TheGame wrote:My view if we are going to sign a PG to be a starter, the pg should not have any significant holes to his game. Brunson COULD be a solid starter but that is still debatable at this point. He is only a so-so defender and he is undersized. While he seems to a competent pg, he has not really proven that he can run a team full time. Instead of paying Brunson $20 mil a year, I would just start Quickley, hope Rose can stay healthy, and see how McBride looks in year two.

What's your barometer for him to get to that point?

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

you are worse than Briggs... at least he says the names of his crush in the title

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

Disagree. Dude is a craftsman in the paint and the number back it up. Dude shoots like 60% from there. He can also create under pressure.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/shooting

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

you are worse than Briggs... at least he says the names of his crush in the title

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

Disagree. Dude is a craftsman in the paint and the number back it up. Dude shoots like 60% from there. He can also create under pressure.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/shooting

Youtube Brunson. Awesome. Most of that video is him dribbling around until he gets his shot off.

You win. Knixkik also. Brunson is awesome. I love him too now. Forget the defensive issues with building around him for the next 4-5 years.

Lets just focus on reality

BigDaddyG... what path would you suggest to acquiring him and why does Dallas let him come?

I'm not sure and I agree, that there is a price that may be too high. If a sign and trade with Mitch is all it took, then I'd be down. I'm just pushing back against the idea that Brunson is a scrub who wouldn't help the team. He would be a huge upgrade.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

you are worse than Briggs... at least he says the names of his crush in the title

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

Disagree. Dude is a craftsman in the paint and the number back it up. Dude shoots like 60% from there. He can also create under pressure.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/shooting

Youtube Brunson. Awesome. Most of that video is him dribbling around until he gets his shot off.

You win. Knixkik also. Brunson is awesome. I love him too now. Forget the defensive issues with building around him for the next 4-5 years.

Lets just focus on reality

BigDaddyG... what path would you suggest to acquiring him and why does Dallas let him come?

I'm not sure and I agree, that there is a price that may be too high. If a sign and trade with Mitch is all it took, then I'd be down. I'm just pushing back against the idea that Brunson is a scrub who wouldn't help the team. He would be a huge upgrade.

never said he was a scrub. Never. I have said several times he's a very good BB player. Brunson would have been a HUGE help THIS year. The question is moving forward does he make sense and I have laid out reasons why he does NOT (starting with acquisition costs)

Here's some reasons from a Mav's fan:

Brunson has had a really good year and has been an important part of the teams success this year. His numbers goes down against Westen Conference playoff contenders and he still has been marginalized by lengthy defenders. While he's definitely worth a pay raise, I dont think he's worth $20M a year and think it would be a mistake to give him such a contract. How he plays in this years playoffs will be critical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/tygs4p/the_athletic_the_pistons_have_real_interest_in/

Eh, that Reddit quote is like linking a quote from some one here that says Mitch is a $20M per year center on the open market. From a on the court perspective, I think he make sense due to his ability to break down the defense and score/ in the paint. He's also good at manipulating the pick and roll. He's be a welcome addition. But you're right, it depends on the cost and we won't really know that until the FA market opens.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

you are worse than Briggs... at least he says the names of his crush in the title

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

Disagree. Dude is a craftsman in the paint and the number back it up. Dude shoots like 60% from there. He can also create under pressure.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/shooting

Youtube Brunson. Awesome. Most of that video is him dribbling around until he gets his shot off.

You win. Knixkik also. Brunson is awesome. I love him too now. Forget the defensive issues with building around him for the next 4-5 years.

Lets just focus on reality

BigDaddyG... what path would you suggest to acquiring him and why does Dallas let him come?

I'm not sure and I agree, that there is a price that may be too high. If a sign and trade with Mitch is all it took, then I'd be down. I'm just pushing back against the idea that Brunson is a scrub who wouldn't help the team. He would be a huge upgrade.

never said he was a scrub. Never. I have said several times he's a very good BB player. Brunson would have been a HUGE help THIS year. The question is moving forward does he make sense and I have laid out reasons why he does NOT (starting with acquisition costs)

Here's some reasons from a Mav's fan:

Brunson has had a really good year and has been an important part of the teams success this year. His numbers goes down against Westen Conference playoff contenders and he still has been marginalized by lengthy defenders. While he's definitely worth a pay raise, I dont think he's worth $20M a year and think it would be a mistake to give him such a contract. How he plays in this years playoffs will be critical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/tygs4p/the_athletic_the_pistons_have_real_interest_in/

Eh, that Reddit quote is like linking a quote from some one here that says Mitch is a $20M per year center on the open market. From a on the court perspective, I think he make sense due to his ability to break down the defense and score/ in the paint. He's also good at manipulating the pick and roll. He's be a welcome addition. But you're right, it depends on the cost and we won't really know that until the FA market opens.

Basically Mavs fans: "If he's shut down in the playoffs again there's no point in committing to him"
Knick fans: "playoffs???? we talking about playoffs???"

Lastly... your youtube video shows Brunson's best attribute is scoring. He's not an elite playmaker. This isnt a CP3 guy who makes everyone better. His #s are not better enough than Burks (as a starter) last year to warrent ANY of the kind of moves it would take to get him (trading for cap space, letting Mitch walk, using assets in a S&T)

Really lastly... the Knicks are not "one player or one position" away from anything. If we are being totally honest with this roster its in the early stages at best. We are seeing assets turned into guys like IQ/Grimes/Sims/McBride/Rokus... Keep Mitch, keep developing these guys, keep drafting well.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:2 things to take advantage of their connections, which is why they were brought in to begin with;

1 is Brunson. Uber efficient PG that is young enough to grow with the young guys. We don’t need to elaborate on this one because it’s been discussed plenty lately

2 is manipulate draft process to get Shaedon Sharpe. I don’t know much about him but his profile screams star potential. He’s a Kentucky recruit who might be repped by CAA for all we know, but could easily go dark and avoid working out for other teams to steer his way to the Knicks. Can move up using a future protected pick or the Dallas 2023 pick. This draft can yield us another player in the Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish range or we can take a stab at a real future star who can grow alongside Barrett. Coming out of the summer with a good PG and a developmental prospect who has real difference maker upside can turn the tides on the franchise in ways that this front office needs to accomplish.

you are worse than Briggs... at least he says the names of his crush in the title

Brunson... undersized guard with defensive liabilities who doesnt help you attack the basket. Works with the space created by one of the NBA's best players. There is no path at acquire beyond throwing draft assets or another player in a sigh and trade

Wecome to the offseason where Knixkik is going to start a new "this is a good direction" thread with #1 saying "get Brunson" despite no logical path to get him. Dallas would be willing... they play as well without him as they do with him.

Maybe Burks/Simms and a FRP for a sign and trade with Brunson. Yeah... that sounds very Isiah like. We can look forward to 3-4 years of Brunson for $20mm per and talk about how steady he is

Disagree. Dude is a craftsman in the paint and the number back it up. Dude shoots like 60% from there. He can also create under pressure.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/shooting

Youtube Brunson. Awesome. Most of that video is him dribbling around until he gets his shot off.

You win. Knixkik also. Brunson is awesome. I love him too now. Forget the defensive issues with building around him for the next 4-5 years.

Lets just focus on reality

BigDaddyG... what path would you suggest to acquiring him and why does Dallas let him come?

I'm not sure and I agree, that there is a price that may be too high. If a sign and trade with Mitch is all it took, then I'd be down. I'm just pushing back against the idea that Brunson is a scrub who wouldn't help the team. He would be a huge upgrade.

never said he was a scrub. Never. I have said several times he's a very good BB player. Brunson would have been a HUGE help THIS year. The question is moving forward does he make sense and I have laid out reasons why he does NOT (starting with acquisition costs)

Here's some reasons from a Mav's fan:

Brunson has had a really good year and has been an important part of the teams success this year. His numbers goes down against Westen Conference playoff contenders and he still has been marginalized by lengthy defenders. While he's definitely worth a pay raise, I dont think he's worth $20M a year and think it would be a mistake to give him such a contract. How he plays in this years playoffs will be critical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/tygs4p/the_athletic_the_pistons_have_real_interest_in/

Eh, that Reddit quote is like linking a quote from some one here that says Mitch is a $20M per year center on the open market. From a on the court perspective, I think he make sense due to his ability to break down the defense and score/ in the paint. He's also good at manipulating the pick and roll. He's be a welcome addition. But you're right, it depends on the cost and we won't really know that until the FA market opens.

read the whole thread.. its interesting. It certainly serves my argument which is that Brunson makes no sense because he's a high cost acquisition with low ceiling because of his physical limitations. Thats it.

Basically Mavs fans: "If he's shut down in the playoffs again there's no point in committing to him"
Knick fans: "playoffs???? we talking about playoffs???"

Lastly... your youtube video shows Brunson's best attribute is scoring. He's not an elite playmaker. This isnt a CP3 guy who makes everyone better. His #s are not better enough than Burks (as a starter) last year to warrent ANY of the kind of moves it would take to get him (trading for cap space, letting Mitch walk, using assets in a S&T)

Really lastly... the Knicks are not "one player or one position" away from anything. If we are being totally honest with this roster its in the early stages at best. We are seeing assets turned into guys like IQ/Grimes/Sims/McBride/Rokus... Keep Mitch, keep developing these guys, keep drafting well.

I'm with Fish on this. I can't make defense arguments about PGs cause apparently no PGs in the NBA play defense except CP3, Marcus Smart and DeJaunte Murray (Coming Soon: Miles McBride, but he has to "play" before he can "play defense"). That said, I think Brunson is cute in the way that Nate Robinson was. Kind of fun watching him run around the court zigging here and there. But, I dunno. I'm just not committed to 20mm a year for him.

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:My view if we are going to sign a PG to be a starter, the pg should not have any significant holes to his game. Brunson COULD be a solid starter but that is still debatable at this point. He is only a so-so defender and he is undersized. While he seems to a competent pg, he has not really proven that he can run a team full time. Instead of paying Brunson $20 mil a year, I would just start Quickley, hope Rose can stay healthy, and see how McBride looks in year two.

What's your barometer for him to get to that point?

Think this is the question. My feeling is that if we are asking a PG to come here and be our lead PG and expect them to be much better than Burks, Rose or IQ, they should have shown a decent sample size of doing that with another team. For me, Brunson has not done that. He has not been the lead PG for a team in a similar situation as the Knicks? He has not been the lead PG on a team without one of the top 5 players in the world. He has not been a lead PG for a team for an entire season. Perhaps the playoffs will give him an opportunity to show he is a difference maker in the playoffs.
But he has not done that yet either. Think in order for people to proclaim him as a major upgrade and possible PG savior, he needs to do some of the things mentioned above. Especially for us to hand him $20M per.I actually think that Brunson is more valuable to Mavs than teams like the Knicks. He is a good insurance policy for Luca. He is familiar with their offense. And seems comfortable in Dallas. All things he may not have with the Knicks. Also feel he is under sized. Just do not think he is worth a large contract yet and would definitely not want to see Cuban hose us yet again with a sign a trade where we give up assets.

Feel we should draft a PG and look for less costly FA options Also feel IQ will continue to grow at the PG spot.

As far as Brunson, I think ANY decent PG would make us a lot better. Especially late in games. We have nothing there right now which is the biggest reason imo we are losing these huge leads and cannot score in the final 5 minutes. We need at the very least average play at the PG spot and I think Brunson can do that and then some.

And the other thing we MUST do imho is trade Randle. Or trade Obi. Can't have both. Randle is the better player but his mood swings and drama are enough. We need a divorce. It's best for everyone. Get a vet PF to split time with Obi next season.