also obvious Obi needs time and minutes to grow. Something like Bledsoe and pick sets us WAAAAY back unless you get some really wild contributions from other guys.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Why can’t we play both?
randle seems leaner the last two years. Either he bulks back up and is the PF doing that bully ball or up the pace and pay SF.

Im hoping randle can fix himself and they can solve some chemistry issues. not sure that can be but I can’t rule it out. If “jWe Here” randle is still relevant, and we have an OBI that has range, is this common theory still true? RJ at the 2?

Start IQ? OR do a deal for Brunson.
I think Evan has played back to his contract and was durable. he has trade value. As does one of Grimes/Cam, and we have plethora of 2nd picks and the Mavs pick also.
There is a world of possibilities. One is Randle and OBI co-existing.

phuck no to Brunson. Lets pass on paying high for midgets. I agree with you on chemistry which is why you start IQ next year and pair him with Burks. Those two brings size/shooting/ball handling/can run plays... neither are great full time PGs, but together they look fantastic.
Move Fournier to the bench where Thibs can ride his hot nights and sit his cold ones.
Rose is IQ's back up. Then you have McBride and someone you draft or a vet that fits well.

Dumping Randle is an emotional move, not a tactical one. He's still much better than Obi, but its also obvious Obi needs time and minutes to grow. Something like Bledsoe and pick sets us WAAAAY back unless you get some really wild contributions from other guys.

Caseloads wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Why can’t we play both?
randle seems leaner the last two years. Either he bulks back up and is the PF doing that bully ball or up the pace and pay SF.

Im hoping randle can fix himself and they can solve some chemistry issues. not sure that can be but I can’t rule it out. If “jWe Here” randle is still relevant, and we have an OBI that has range, is this common theory still true? RJ at the 2?

Start IQ? OR do a deal for Brunson.
I think Evan has played back to his contract and was durable. he has trade value. As does one of Grimes/Cam, and we have plethora of 2nd picks and the Mavs pick also.
There is a world of possibilities. One is Randle and OBI co-existing.

phuck no to Brunson. Lets pass on paying high for midgets. I agree with you on chemistry which is why you start IQ next year and pair him with Burks. Those two brings size/shooting/ball handling/can run plays... neither are great full time PGs, but together they look fantastic.
Move Fournier to the bench where Thibs can ride his hot nights and sit his cold ones.
Rose is IQ's back up. Then you have McBride and someone you draft or a vet that fits well.

Dumping Randle is an emotional move, not a tactical one. He's still much better than Obi, but its also obvious Obi needs time and minutes to grow. Something like Bledsoe and pick sets us WAAAAY back unless you get some really wild contributions from other guys.

agree with everything fish said. Please, hard pass on Brunson. Let's home grow IQ and our own talent for once. now, if we can get a SGA, you do that

Second, it takes a little while for the league to adjust to players when they start getting significant shots. Push Jeremy Lin left and he will drive all the way out of the league. Enough tape reveals flaws. Guys put up one or two games like this os cool. When they adapt and overcome the changes in defense is where they become real.

I’m optimistic on Quickley because this iteration is an adaptation for him. He is opening up other aspects of his game where I previously thought of him as a gunslinger. I think this is real.

Toppin is having a blast and showing some real offensive versatility in a manner that makes me hopeful that all he needs is a point guard. That said, we need to see how the league reacts to him and whether he adapts.

I’m excited for these two but the team needs to figure out how to divvy up the shots. Ball movement seems to stop in the Barrett/Randle/Fournier iterations. That has to change.

jskinny35 wrote:If Randle is here next season it's only because we couldn't find a trade for him that didn't require us sending a pick to get rid of him. Can't see any scenario where Randle and Toppin are paired together next season - especially with the fan/crowd perception change with Randle. He's gone and may even already know that.

IQ and Toppin will still be widely erratic at times and I see them as fringe starters/super subs due to their play style. They may be the best we have to offer but IQ is still ideally a combo guard off the bench and Toppin a tweener forward. Both would not start on playoff teams at the moment so we shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves. Let's hope they progress to be more but while I'm encouraged by the recent games, I'll be more optimistic with their potential when I see the game slow down for each of them. Most of what Toppin is doing is based on his hustle and speed against lesser quality players. If a quality team game planned to focus on him, he would need a lot more offensive ability to still produce more than a few hustle/transition points. And I've been all for dumping Randle to give Toppin time (for the past two seasons).

The question for me is how much we value IQ and Toppin's recent play if a high potential trade presents itself... if a player like Donovan Mitchell is available but it would require 2 #1 picks, IQ, Toppin and others (not RJ and they won't want Randle) - do you do it? I think as much as I personally support young talent the Knicks would almost certainly do it.

Ideal offseason for me would be to move Randle and #12 for Bledsoe, Winslow and #7. Then try to package #7 and Dallas future 1st to move up to #3 or 4 and land that PG we've been needing for some time. Eat Kemba's deal if we can't find a trade. In this scenario I would trade Rose and Burks to highest bidder (LA was interested last season at deadline) and hope they can help a playoff team. Move Fournier to 6th man midway through season to allow Grimes time to develop into a starter (best case scenario). Resign Mitch if it's not too crazy an overpay and we return with essentially the same squad plus another top talent to add to. Expect us to regress a bit but still fight for that playoff spot. We'd be pretty set for the future IMO.

When the Knicks are winning games and Randle is playing a positive role in it things will change really fast. That's all anyone cares about