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Knicks have 2 championship starters in Barrett and Grimes
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Knixkik
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1/28/2022  11:29 PM
They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.
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gradyandrew
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1/29/2022  2:03 AM
A lot of guys have started on championship teams. I'm not sure Grimes has the strength yet. Let's just agree that they are two young players who the Knicks control so we should figure them into the franchises future plans. Do you give RJ the max extension this off season?
TheGame
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1/29/2022  5:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/29/2022  6:01 AM
I agree that Barrett and Grimes are the two most promising players on the team. Whether that translates into a championship roster remains to be seen. The Knicks have a bunch of solid young players in Quickley, Toppin, Simms, McBride, Barrett, and Grimes. It will be up the this FO to make the deals that take this team to the next level. They have a interesting issue with RJ. I think he will play his way into a max extension but I would not give it to him until next summer.
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blkexec
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1/29/2022  8:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/29/2022  8:18 AM
gradyandrew wrote:A lot of guys have started on championship teams. I'm not sure Grimes has the strength yet. Let's just agree that they are two young players who the Knicks control so we should figure them into the franchises future plans. Do you give RJ the max extension this off season?

What does that mean? Based on this statement your saying out of all the championship starting 5 teams starting from the 1950s to now, Grimes is the weakness player? Weak where? And why is that important?

We are no where near a championship team right now. I read that by saying what u said after. They are part of the future of this franchise.

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Knixkik
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1/29/2022  10:08 AM
gradyandrew wrote:A lot of guys have started on championship teams. I'm not sure Grimes has the strength yet. Let's just agree that they are two young players who the Knicks control so we should figure them into the franchises future plans. Do you give RJ the max extension this off season?

I’d try to lock Barrett up for slightly below the max at this point. But you can’t risk it either.
Swishfm3
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1/29/2022  10:15 AM
I disagree. I don't think the compliment each other at all. At least not yet. The way they play the game, I hope they can turn into a young Spreewell/Houston but I don't see it yet..at least not Barrett. Not completely sold on him yet. I know he has had some fantastic games for us this year but he is still making the same mistakes and his decision making is terrible.
Knixkik
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1/29/2022  10:24 AM
Swishfm3 wrote:I disagree. I don't think the compliment each other at all. At least not yet. The way they play the game, I hope they can turn into a young Spreewell/Houston but I don't see it yet..at least not Barrett. Not completely sold on him yet. I know he has had some fantastic games for us this year but he is still making the same mistakes and his decision making is terrible.

Curious why you don’t think they compliment each other ? Barrett is a slasher and on-ball player whereas Grimes is 3&D. Both move well without the ball. Their skill sets compliment each other perfectly. Obviously it hasn’t been put into practice as much because Grimes plays primarily with the second unit. But we are thinking future.
Jmpasq
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1/29/2022  12:24 PM
Neither one of them should be playing SF. Barrets value is bullying smaller guards. He will never be more than an average starting SF. That position is littered with far better athletes
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unstopaball12
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1/29/2022  12:44 PM
Hopeffully cam and eh develop. The 3 with Grimes is a solid 2/3 combo
Knixkik
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1/29/2022  1:29 PM
unstopaball12 wrote:Hopeffully cam and eh develop. The 3 with Grimes is a solid 2/3 combo

Completely agree. That could be a nice rotation.
Swishfm3
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1/29/2022  3:56 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:I disagree. I don't think the compliment each other at all. At least not yet. The way they play the game, I hope they can turn into a young Spreewell/Houston but I don't see it yet..at least not Barrett. Not completely sold on him yet. I know he has had some fantastic games for us this year but he is still making the same mistakes and his decision making is terrible.

Curious why you don’t think they compliment each other ? Barrett is a slasher and on-ball player whereas Grimes is 3&D. Both move well without the ball. Their skill sets compliment each other perfectly. Obviously it hasn’t been put into practice as much because Grimes plays primarily with the second unit. But we are thinking future.

I agree with you. On paper, it should work but I just don't trust RJ decision making when he has the ball in his hands. With that said, I wouldn't "actively" look to move either one of them....but....if I had to choose one, it would be RJ Barrett.
TheGame
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1/29/2022  4:11 PM
Grimes’ game translates well to the NBA. He has decent size for a SG, with a quick release and high release point. The thing I like about him is his jumper is always the same. He has very sound fundamentals with his shot, which is why he is shooting at a high percentage. This is Quickley’s problem. His shooting mechanics are not always the same and part of the problem is Quickley has a low release point on his jumper so he is constantly adjusting to create space for his shot, which often leaves him off balance. Grimes’ release point is so high that he usually does not need to make any adjustments to his shot mechanics, which leads to more consistency. I really think highly of Grimes’ game and think he has the chance to special.
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Knixkik
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1/29/2022  5:01 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:I disagree. I don't think the compliment each other at all. At least not yet. The way they play the game, I hope they can turn into a young Spreewell/Houston but I don't see it yet..at least not Barrett. Not completely sold on him yet. I know he has had some fantastic games for us this year but he is still making the same mistakes and his decision making is terrible.

Curious why you don’t think they compliment each other ? Barrett is a slasher and on-ball player whereas Grimes is 3&D. Both move well without the ball. Their skill sets compliment each other perfectly. Obviously it hasn’t been put into practice as much because Grimes plays primarily with the second unit. But we are thinking future.

I agree with you. On paper, it should work but I just don't trust RJ decision making when he has the ball in his hands. With that said, I wouldn't "actively" look to move either one of them....but....if I had to choose one, it would be RJ Barrett.

I’d still want Barrett as a secondary playmaker. I’m putting a lot of eggs in the Jalen Brunson basket but he just makes so much sense. Then hopefully Randle gets some mojo back and we find a more versatile center, with Turner or Bamba being my man targets. If KAT becomes available and demands a trade to the Knicks in the future, I’ll do the Randle and picks for him, and look for a defensive minded PF like Robert Covington to split PF minutes with Toppin.

I think part of the reason Leon rose is so quiet is they are waiting out their guys they have the relationships with. Brunson and Towns are the 2 local guys with major ties to the front office that will be talked about for now.
martin
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1/29/2022  5:02 PM
Knixkik wrote:They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.

I think RJ plays average defense at best.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

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jskinny35
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1/29/2022  5:30 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.

I think RJ plays average defense at best.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

I think he demonstrates a lot of potential defensively as I've seen him take on certain challenges vs specific players. I also have seen a lot more defensive lapses and struggles this season (compared to last). I think some of that is probably reflective of the team's decrease in defensive effort and intensity systemically. Overall, I also think RJ needs to think "defense first" more as sometimes he seems like he's trying to conserve energy for the offensive end.
martin
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1/29/2022  6:23 PM
One of the reasons I don't think RJ can ever be a really good defender is because of his athleticism.

He is really strong for his size and will absolutely be able to body up to guys like Doncic and others in that realm. But when speed and quick reactions are needed, he will be hampered.

Guys like Jimmy Butler can cross him up all day long and just get by him. RJ will always not be able to get out to the 3point shooters cause it just takes him a long time to get moving.

I'd guess there is a lot of things he can do to maybe position himself better or avoid getting crossed up with other offensive players who are just quick, but there is only so much of that you can do.

I don't think RJ move laterally well either.

Grimes is in a whole different world defensively. Quick at moving his feet. Quick at reacting. Quick at recovering and covering ground. Quick at getting off the ground. RJ doesn't have any of that.

This is not to say RJ can't be a good team defender, etc. but he will never be a decent individual defender IMHO

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martin
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1/29/2022  6:28 PM
Knixkik wrote:They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.

When does RJ get to show us that he is an above average offensive player in a consistent way? His usage is pretty high so that means he shoots a lot.

His eFG% and TS% is for **** for a wing player. He hasn't done anything over 2+ years to show us he is even AVERAGE in this area.

But he is a hard worker and has a good personality and can go through spurts where he has INCREDIBLE games and output.

Can he do it for a month? YES. Can he also go games and months being really bad? Unfortunately yes to that too.

He has a long way to go to put it together IMHO, if he can ever get there.

The inconsistent FT shooting should be a HUGE red flag for this type of thing.

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Knixkik
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1/29/2022  7:33 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.

When does RJ get to show us that he is an above average offensive player in a consistent way? His usage is pretty high so that means he shoots a lot.

His eFG% and TS% is for **** for a wing player. He hasn't done anything over 2+ years to show us he is even AVERAGE in this area.

But he is a hard worker and has a good personality and can go through spurts where he has INCREDIBLE games and output.

Can he do it for a month? YES. Can he also go games and months being really bad? Unfortunately yes to that too.

He has a long way to go to put it together IMHO, if he can ever get there.

The inconsistent FT shooting should be a HUGE red flag for this type of thing.

Yes he has a long ways to go. We are seeing now what he can look like at his best. But we aren’t able to trust that yet on a consistent basis. 21 years old though. I guess we will have to wait and see. I know he’s not the fastest or move athletic, but once he learns to play the game at this own pace is when he will be elite. Meaning, he has the ability to play the game at a different pace than others. Similar to how Doncic and Harden play a more methodical speed and defenders have a hard time adjusting to that. That’s what he needs to learn to do.
martin
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1/29/2022  7:49 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:They are interchangeable at SG and SF. They are true 2-way wings who have complimentary skills and enough edge and toughness to fulfill their potential. With them, you never have to worry about those positions. You have 3 other positions to fill to win a championship in the starting lineup. Maybe Randle can still be part of the solution. Maybe not. I’m pretty sure the starting PG and center are not on the roster. The bench that features Quickley, Toppin and Reddish can be the bench of a winner, but you may have to use those pieces to upgrade elsewhere. But if I’m Knicks management I’m locking in the idea of Barrett and Grimes as the SG/SF and not even thinking about it. The challenge is everything else.

When does RJ get to show us that he is an above average offensive player in a consistent way? His usage is pretty high so that means he shoots a lot.

His eFG% and TS% is for **** for a wing player. He hasn't done anything over 2+ years to show us he is even AVERAGE in this area.

But he is a hard worker and has a good personality and can go through spurts where he has INCREDIBLE games and output.

Can he do it for a month? YES. Can he also go games and months being really bad? Unfortunately yes to that too.

He has a long way to go to put it together IMHO, if he can ever get there.

The inconsistent FT shooting should be a HUGE red flag for this type of thing.

Yes he has a long ways to go. We are seeing now what he can look like at his best. But we aren’t able to trust that yet on a consistent basis. 21 years old though. I guess we will have to wait and see. I know he’s not the fastest or move athletic, but once he learns to play the game at this own pace is when he will be elite. Meaning, he has the ability to play the game at a different pace than others. Similar to how Doncic and Harden play a more methodical speed and defenders have a hard time adjusting to that. That’s what he needs to learn to do.

I need more of you optimism. Yes, I will wait and see too.

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gradyandrew
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1/30/2022  1:03 AM
blkexec wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:A lot of guys have started on championship teams. I'm not sure Grimes has the strength yet. Let's just agree that they are two young players who the Knicks control so we should figure them into the franchises future plans. Do you give RJ the max extension this off season?


What does that mean? Based on this statement your saying out of all the championship starting 5 teams starting from the 1950s to now, Grimes is the weakness player? Weak where? And why is that important?

We are no where near a championship team right now. I read that by saying what u said after. They are part of the future of this franchise.


Good catch there. I agree. There have been 100+ guys who have started on championship teams so rather than say "Grimes is better than player x" we should all agree that it's an essentially meaningless designation.

Regarding strength, Grimes isn't strong enough now for the physicality of the playoffs. I think that's true for everyone coming into the league.
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Knicks have 2 championship starters in Barrett and Grimes
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