1. Way too many unforced turnovers
2. Inconsistent shooting
3. Dribbles into double and triple teams too much...usually forces shot, throws the ball away, or gets stripped.
4. Slow down pace with his attempted one on one BB.
5. terrible BB IQ...horrible in game situations and clutch FT shooting.

So the question is: Is Thibs giving him the free reign or is the front office forcing him to get extended playing time so they don't look bad by giving him his new contract. I think I read somewhere his +/- is terrible. Randle decided to sign a four-year, $117 million deal, locking in his financial stability and giving the Knicks financial flexibility moving forward.

ccch wrote:On balance, JR hurts the team more than he helps. I believe last year was an anomaly.

1. Way too many unforced turnovers
2. Inconsistent shooting
3. Dribbles into double and triple teams too much...usually forces shot, throws the ball away, or gets stripped.
4. Slow down pace with his attempted one on one BB.
5. terrible BB IQ...horrible in game situations and clutch FT shooting.

So the question is: Is Thibs giving him the free reign or is the front office forcing him to get extended playing time so they don't look bad by giving him his new contract. I think I read somewhere his +/- is terrible. Randle decided to sign a four-year, $117 million deal, locking in his financial stability and giving the Knicks financial flexibility moving forward.

The games in which he was out say hello.

HE is getting more minutes because he gives us the best chance to win. If he plays at the level he can play at. Sure he has many things he needs to work on. But he is our best player when you count things like rebounding and drawing double teams. But as we saw with Obi starting and how we looked without Randle, we do not have much of a choice. Do agree that we can leave Obi in a bit more on occasion when he is playing well. But that has not been very often recently. Last night was perhaps a good game for Obi to stay in a bit more. But I feel Thibs knows if we are to make the playoffs, he needs Randle to get his confidence back to where it was last year. Benching him the last part of the game may not be a good way to do so.

But again, who is available that you would trade him for?

It's not addition by subtraction - but Randle still has some value and a creative FO would realize that we can't magically acquire a higher talented player without either giving up most of our bench or instead one very good player that won't adjust and go back to being a 2nd or 3rd option player.

I think Randle could be moved for Fox (part of a package)

I think Randle could be moved for J. Collins (reportedly unhappy in Atl)

I think Randle (and Burks) could be moved for KP and Brunson (in a package that I would decline unless KP fired his brother Janis and we took insurance)

I think Randle (and Mitch) could be moved for Ayton (in a package)

I think Randle (and Mitch) could be moved for Kuminga and Wiseman (young talented players with promise)

I think Randle could easily be moved for Westbrook (and we could rid ourselves of Fournier and Kemba's contract in the process, land a 1st rounder, etc)

jskinny35 wrote:First off - two games is a small sample size. Second game if I remember Toppin played better. But would never argue that right now as Randle is way more productive than Toppin.

It's not addition by subtraction - but Randle still has some value and a creative FO would realize that we can't magically acquire a higher talented player without either giving up most of our bench or instead one very good player that won't adjust and go back to being a 2nd or 3rd option player.

I think Randle could be moved for Fox (part of a package)

I think Randle could be moved for J. Collins (reportedly unhappy in Atl)

I think Randle (and Burks) could be moved for KP and Brunson (in a package that I would decline unless KP fired his brother Janis and we took insurance)

I think Randle (and Mitch) could be moved for Ayton (in a package)

I think Randle (and Mitch) could be moved for Kuminga and Wiseman (young talented players with promise)

I think Randle could easily be moved for Westbrook (and we could rid ourselves of Fournier and Kemba's contract in the process, land a 1st rounder, etc)

Suns bring in Mitch and Rnadle to replace Crowder could be beneficial and logical. Thats not a bad scenario. GSW is in love with Kuminga but Wiseman could be had. Randle salary for mid season move is hard. They have Draymond. Not sure this works but intersting.
Westbrook is a disaster move. Collins is good, but now you got Obi in the wings still.
No way we do anything with KP.
Deal with Sac is intersting but I'd just as assume have Randle with a top notch PG like Fox.
Im not desperate to move Randle. I think he is evolving and took a step back. I could and am frequently wrong.

ccch wrote:On balance, JR hurts the team more than he helps. I believe last year was an anomaly.

1. Way too many unforced turnovers
2. Inconsistent shooting
3. Dribbles into double and triple teams too much...usually forces shot, throws the ball away, or gets stripped.
4. Slow down pace with his attempted one on one BB.
5. terrible BB IQ...horrible in game situations and clutch FT shooting.

So the question is: Is Thibs giving him the free reign or is the front office forcing him to get extended playing time so they don't look bad by giving him his new contract. I think I read somewhere his +/- is terrible. Randle decided to sign a four-year, $117 million deal, locking in his financial stability and giving the Knicks financial flexibility moving forward.

You have to take into account the human elements and locker room factors. For all we know something might be going on with JR and they want to help him work thru it this way.

Knixkik wrote:

ccch wrote:On balance, JR hurts the team more than he helps. I believe last year was an anomaly.

1. Way too many unforced turnovers
2. Inconsistent shooting
3. Dribbles into double and triple teams too much...usually forces shot, throws the ball away, or gets stripped.
4. Slow down pace with his attempted one on one BB.
5. terrible BB IQ...horrible in game situations and clutch FT shooting.

So the question is: Is Thibs giving him the free reign or is the front office forcing him to get extended playing time so they don't look bad by giving him his new contract. I think I read somewhere his +/- is terrible. Randle decided to sign a four-year, $117 million deal, locking in his financial stability and giving the Knicks financial flexibility moving forward.

You have to take into account the human elements and locker room factors. For all we know something might be going on with JR and they want to help him work thru it this way.

Great point and it makes sense if you think about it. We know Randle does not have the thickest skin. Maybe Thibs knows if he yells at him publicly or benches him after every mistake, it'll just make things worse.

KnickDanger wrote:"Dance with the one who brung ya" is the old adage. Randle brought the Coach of the Year award to Thibs last year and a 4th seed in the playoffs. But letting go of any emotional attachment. is it practical to show you've lost faith in the guy who was your best player before the season started? How will he react to that? And how does it affect the rest of your team? Experts here like to shout "yank him!" with no comprehension of what it is like to coach, much less an NBA team.

Now there will come a reckoning time soon enough where Randle's poor play is extended and cant go on. It might be this whole year. I dont know. I dont even know if Thibs does. Maybe Leon does and he moves Randle. We will learn pretty soon I think. If Randle is here he's going to get the minutes to get right even if he doesnt.

Philc1 wrote:Obi’s shooting has fallen off a cliff this season, that’s why he isn’t getting more minutes

Right on cue after 3-3 from deep vs. Clev.

But on point, not sure it fell off cliff as his pro career was limited last year.
That he can and is still attempting is good.

Fans be like “oh,player X is struggling. Trade him. Rookie X is showing promise, lets give him a chance. What do we have to lose”

Knick fans year in an year out.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi’s shooting has fallen off a cliff this season, that’s why he isn’t getting more minutes

Right on cue after 3-3 from deep vs. Clev.

But on point, not sure it fell off cliff as his pro career was limited last year.
That he can and is still attempting is good.

Fans be like “oh,player X is struggling. Trade him. Rookie X is showing promise, lets give him a chance. What do we have to lose”

Knick fans year in an year out.

Obi going 3-3 in one game should make everyone forget him shooting 20% from 3 the entire season. Got it.