foosballnick wrote:I agree with the sentiment, but also have to look at cap figures to see what is possible.

Offloading Burks, Fournier, Noel and Walker and the removal of Noah's cap hit will reduce the Knicks cap hit by ~$53M which will reduce the Knicks 2022 Cap allocation from $120.5M to $67.5M. Since the Cap will be $121M next year - that would leave the $53M to use under the cap.

Now the hard part.....

- How will the Knicks be able to unload Burks, Fournier, Noel and Walker & without taking on any future cap space (beyond the guys you listed - i.e. pg)?
- PG will likely eat up over $20M in cap (Brogdon = $22.6M, Brunson rumored to be looking for $20M, Sexton is an RFA - probably a sign and trade, Wall = $47.3M)
- Robinson will be a UFA. Likely will be at least $15M per year - probably higher to re-sign.

Thank you. Change itself feels good but one has to consider what comes back.
Noel last year was quite goo and perhaps that can be replicated. Mitch is a big question mark. He is playing well but not enough to effect winning. If we let him walk two months ago nobody would have cried. If we do it now we “same old knicks”. Not really, same old team signs him to gobs of salary!

Being timeline real:

1. Trade deadline and subsequent anger.
2. Season is cooked, 10th or so pick in draft? Get mad at that.
3. Draft night wrangling.
4. Free agency.

This is whats coming up.

losmeister wrote:blow tf up

Blow up a roster and keep the same people who put it together?

That doesn't make a lot of sense

Randle, Fournier, Burks, & Walker to Lakers
Russ, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, 2027 first, 2030 first.

Lakers
LA is desperate with not much wiggle room to propel them into contender status to capitalize on Bron's last couple of years. This gives them a big production boost. Randle can go back to his draft roots. Has past chemistry with AD in the frontcourt. Can spot cover for him when he has his routine injury. Playing off of Bron and AD can take a ton of pressure off him. With mins staggered right he can lead or co-lead a 2nd unit. Fournier & Burks are big upgrades over what Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington are providing the Lakers this moment and will thrive playing with stars like Bron & AD. Kemba offers a better fit than what Westbrook is bringing to the table for this team. Good enough 3pt shooter to fill a role. Lakers overall become deeper and more talented. Those later draft picks will hurt, but that's the cost of doing business.

Knicks
NY unloads salaries and frees up the rotation for younger players. Randle is owed $26, $28, $30, & $32mil over the next 4 years and that terrifies me with the rate that this is going. He was horrible his first yr, great in the bubble, terrible in the playoffs, and having a pretty crappy season this yr. When you tally it all up only have a great bubble yr to put stock in. After Knicks waive Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington. Grimes & Reddish should be able to see consistent quality mins. Reddish, Toppin, Mitch can be fully evaluated so decisions can be made on extensions or trade bait by seasons end. Knicks are currently top 10 in the lottery. This deal probably pushes NY to top 5. Those 2 looong play future Laker picks could be GOLD given they will probably suck terribly after Bron and AD retire or move on . And they owe Pelicans a lot of their future pipeline leading up to it. Top5 pick in 2022 use to dangle at SA(Murray) or OKC(SGA), Or use available cap on Brunson if available.

newyorknewyork wrote:Only move to make and makes perfect sense for both teams.

Randle, Fournier, Burks, & Walker to Lakers
Russ, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, 2027 first, 2030 first.

Lakers
LA is desperate with not much wiggle room to propel them into contender status to capitalize on Bron's last couple of years. This gives them a big production boost. Randle can go back to his draft roots. Has past chemistry with AD in the frontcourt. Can spot cover for him when he has his routine injury. Playing off of Bron and AD can take a ton of pressure off him. With mins staggered right he can lead or co-lead a 2nd unit. Fournier & Burks are big upgrades over what Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington are providing the Lakers this moment and will thrive playing with stars like Bron & AD. Kemba offers a better fit than what Westbrook is bringing to the table for this team. Good enough 3pt shooter to fill a role. Lakers overall become deeper and more talented. Those later draft picks will hurt, but that's the cost of doing business.

Knicks
NY unloads salaries and frees up the rotation for younger players. Randle is owed $26, $28, $30, & $32mil over the next 4 years and that terrifies me with the rate that this is going. He was horrible his first yr, great in the bubble, terrible in the playoffs, and having a pretty crappy season this yr. When you tally it all up only have a great bubble yr to put stock in. After Knicks waive Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington. Grimes & Reddish should be able to see consistent quality mins. Reddish, Toppin, Mitch can be fully evaluated so decisions can be made on extensions or trade bait by seasons end. Knicks are currently top 10 in the lottery. This deal probably pushes NY to top 5. Those 2 looong play future Laker picks could be GOLD given they will probably suck terribly after Bron and AD retire or move on . And they owe Pelicans a lot of their future pipeline leading up to it. Top5 pick in 2022 use to dangle at SA(Murray) or OKC(SGA), Or use available cap on Brunson if available.

Free up salary to do what, sign some other 2nd tier Player like Randle and Fournier that wont move the needle, draft some other avg role player that wont move the needle.

Play more young players and hire Fizdale to chop trees down and win 17 games, then let those same young player walk or lose value like frank or knox after losing 60 games

We don't have no young studs and RJ is avg 34 minutes, and your suggesting we throw in the towel so we can see Mcbride and Sims play more, two 2nd round picks.

It's crazy for you to even come with this silly IDEA when Both Phil and Mills failed miserably with that same plan..

In order to tank you'll have to fire the Coach and the president.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Only move to make and makes perfect sense for both teams.

Randle, Fournier, Burks, & Walker to Lakers
Russ, Ariza, Bazemore, Ellington, 2027 first, 2030 first.

Lakers
LA is desperate with not much wiggle room to propel them into contender status to capitalize on Bron's last couple of years. This gives them a big production boost. Randle can go back to his draft roots. Has past chemistry with AD in the frontcourt. Can spot cover for him when he has his routine injury. Playing off of Bron and AD can take a ton of pressure off him. With mins staggered right he can lead or co-lead a 2nd unit. Fournier & Burks are big upgrades over what Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington are providing the Lakers this moment and will thrive playing with stars like Bron & AD. Kemba offers a better fit than what Westbrook is bringing to the table for this team. Good enough 3pt shooter to fill a role. Lakers overall become deeper and more talented. Those later draft picks will hurt, but that's the cost of doing business.

Knicks
NY unloads salaries and frees up the rotation for younger players. Randle is owed $26, $28, $30, & $32mil over the next 4 years and that terrifies me with the rate that this is going. He was horrible his first yr, great in the bubble, terrible in the playoffs, and having a pretty crappy season this yr. When you tally it all up only have a great bubble yr to put stock in. After Knicks waive Ariza, Bazemore & Ellington. Grimes & Reddish should be able to see consistent quality mins. Reddish, Toppin, Mitch can be fully evaluated so decisions can be made on extensions or trade bait by seasons end. Knicks are currently top 10 in the lottery. This deal probably pushes NY to top 5. Those 2 looong play future Laker picks could be GOLD given they will probably suck terribly after Bron and AD retire or move on . And they owe Pelicans a lot of their future pipeline leading up to it. Top5 pick in 2022 use to dangle at SA(Murray) or OKC(SGA), Or use available cap on Brunson if available.

Free up salary to do what, sign some other 2nd tier Player like Randle and Fournier that wont move the needle, draft some other avg role player that wont move the needle.

Play more young players and hire Fizdale to chop trees down and win 17 games, then let those same young player walk or lose value like frank or knox after losing 60 games

We don't have no young studs and RJ is avg 34 minutes, and your suggesting we throw in the towel so we can see Mcbride and Sims play more, two 2nd round picks.

It's crazy for you to even come with this silly IDEA when Both Phil and Mills failed miserably with that same plan..

In order to tank you'll have to fire the Coach and the president.

You are coming on to this site to let us know that you wouldn't create cap space to sign player to draft any players or do any sort of change?

Dude you are going lower and lower and just spazzing at this point. You may need a break from all of this.

fishmike wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

fishmike wrote:

foosballnick wrote:I agree with the sentiment, but also have to look at cap figures to see what is possible.

Offloading Burks, Fournier, Noel and Walker and the removal of Noah's cap hit will reduce the Knicks cap hit by ~$53M which will reduce the Knicks 2022 Cap allocation from $120.5M to $67.5M. Since the Cap will be $121M next year - that would leave the $53M to use under the cap.

Now the hard part.....

- How will the Knicks be able to unload Burks, Fournier, Noel and Walker & without taking on any future cap space (beyond the guys you listed - i.e. pg)?
- PG will likely eat up over $20M in cap (Brogdon = $22.6M, Brunson rumored to be looking for $20M, Sexton is an RFA - probably a sign and trade, Wall = $47.3M)
- Robinson will be a UFA. Likely will be at least $15M per year - probably higher to re-sign.

there is only one option, and folks are NOT gonna like it but I agree with the OP, the only thing that matters is either acquiring impact players or developing them. That is not gonna happen with Kemba/Burks/Fournier chomping on minutes every night. So... goodbye Kemba/Burks/Evan, and hello Russ.

McBride is too good for the Gleague and he can play defense up here at the least. We need to get a look at him for 20 games.

PG McBride
SG Grimes
SF RJ
PF Jules
C Mitch
Bench: Russ/IQ/Obi/Cam

Could probably get a 2nd rounder for Noel which can be fun on draft day

Shelf Rose for next year (unless someone gets hurt)

See what we got. Hopefully Russ is cool... he could be savage in running the 2nd unit. Its consolidating all the FO mistakes into one bigger easier to deal with mistake that allows us to look at our youth for a good stretch of games. One thing about that above starting unit, it will be able to play DEFENSE and we have seen Thibs rally a crew like that before so maybe they look good. Either way its more important to know. If they suck we maybe its lottery luck for once and we draft an impact guy

2 things -

You're forgetting who the coach is. Unless the Knicks are also unloading Thibs, he would never start Deuce over Russ . It's more likely he will continue with the IQ experiment at PG.

See point 1 on who the coach is......he will want to play Rose as soon as available. Team will likely go into next year with a tandem of Russ/Rose at PG. Next year fans will still be booing Randle and will now also be booing Rus - while still clamoring for Deuce and Obi.

I think you are selling Thibs short but thats par for the course around here. Anytime someone gets hurt, anyone struggling in the rotation, I get it.. its all on Thibs. Literally everything his haters said last year was untrue, but its a bad year so its all true again. I guess we will see what happens.

I'm not a Thibs hater. Never posted anything negative about him. But you have to look at reality. The Knicks are currently extremely thin at PG and Deuce is still seeing no burn. Has to be a reason - meaning Thibs believes he is not a better option than IQ or Burks. If they trade for Westbrook what makes you think this will suddenly change and he will start over Russ?