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Trade Deadline coming: what are your consolidation trades?
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Knixkik
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1/25/2022  8:05 AM
For the Knicks, less has to be more. Even with Rose out and Walker in and out of the lineup, the rotation is crowded, and Grimes, Toppin, and now Reddish don’t get enough minutes to grow as players. Eventually something has got to give. Give me either your predictions or made-up trades to help solve this problem. Here’s mine.

Kemba, Burks, Toppin and Dallas 1st for Brunson, Bullock, and Powell (only Brunson would likely make the rotation right now)

Or

Burks, Toppin, and a first for Harrison Barnes

Or

Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert
AUTOADVERT
MS
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1/25/2022  8:22 AM
They need to figure a way to move Burks, Kemba, Fournier. Thibs can’t help himself with veterans on the roster. We aren’t getting much better by next year.

Is there a way to get John Wall with that package? Even if he doesn’t play it’s addition by subtraction. You get Grimes into the lineup full time, you get minutes for Reddish and the makeup of the team changes and you get out of Fourniers $20MM in year three.
martin
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1/25/2022  8:26 AM
Knixkik wrote:Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert

Have to move away from trade ideas that don't meet your goal's criteria. This does not consolidate, it just trades a wing for wing and then the Knicks somehow also add in 2 value plus assets. No one gives up a first and a 10 ten pick for the likes of an inefficient SG who makes $18M.

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Knixkik
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1/25/2022  10:08 AM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert

Have to move away from trade ideas that don't meet your goal's criteria. This does not consolidate, it just trades a wing for wing and then the Knicks somehow also add in 2 value plus assets. No one gives up a first and a 10 ten pick for the likes of an inefficient SG who makes $18M.

You’re right. I don’t disagree.
Knixkik
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1/25/2022  10:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/25/2022  10:17 AM
MS wrote:They need to figure a way to move Burks, Kemba, Fournier. Thibs can’t help himself with veterans on the roster. We aren’t getting much better by next year.

Is there a way to get John Wall with that package? Even if he doesn’t play it’s addition by subtraction. You get Grimes into the lineup full time, you get minutes for Reddish and the makeup of the team changes and you get out of Fourniers $20MM in year three.

Honestly if Wall has anything left in the tank this might be the move. He’s bigger and more switchable for Thibs scheme too. Would have to be those 3 guys. Kemba, Burks and Fournier for wall. It’s a true consolidation move but would have to be sure it makes us better. I assume Grimes would slot in as a starter. Drose, IQ, Reddish, Toppin and Noel/Gibson as the 5 off the bench. Does this make us a better team?
knicks1248
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1/25/2022  11:50 AM
I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

ES
martin
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1/25/2022  12:00 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?

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franco12
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1/25/2022  12:09 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

The Front Office was trading for time - Knox was gone after this year - they've recovered some value in that we have Cam for the next 2 years in a cost controlled fashion. He probably doesn't have a role currently, but I figure the FO is thinking that changes next year.

Maybe the consolidation is taking Grimes & Obi and bundling in a vet or two with that for a better piece like a Ben Simmons:

Fournier, Walker, Obi, Grimes & draft picks? for Simmons.

Then you start Simmons & RJ in the back court, Cam is then your starter at the SF with Randle and the assortment of centers (Noel, Mitch, Taj)

Call me crazy, but I almost like that from both sides - don't know if Philly gets a better deal than that?
ToddTT
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1/25/2022  12:15 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert

Have to move away from trade ideas that don't meet your goal's criteria. This does not consolidate, it just trades a wing for wing and then the Knicks somehow also add in 2 value plus assets. No one gives up a first and a 10 ten pick for the likes of an inefficient SG who makes $18M.

You’re right. I don’t disagree.

I find this civil discourse unacceptable and repugnant.

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
Nalod
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1/25/2022  12:18 PM
franco12 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

The Front Office was trading for time - Knox was gone after this year - they've recovered some value in that we have Cam for the next 2 years in a cost controlled fashion. He probably doesn't have a role currently, but I figure the FO is thinking that changes next year.

Maybe the consolidation is taking Grimes & Obi and bundling in a vet or two with that for a better piece like a Ben Simmons:

Fournier, Walker, Obi, Grimes & draft picks? for Simmons.

Then you start Simmons & RJ in the back court, Cam is then your starter at the SF with Randle and the assortment of centers (Noel, Mitch, Taj)

Call me crazy, but I almost like that from both sides - don't know if Philly gets a better deal than that?

Its a good take other than the 3 for 1 aspect but that can always be configured. Not sure you have to give that much but the concept is good for us. Question is does that make philly a real contender?
knicks1248
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1/25/2022  12:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/25/2022  12:23 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens.

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

ES
martin
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1/25/2022  12:30 PM
ToddTT wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert

Have to move away from trade ideas that don't meet your goal's criteria. This does not consolidate, it just trades a wing for wing and then the Knicks somehow also add in 2 value plus assets. No one gives up a first and a 10 ten pick for the likes of an inefficient SG who makes $18M.

You’re right. I don’t disagree.

I find this civil discourse unacceptable and repugnant.

We talkin about the same thing?

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martin
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1/25/2022  12:32 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens.

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

Maybe everyone but you understands that Cam was not traded to literally make an immediate impact as soon as he was healthy? Like literally the next game?

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ToddTT
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1/25/2022  12:49 PM
martin wrote:
ToddTT wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Burks, Toppin and a first for Caris LaVert

Have to move away from trade ideas that don't meet your goal's criteria. This does not consolidate, it just trades a wing for wing and then the Knicks somehow also add in 2 value plus assets. No one gives up a first and a 10 ten pick for the likes of an inefficient SG who makes $18M.

You’re right. I don’t disagree.

I find this civil discourse unacceptable and repugnant.

We talkin about the same thing?

No you buffoon, that’s intercourse!

No wonder Wally outmaneuvered you!

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
knicks1248
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1/25/2022  1:07 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

Maybe everyone but you understands that Cam was not traded to literally make an immediate impact as soon as he was healthy? Like literally the next game?

Dude that is clearly obvious and your missing the point

So Let me just flat out asked you

Who would you bench going fwd to add Cam to the rotation full time?

ES
jskinny35
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1/25/2022  1:19 PM
Know it's unpopular and doesn't fix all of the issues we have but I would consolidate the mistake signings of Fournier, Kemba and Randle (along with a 1st round pick) for Westbrook and Horton-Tucker/Nunn. Maybe get a third team involved to get back more - but LA is desperate to get rid of Westbrook so they may pay up if they could actually land some talent coming back - instead of a straight salary dump trade.

Unloading Fournier, Kemba and Randle's contract would free up a lot of money after next season and allow for improved minute consolidation.

Obtaining another 1st round pick could be worthwhile as Lebron will be retired by the time the pick conveys (2027).

Landing Horton-Tucker could offer another G prospect worth evaluating.

Losing Kemba doesn't really impact us (hurt mostly), losing Fournier allows more minutes for Grimes, losing Randle would impact us but truly believe we need to move on from him regardless.

Westbrook will play hard, serve as a mentor (for RJ to assume Randle's role) and then expire. Thibs loves players that penetrate and give there all. We'd only have him through next year anyway.

We could use the additional 1st pick and the available cap space to try to target a better player or package and upgrade.

Westbrook
RJ
Grimes
Toppin
Mitch

Bench
IQ/Horton Tucker
Burks
Reddish
Taj
Noel

Tell me why this would not help vs continuing to try to find the square pegs around Randle?
martin
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1/25/2022  1:22 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

Maybe everyone but you understands that Cam was not traded to literally make an immediate impact as soon as he was healthy? Like literally the next game?

Dude that is clearly obvious and your missing the point

So Let me just flat out asked you

Who would you bench going fwd to add Cam to the rotation full time?

I think the Knicks are going to make a trade to clean up the roster with the clear intention of getting Cam and some of the other young guys more minutes. Duh, right?

I think there are 2 types of trades the Knicks will look for: Trade Burks or someone for a bench rotation player who isn't playing in a 2 for 1 type deal where Knicks are the team to get 1 player back (with appropriate picks/assets). The other type of trade I see the Knicks doing is putting Randle in a big package going out. That'll really shake up rotations.

If they don't do any trades, after the trade deadline, I think they certainly sit Kemba.

If Grimes is ready for more minutes, I think Burks and Fournier's minutes get cut. From there we see Cam play if he earns and gets opportunity. Fournier is the main guy I see getting out of rotation especially if Grimes and Cam earn and really prove they need more minutes. Fournier will kick back after doing back-to-back with last season and the Olympics; he'll enjoy the rest and get ready for summer.

There is a chance that Rose is out longer than expected or maybe they ask him to really really really make sure his rehab is complete. And then tack on 2-4 weeks for good measure.

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knicks1248
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1/25/2022  1:37 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

Maybe everyone but you understands that Cam was not traded to literally make an immediate impact as soon as he was healthy? Like literally the next game?

Dude that is clearly obvious and your missing the point

So Let me just flat out asked you

Who would you bench going fwd to add Cam to the rotation full time?

I think the Knicks are going to make a trade to clean up the roster with the clear intention of getting Cam and some of the other young guys more minutes. Duh, right?

I think there are 2 types of trades the Knicks will look for: Trade Burks or someone for a bench rotation player who isn't playing in a 2 for 1 type deal where Knicks are the team to get 1 player back (with appropriate picks/assets). The other type of trade I see the Knicks doing is putting Randle in a big package going out. That'll really shake up rotations.

If they don't do any trades, after the trade deadline, I think they certainly sit Kemba.

If Grimes is ready for more minutes, I think Burks and Fournier's minutes get cut. From there we see Cam play if he earns and gets opportunity. Fournier is the main guy I see getting out of rotation especially if Grimes and Cam earn and really prove they need more minutes. Fournier will kick back after doing back-to-back with last season and the Olympics; he'll enjoy the rest and get ready for summer.

There is a chance that Rose is out longer than expected or maybe they ask him to really really really make sure his rehab is complete. And then tack on 2-4 weeks for good measure.


It certainly doesn't bode well for organization to trade it's TOP 2 Signings (Randle and Fournier) a 120 days after signing them long term, that's a clear signal of dysfunction.

Fournier is a guy (as we have saw) can light you for 25+ in a heart beat.

THE knicks Have 2 major problem

2 Redundant ceters in Mitch/Noel

2 Redundant pgs in Kemba/Rose

All 4 have serious health concerns and are unreliable

ES
martin
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1/25/2022  1:42 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure what this FO thinking process is

We just traded for a player that has no role, and not exactly a big need. I personally think they're shopping Burks and Fournier on the low, You didn't just give up Knox and a 1st rounder for a player who you have no use for..(That would be worse than I T trading KVH for Tim Thomas)

Signed another player on a 10 day contract that won't see a min of PT.

We need to get an actually player you can slide into the rotation without scratching your head wondering where he's going to fit

OBI, Mitch or Noel for Wendell Carter JR and a 2nd rnd pick

What? You think trades and the perfect in-season rotation have to be worked out all on the same day?


Considering where the team currently sits in the standings and less than Half the season left.

The moves should have immediate impacts especially if your pulling the trigger a month before the deadline..

Can you honestly see a scenario where CAM can crack the rotation for 20+ min unless an injury happens

So it doesn't matter if it's 1 day or 1 month. Thibs comes off as a guy who only makes changes when he has no other choice.

Maybe everyone but you understands that Cam was not traded to literally make an immediate impact as soon as he was healthy? Like literally the next game?

Dude that is clearly obvious and your missing the point

So Let me just flat out asked you

Who would you bench going fwd to add Cam to the rotation full time?

I think the Knicks are going to make a trade to clean up the roster with the clear intention of getting Cam and some of the other young guys more minutes. Duh, right?

I think there are 2 types of trades the Knicks will look for: Trade Burks or someone for a bench rotation player who isn't playing in a 2 for 1 type deal where Knicks are the team to get 1 player back (with appropriate picks/assets). The other type of trade I see the Knicks doing is putting Randle in a big package going out. That'll really shake up rotations.

If they don't do any trades, after the trade deadline, I think they certainly sit Kemba.

If Grimes is ready for more minutes, I think Burks and Fournier's minutes get cut. From there we see Cam play if he earns and gets opportunity. Fournier is the main guy I see getting out of rotation especially if Grimes and Cam earn and really prove they need more minutes. Fournier will kick back after doing back-to-back with last season and the Olympics; he'll enjoy the rest and get ready for summer.

There is a chance that Rose is out longer than expected or maybe they ask him to really really really make sure his rehab is complete. And then tack on 2-4 weeks for good measure.


It certainly doesn't bode well for organization to trade it's TOP 2 Signings (Randle and Fournier) a 120 days after signing them long term, that's a clear signal of dysfunction.

Fournier is a guy (as we have saw) can light you for 25+ in a heart beat.

THE knicks Have 2 major problem

2 Redundant ceters in Mitch/Noel

2 Redundant pgs in Kemba/Rose

All 4 have serious health concerns and are unreliable

LOL no it isn't. It's called making roster decisions.

Randle just had an MVP'esque season and you think it would have been better to not resign him?

If the Knicks are in a position to trade Randle it's not like they are getting nothing back, you understand that right? If he returns a solid role player and the picks you want, it's all good.

Do you think these things through?

When you trade a player, some times you are getting rid of a problem. Some times you are UPGRADING to what you want that is more valuable to you.

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jskinny35
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1/25/2022  1:47 PM
All FO make mistakes (bad signings, poor draft choices) at some point - the good ones don't let their pride/ego not allow them to correct mistakes by making future moves.

If we can make a move that improves our roster, helps with flexibility, consolidates minutes, etc - the bottom line is the end result (not how it looked).
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