I’ve seen several trade proposals for Randle and one that may or may not make sense is picking up the phone and calling Atl one more time….I live in Atlanta so every now and then I listen to sports talk radio on my drive to and from work. Word is, the Hawks may have some buyer’s remorse for signing Collins this summer. We may be in similar situations. Hawks rewarded Collins for his great playoff performance, and we rewarded Randle for his regular season performance.

The Hawks are looking for a legit #2 for Trae and Collins hasn’t stepped-up the way they wanted him to. One thing about Collins that I do like, outside of being more efficient than Randle, is that Collins is a stand-up dude. He is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the way the offense is running, pretty much insinuating that the Hawks offense is too-Trae-Centric. He is the one that will appear on talk radio and represent the Hawks, calling out the poor play, etc.

Wouldn't mind us looking into swapping Collins and Randle....Collins makes us more athletic, quicker, and gives us a legit finisher at the 4 and we can run our offense through our guards.

You think it's fair to judge randle on 2 1/2 months of play.

"NY WE HERE" was quoted less then 10 months ago, now it's get this guy out of here.

I get frustrated with Randle as well, but I get equal frustrated with

Burk shooting 19% from 3 since the 34 point game a month ago, 32% fg over all

Mitch and RJ missing FT's

IQ going 1-10 last game, and being super inconsistent

Fournier showing up 1 in every 4 to 5 games

NOEL can't stay healthy

Rose having surgery MID season

Kemba Playing whenever he's knees allow him to play

ThIBs suspect Rotations

OBI's 19% 3 pt shooting.

So don't pin point every thing on RANDLE because he wasn't drafted by the knicks

knicks1248 wrote:why would the knicks trade Randle after what he did for an entire season last yr.

You think it's fair to judge randle on 2 1/2 months of play.

"NY WE HERE" was quoted less then 10 months ago, now it's get this guy out of here.

I get frustrated with Randle as well, but I get equal frustrated with

Burk shooting 19% from 3 since the 34 point game a month ago, 32% fg over all

Mitch and RJ missing FT's

IQ going 1-10 last game, and being super inconsistent

Fournier showing up 1 in every 4 to 5 games

NOEL can't stay healthy

Rose having surgery MID season

Kemba Playing whenever he's knees allow him to play

ThIBs suspect Rotations

OBI's 19% 3 pt shooting.

So don't pin point every thing on RANDLE because he wasn't drafted by the knicks

2 and 1/2 months? How about a year and a half worth of play/data. Last year was his second year here, not his first. And his first year was almost as bad of a season as he's having this year. And its more than his poor player and low efficiency; its all the extra **** that comes with dealing with a player like him...I understand the frustration with the other players but this thread ain't about them....

Nalod wrote:We can hate on Collins here rather than Randle?
In my mind hating the player or hating the play/circumstances.
The ATL series revealed him? Wow, though knicks 4th seed was just good timing when the music stopped. ATL and Miami was surging as were we! But I thought we were over our heads.
I don’t give up on my guys after half a season. To each his own.
I look at the team, the record and how we get there. Its why the whole Elf thing is funny. He sucked, but were were better last year for many reasons. Weird ass short season, no crowds, etc. We sucked before last year. Now we .500 for many reasons.
We already calling out Thibs?

My fandom is about rooting for all knicks to do well, figure the chemistry out, and if a trade makes us better thats fine. I like John Collins but do I want him? Or do I want randle gone?

Last year we this really good team becuase of Randle. This year we are not but does removing him make us better? Or less frustrating? Im really not sure.

We can hate on Collins here rather than Randle?

No. Different players and personalities

In my mind hating the player or hating the play/circumstances.

Both. Being inefficient is one thing, but quitting during games, poor effort in some games, hiding from the media, battling with the fans, battling with the refs during live action, walking out of a timeout while Thibs is drawing up plays just to fraternize with family members, the circus like atmosphere are circumstances he created all on his own. Actually, I take some of that back, Thibs being an enabler and this franchise coddling him has added to the circumstances as well.

I look at the team, the record and how we get there. Its why the whole Elf thing is funny. He sucked, but were were better last year for many reasons. Weird ass short season, no crowds, etc. We sucked before last year. Now we .500 for many reasons.

Randle's play was an aberration, last year, as was our season. This years version of Randle looks like the player we saw his first season here. Like you said, many factors played into it. Covid, no fans, some teams punting on the season, Toronto being displaced, the bubble the year before, the Knicks not being invited giving them more time to prepare for the next season, new coach which causes a jolt to the system, etc...

We already calling out Thibs?

I ain't say **** about Thibs in my original post but I do think he enables...Ranlde is the only player that has been yanked for poor play. We've seen Kemba get pulled from the rotation, Rj get benched for 4th quarters after a few turnovers, Evan for defensive lapses, Obi, IQ, Mitch, etc. Never Randle. When Randle is benched, the entire starting unit gets benched.

Last year we this really good team becuase of Randle. This year we are not but does removing him make us better? Or less frustrating? Im really not sure.

Moving on from Randle is more than just about W's and L's.

Our team has a host of problems - but Randle is the focal point as everything runs through him. He holds the most value. The 2nd unit and RJ play a different style/pace and Randle has not adjusted one bit - he still holds the ball too long, poor decision-making when pressured, etc - he's been there 3 seasons. It's not even fair to expect he will suddenly develop these skills after being in the league for 6+ seasons. He's not all of the sudden going to be ok with becoming a 2nd or 3rd option (if RJ passes him which appears possible). He sulks when he doesn't get calls he feels he should, or when the fans express their displeasure.

And if I'm wrong and he were okay with a demoted role - it would have to be a Melo-type trade where we deplete have of the young talent and picks to land a player more accomplished than Randle. That makes zero sense to me.

It's far easier to trade one flawed player (with value) and keep the remaining players/reserves/picks to continue building. Yes we would mostly likely take a step back at first. We're not going anywhere but middle of the road with Randle as the leader.

As for Collins - it's not a bad idea as Toppin isn't ready to step in as a starter so Collins is solid, athletic and still young enough there's hope for more development. Getting Collins would take the pressure off the next issue of landing a specific type of PG to fit around Randle.

knicks1248 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle supporters look to the 2 games Randle missed when the team struggled to support why we need to keep Randle. Those same people posting should remember that most here were not suggesting to have him sit out and not play. Randle could be turned into a different opportunity (eg trade for player, picks, young prospects, packaged with another in trade).

Our team has a host of problems - but Randle is the focal point as everything runs through him. He holds the most value. The 2nd unit and RJ play a different style/pace and Randle has not adjusted one bit - he still holds the ball too long, poor decision-making when pressured, etc - he's been there 3 seasons. It's not even fair to expect he will suddenly develop these skills after being in the league for 6+ seasons. He's not all of the sudden going to be ok with becoming a 2nd or 3rd option (if RJ passes him which appears possible). He sulks when he doesn't get calls he feels he should, or when the fans express their displeasure.

And if I'm wrong and he were okay with a demoted role - it would have to be a Melo-type trade where we deplete have of the young talent and picks to land a player more accomplished than Randle. That makes zero sense to me.

It's far easier to trade one flawed player (with value) and keep the remaining players/reserves/picks to continue building. Yes we would mostly likely take a step back at first. We're not going anywhere but middle of the road with Randle as the leader.

As for Collins - it's not a bad idea as Toppin isn't ready to step in as a starter so Collins is solid, athletic and still young enough there's hope for more development. Getting Collins would take the pressure off the next issue of landing a specific type of PG to fit around Randle.

Please, this is total non sense,

Marbury
Melo
Amare
Jr Smith
Beasely
Tyson

Fans wanted all of these guys out as soon as they struggled.

Doesn't matter who it is, you struggled knicks HOMERS will want you out of here in a heart beat.

But if Your RJ, KP, Frank, Willy herm, Knox, you can struggle as much as you want....it's ok.

Your argument is weak and baseless. I did not want most of the guys off the Knicks - loved Tyson, Beasley and Amare, Liked Marbury and Melo but time came when it was clear we needed to move on from them. It did make me laugh when you posted guys like KP and Knox as I was never big fans of them but anyway...

This is not a reactionary thing - I've been posting this since the beginning of last season when I suggested he overachieved and we should "sell high." How can you possibly suggest that was the wrong move and that where we are at now is not much worse? His value has decreased but there is still some. You clearly must be a Homer if you have blind loyalty over the team. Let's prove this - RJ is my guy (favorite player on team right now) but if doesn't continue to grow and is still shooting 55% FT in a few seasons he can go as well. I would trade him right now if if clearly made us better in the long-term.

A few questions I hope you will answer...

Can you explain with actual reasoning (not feeling/emotions) why you believe moving on from Randle is "total nonsense"?

What can you offer to realistically defend and support why (after almost 3 full seasons) we should continue to build around Randle?

What problems can you acknowlege w/Randle (eg too ball dominant, doesn't handle pressure well, plays slowly, sulks) if any?

If we were to continue building around Randle - how would you realistically obtain the #1 guy so Randle drops down to the #2 or #3?

Do you not see the difficulty/limitations as we keep trying to find the right fits around Randle vs not having this issue?

If we did gut the bench and draft picks to land a #1 level player - why do you think that would be better/easier vs changing one player?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1485834408120795139

jskinny35 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle supporters look to the 2 games Randle missed when the team struggled to support why we need to keep Randle. Those same people posting should remember that most here were not suggesting to have him sit out and not play. Randle could be turned into a different opportunity (eg trade for player, picks, young prospects, packaged with another in trade).

Our team has a host of problems - but Randle is the focal point as everything runs through him. He holds the most value. The 2nd unit and RJ play a different style/pace and Randle has not adjusted one bit - he still holds the ball too long, poor decision-making when pressured, etc - he's been there 3 seasons. It's not even fair to expect he will suddenly develop these skills after being in the league for 6+ seasons. He's not all of the sudden going to be ok with becoming a 2nd or 3rd option (if RJ passes him which appears possible). He sulks when he doesn't get calls he feels he should, or when the fans express their displeasure.

And if I'm wrong and he were okay with a demoted role - it would have to be a Melo-type trade where we deplete have of the young talent and picks to land a player more accomplished than Randle. That makes zero sense to me.

It's far easier to trade one flawed player (with value) and keep the remaining players/reserves/picks to continue building. Yes we would mostly likely take a step back at first. We're not going anywhere but middle of the road with Randle as the leader.

As for Collins - it's not a bad idea as Toppin isn't ready to step in as a starter so Collins is solid, athletic and still young enough there's hope for more development. Getting Collins would take the pressure off the next issue of landing a specific type of PG to fit around Randle.

Please, this is total non sense,

Marbury
Melo
Amare
Jr Smith
Beasely
Tyson

Fans wanted all of these guys out as soon as they struggled.

Doesn't matter who it is, you struggled knicks HOMERS will want you out of here in a heart beat.

But if Your RJ, KP, Frank, Willy herm, Knox, you can struggle as much as you want....it's ok.

Your argument is weak and baseless. I did not want most of the guys off the Knicks - loved Tyson, Beasley and Amare, Liked Marbury and Melo but time came when it was clear we needed to move on from them. It did make me laugh when you posted guys like KP and Knox as I was never big fans of them but anyway...

This is not a reactionary thing - I've been posting this since the beginning of last season when I suggested he overachieved and we should "sell high." How can you possibly suggest that was the wrong move and that where we are at now is not much worse? His value has decreased but there is still some. You clearly must be a Homer if you have blind loyalty over the team. Let's prove this - RJ is my guy (favorite player on team right now) but if doesn't continue to grow and is still shooting 55% FT in a few seasons he can go as well. I would trade him right now if if clearly made us better in the long-term.

A few questions I hope you will answer...

Can you explain with actual reasoning (not feeling/emotions) why you believe moving on from Randle is "total nonsense"?

What can you offer to realistically defend and support why (after almost 3 full seasons) we should continue to build around Randle?

What problems can you acknowlege w/Randle (eg too ball dominant, doesn't handle pressure well, plays slowly, sulks) if any?

If we were to continue building around Randle - how would you realistically obtain the #1 guy so Randle drops down to the #2 or #3?

Do you not see the difficulty/limitations as we keep trying to find the right fits around Randle vs not having this issue?

If we did gut the bench and draft picks to land a #1 level player - why do you think that would be better/easier vs changing one player?

The knicks won't trade Randle until at least after next season, that's a fact

You always have to ask yourself, did Randle change or did things change around him?

It's easy for you to point the finger at the guy you don't like instead of looking at the team as a whole.

It's easy to say why the hell is Randle holding the ball without thinking did his team make the right cut, is he moving where he is suppose to be.

Does thibs prefer to set up plays rather than grab boards and run

RANDLE DOES NOT PLAY WELL NEXT TO MITCHEL ROBISON, He struggled with Fiz, and he struggle a little last yr before Mitched went down.

He had his best stretch as a Knick when Mitch was not playing....that isn't even debatable.

I was actually high on Collins about a year or so ago. He seemed the type who could just take over a game on both ends. But that's come to end. Is it Trae? I don't know and don't care.

He's not a better defensive player than Randle and he's worse come playoff time than Randle has been in a small sample size, and that's saying something. Why trade Randle for someone else's problem? Trae's possibly going to be one of those Steph Curry-type annoying generational talents and Collins gets point for not playing nice. Great logic there.

And I could really give a **** how he or any player handles the media.

jrodmc wrote:yelp wahhhhhhhhhh yelp wahhhhhhhhh Listen to the crying jackals. JULIUS IS A HUMAN BEING, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! PLEASE STOP!!!

I was actually high on Collins about a year or so ago. He seemed the type who could just take over a game on both ends. But that's come to end. Is it Trae? I don't know and don't care.

He's not a better defensive player than Randle and he's worse come playoff time than Randle has been in a small sample size, and that's saying something. Why trade Randle for someone else's problem? Trae's possibly going to be one of those Steph Curry-type annoying generational talents and Collins gets point for not playing nice. Great logic there.

And I could really give a **** how he or any player handles the media.

You begin your post supposedly mocking those who are calling out Randle insinuating that we are crying....then you preceded to Cry yourself, calling Randle a human being. You sound like one of Randle's coddlers and enablers. Hall of Fame Athletes have dealt with far worse than Randle has in NY, (Jeter, Reggie Jackson, Ewing......Even your boy Melo), and they all did something that Randle is unwilling to do. Admit when you are playing like **** and own it!!

Collins was far more efficient in the playoffs than Randle who shot below 29% on the Hawks series. Before the Hawks went on their run in the playoffs, there was talk that Collins was going to get signed and traded in the summer. His team's performance and his performance (especially against the Sixers) in the playoffs is what earned him his payday...

Stay tuned for another "I Hate Randle" thread! Coming very soon. I promise.