Belief this is the main reason for our struggles this year. Randle was coming off last year's great year and may have forgotten his role. Being aggressive, going to what is working, getting other guys going, and most importantly playing within a team concept. The success/contract may have gotten into his head and reverted him back to when Fiz wanted him to be a do it all Point Forward. He needs to understand that, as the leader, he needs to not only score but get others playing well. As well as lead by example with effort and demeanor on both sides of the floor. Kemba is struggling as well. Is it to defer to Randle? Is it to be a scorer with an alpha mentality? Is it to distribute the ball to the hot hand(last night)? He needs to watch Rose's film from last year. Rose had a good balance between being aggressive and when to get others going. Kemba also needs to penetrate to create for others. EF seems more like an off-the-bench shooter than a starter right now. He needs to understand that a starter has other good scores and therefore should be creating for them as well. He needs to defend better on a consistent basis. He will be a solid starter if he adds those two and continues to shoot the rock as he has. RJ has also struggled with what his role is early on. He lost most of his aggressiveness from last year. Mostly due to having two new high-profile scorers added to the lineup. Do think he is back now and realizes that he is still one of the two top players that have to take the lead. I do wish he would start setting others up under the basket more though. Seems like he misses opportunities, off drives, to set up Obi and Mitch for easy alley-oops. That and a few more kick-outs to open shooters. Let's also understand that given the injuries and Kemba's benching(different PGs), the first unit has not had a consistent lineup in which to work on those roles.

In terms of the second unit, they were hurt when we took guys like Burks and IQ out of their well-defined and established roles and put them in unfamiliar roles as PGs. (Reason, why I was opposed to benching Kemba or some thinking Obi, can start) This affected the second lineup as well the first. Hopefully, as we saw last night with Burks, getting players back to defined roles will help in getting them back to playing like they did last year. And giving the starters a bit more time will translate into at least being able to analyze who fits and who does not. For me, that would be better than the rinse and repeat mentality most seem to go to when a team is struggling.

I don't think it should be hard, but why can't we try IQ in the starting line up? Either with Burks or EF? Could we try that for a game?

IQ might be a tweaner and might be a 6th man type- but we desperately need pace and ball movement in the first unit. I'd love to try Randle at the five with Obi, but I realize that might be asking too much of the coach and the players.

Maybe it is all Randle's fault! But again, I think he is struggling with the contract or off the court stuff (nagging injuries, something) and can again be a mostly positive contributor to the team's success.

I agree that Randle is stuck. Not that it went to his head. Somet ruth that he is selfish, or as thibs said "not Selfless". He was asked to be that last year.
FO gets him help in EF and Kemba and he does not know when to turn it on and off. Add RJ emergence and its a mess.
Does that mean blow it up? Maybe, likely not.
The question is can Randle undo what is "Wrong" and adjust? I have said this before and Clyde was kind enough to back me last night (Im kidding, sort of) that his shot seleicton is just never easy. How do we get him there?

Lose Kemba?

Mitch. Yes 1248, for the hundredth time we know you think mitch is limited. He is. He is beasting the last few weeks and his offensive boarding is really improved.
Does that mean you get rid of him? Norlens is a smarter more expeirnced player. He is also hurt often. That matters.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Good to know what fans know that they "need to do". The coaches i guess are too busy to not coach.
Im being snarky.

I agree that Randle is stuck. Not that it went to his head. Somet ruth that he is selfish, or as thibs said "not Selfless". He was asked to be that last year.
FO gets him help in EF and Kemba and he does not know when to turn it on and off. Add RJ emergence and its a mess.
Does that mean blow it up? Maybe, likely not.
The question is can Randle undo what is "Wrong" and adjust? I have said this before and Clyde was kind enough to back me last night (Im kidding, sort of) that his shot seleicton is just never easy. How do we get him there?

Lose Kemba?

Mitch. Yes 1248, for the hundredth time we know you think mitch is limited. He is. He is beasting the last few weeks and his offensive boarding is really improved.
Does that mean you get rid of him? Norlens is a smarter more expeirnced player. He is also hurt often. That matters.

Tough crowd, tough crowd. Just making conversation Nalod.

The main point was that these guys need time to figure out their roles. My coaching suggestions are just fandom perspectives.
Randle seems like he is getting the message. Well at least with crowd gestures and a more even approach to offense. Think he actually deferred a bit too much when struggling.

Just do not see Rose doing some knee-jerk ****. As we have seen, that is not his style. I think he will probably look to play out his hand and may add a vet PG on the cheap. Unless some great deal manufactures itself. ie a disgruntal young start is made available. Doubt that.

I admitted to be "snarky".....Sorry man..
Your right, "Knicks need to do better".

I can be empathetic to Randle to to an extent also. Carrying the burdon of that contract is not new to a player. A lot is expected. He might be more salty to others who are not holding up their end?
Kobe was a massive Dick to his teammates about that. Jordan would berate and physically challange new comers. Randle was the defacto leader. True Drose is former MVP he understands his place not being a starter with that long ass contract.
If RJ was truly "build for this", Then its his time to take the torch and Randle might be fine with that. I have no idea.
Randle needs to take some easier shots and perhaps we are better off without him starting plays at the rate we have been.

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Good to know what fans know that they "need to do". The coaches i guess are too busy to not coach.
Im being snarky.

I agree that Randle is stuck. Not that it went to his head. Somet ruth that he is selfish, or as thibs said "not Selfless". He was asked to be that last year.
FO gets him help in EF and Kemba and he does not know when to turn it on and off. Add RJ emergence and its a mess.
Does that mean blow it up? Maybe, likely not.
The question is can Randle undo what is "Wrong" and adjust? I have said this before and Clyde was kind enough to back me last night (Im kidding, sort of) that his shot seleicton is just never easy. How do we get him there?

Lose Kemba?

Mitch. Yes 1248, for the hundredth time we know you think mitch is limited. He is. He is beasting the last few weeks and his offensive boarding is really improved.
Does that mean you get rid of him? Norlens is a smarter more expeirnced player. He is also hurt often. That matters.

Tough crowd, tough crowd. Just making conversation Nalod.

The main point was that these guys need time to figure out their roles. My coaching suggestions are just fandom perspectives.
Randle seems like he is getting the message. Well at least with crowd gestures and a more even approach to offense. Think he actually deferred a bit too much when struggling.

Just do not see Rose doing some knee-jerk ****. As we have seen, that is not his style. I think he will probably look to play out his hand and may add a vet PG on the cheap. Unless some great deal manufactures itself. ie a disgruntal young start is made available. Doubt that.

I admitted to be "snarky".....Sorry man..
Your right, "Knicks need to do better".

I can be empathetic to Randle to to an extent also. Carrying the burdon of that contract is not new to a player. A lot is expected. He might be more salty to others who are not holding up their end?
Kobe was a massive Dick to his teammates about that. Jordan would berate and physically challange new comers. Randle was the defacto leader. True Drose is former MVP he understands his place not being a starter with that long ass contract.
If RJ was truly "build for this", Then its his time to take the torch and Randle might be fine with that. I have no idea.
Randle needs to take some easier shots and perhaps we are better off without him starting plays at the rate we have been.

Don't know if it's the pressure on Randle or just simply trying to do too much once labeled (paid) the cornerstone. I think he will get it going. Do agree that watching him bring up the ball and try to be the initial facilitator is painful. Reason why he needs a solid PG. Also agree, as Clyde mentioned, he has too much movement when shooting the ball.

Whether RJ is ready to be handed the torch will be determined by how he plays when he becomes the primary scorer. When opposing defenses shift their primary focus to stopping him.

Nalod wrote:Foundational piece, not a cornerstone.
Not paid as one either.
RJ might be.
after that we don’t have one.
Yet.

True. We just need another top-tier piece. In this league teams that win chips usually have three. Problem is, unless someone forces a trade or opts out, there are not many on the horizon.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Foundational piece, not a cornerstone.
Not paid as one either.
RJ might be.
after that we don’t have one.
Yet.

True. We just need another top-tier piece. In this league teams that win chips usually have three. Problem is, unless someone forces a trade or opts out, there are not many on the horizon.

Roles

Noel, Bullock and Payton knew there roles from training camp last season, and it never change. From a defensive stand point, Bullock guards the best wing, Noel protects the paint, Payton harasses the ball handler. On the offensive end randle controlled the ball, Bullock and RJ spread the floor, Noel reads the D and reacts accordingly, Payton either cuts or stays the hell out of the way, and was such a willing passer

This yr, Fournier, Mitch, Walker have no fckng clue, no energy, and are sub par defenders. Last yr our defense(because of bullock, payton and Noel) was good enough to compensate for the offensive struggles we would go through.

Mitch- All i can do is dunk, so I'll just stand here and wait for a miss, there's nothing else i can do

Kemba- I'm a scorer, if my shot isn't falling my defense will suffer, I'm just not motivated enough.

Fournier- I'm a shooter and shot creator at times off the dribble, I'm not strong enough or fast enough to chase wings under and over screens.

Those 3 guys are absolutely killing us

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Foundational piece, not a cornerstone.
Not paid as one either.
RJ might be.
after that we don’t have one.
Yet.

True. We just need another top-tier piece. In this league teams that win chips usually have three. Problem is, unless someone forces a trade or opts out, there are not many on the horizon.

Roles

Noel, Bullock and Payton knew there roles from training camp last season, and it never change. From a defensive stand point, Bullock guards the best wing, Noel protects the paint, Payton harasses the ball handler. On the offensive end randle controlled the ball, Bullock and RJ spread the floor, Noel reads the D and reacts accordingly, Payton either cuts or stays the hell out of the way, and was such a willing passer

This yr, Fournier, Mitch, Walker have no fckng clue, no energy, and are sub par defenders. Last yr our defense(because of bullock, payton and Noel) was good enough to compensate for the offensive struggles we would go through.

Mitch- All i can do is dunk, so I'll just stand here and wait for a miss, there's nothing else i can do

Kemba- I'm a scorer, if my shot isn't falling my defense will suffer, I'm just not motivated enough.

Fournier- I'm a shooter and shot creator at times off the dribble, I'm not strong enough or fast enough to chase wings under and over screens.

Those 3 guys are absolutely killing us

So not think anyone will disagree. ONE of the biggest issues this year is the dropoff in defense.
Things being what they are, we need to fix that. However, feel the FOs view that we needed better outside shooting was correct.

They weren't wrong, and those guys(Mitch, Kemba, Fournier) can have an impact, they just can't do it on the floor together.

They have to break that SL up, and they have to make trade to get Cam in the rotation.

HofstraBBall wrote:Have been preaching that we need to be patient with analyzing our current roster. Mainly because anytime you have new players on a team it takes time for each player to understand and find their proper roles. Many that have played understand the importance of understanding one's specific role and how it translates to winning.

Belief this is the main reason for our struggles this year. Randle was coming off last year's great year and may have forgotten his role. Being aggressive, going to what is working, getting other guys going, and most importantly playing within a team concept. The success/contract may have gotten into his head and reverted him back to when Fiz wanted him to be a do it all Point Forward. He needs to understand that, as the leader, he needs to not only score but get others playing well. As well as lead by example with effort and demeanor on both sides of the floor. ....

Blaming roles?

Something I said in the offseason is that the Knicks still had Randle's option year and should use it to evaluate him further. Also that doing so would mean if they had to sign and trade him, they could do it with his then Full Bird Rights. I also said on Randle's end, if he can, just take the money and run. Which he did. And he's lucky he did because I don't see him getting that contract otherwise after based on his play so far this year.

If you play hard and play the right way and things don't work out for you, then that happens in sports.

But you don't play hard and you don't play the right way, the only answer is that you are an *******.

Don't understand the excuse making here. Randle, this season, has played like a complete and total *******. I'm not talking about counting stats and numbers production, I'm talking about basic fundamental expectations of being an actual professional.

When you play like an *******, it means you treat all the fans, the reasons you have that fame and money and celebrity status in the first place, like toilet paper. You smear them with your ****.

Whether you end up playing well or playing badly, you need to play hard. There are no excuses for not playing hard. If you want to make excuse for Randle, go ahead, go get smeared all over with ****. Some people actually get off on that kind of kink.

Respect the game
Respect your team
Respect your teammates
Respect your fans
Respect your obligations

Randle has done exactly none of that this season.

There's a lot I don't like about Charles Oakley. But let's get real here. If Oakley was on this team right now and he saw Randle doing his loafing around ****, Oak would grab Randle by the throat in the locker room and then beat him down. Which is what Randle needs right now. He doesn't need more coddling. He needs, like most spoiled brats, a straight up beating.

I love this team too much to accept Randle acting like a bitch.

I love my fellow Knicks fans too much to allow Randle to try to get them to join him in acting like bitches.