Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
14m
Turner's been central to Indiana's trade talks, and a number of teams have shown interest. The injury doesn't make a trade impossible, but it certainly could be an obstacle in Pacers getting max value for him at deadline. Team can always wait for the offseason to make a deal too.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
18m

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https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1483496894785409025

Mitch basically just got that extension

ekstarks94 wrote:Indy went from demanding 2 1sts to a 2nd rounder and utility player. They might as well save him until the summer. Still do not think they will get 2 1sts.

They were never going to get what they were leaking- remember Ainge canvassed the league 2 offseasons ago when they were looking at doing a Hayward sign and trade with the pacers and they couldn’t find anyone who wanted him. Cam Reddish was also hyped all season as one of the most valuable trade targets and look what the Hawks ended up settling for

All that said, still want Turner and hope Robinson will become like Turner in 3 years or so.

NYKMentality wrote:Career Player Efficiency Rating.
Mitchell Robinson: 21.3.
Myles Turner: 16.3.

I think as NY fans we often overrate opposing teams players who we never even watch play basketball on a nightly and/or on a consistent basis (and I'm guilty of that too).

Mitchell Robinson imo is an elite PG with high I.Q + excellent passing ability away from becoming a perennial All-Star Center because with an elite run and gun PG; Mitchell Robinson would become physically unstoppable under the basket and especially once out on the fast break.

I don't think PER is the best way of comparing Turner and Robinson. I think if you look deeper into their "hustle" stats and such, you will see that Turner is generally the better player. Turner's PER is actually decreased by his willingness to take shots that are not dunks and Robinson's PER is increased by his insane FG%. But what both actually do doesn't really show up in PER that well -- which is play defense. The defense stats favor Turner though Robinson proponents might argue that Turner gets more block opportunities since Indiana's defensive set pushes ball handlers into the lane to challenge Turner.

If you look at things like blocks, rebounds, box outs, deflections, I think that's a better comparison of Robinson vs Turner. I'm not ANTI-Robinson so much as I think he still needs a few more years of getting used to his man-strength before he truly becomes a beast. I think Turner has those few years on him.

NYKMentality wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Career Player Efficiency Rating.
Mitchell Robinson: 21.3.
Myles Turner: 16.3.

I think as NY fans we often overrate opposing teams players who we never even watch play basketball on a nightly and/or on a consistent basis (and I'm guilty of that too).

Mitchell Robinson imo is an elite PG with high I.Q + excellent passing ability away from becoming a perennial All-Star Center because with an elite run and gun PG; Mitchell Robinson would become physically unstoppable under the basket and especially once out on the fast break.

I don't think PER is the best way of comparing Turner and Robinson. I think if you look deeper into their "hustle" stats and such, you will see that Turner is generally the better player. Turner's PER is actually decreased by his willingness to take shots that are not dunks and Robinson's PER is increased by his insane FG%. But what both actually do doesn't really show up in PER that well -- which is play defense. The defense stats favor Turner though Robinson proponents might argue that Turner gets more block opportunities since Indiana's defensive set pushes ball handlers into the lane to challenge Turner.

If you look at things like blocks, rebounds, box outs, deflections, I think that's a better comparison of Robinson vs Turner. I'm not ANTI-Robinson so much as I think he still needs a few more years of getting used to his man-strength before he truly becomes a beast. I think Turner has those few years on him.

I think the biggest difference is minutes played per game.

But what if we use Per 100 possessions in order to even out the playing time?

Mitchell Robinson: Per 100 possessions.
17.6 points.
15.2 rebounds.
4.1 blocks.
1.7 steals.
1.1 assists.
1.4 turnovers.
FG% of .720%.
141 Offensive Rating.
106 Defensive Rating.

Myles Turner: Per 100 possessions.
21.8 points.
11.4 rebounds.
3.9 blocks.
1.2 steals.
2.0 assists.
2.3 turnovers.
FG% of .489%.
111 Offensive Rating.
105 Defensive Rating.

I don't know man. I rarely ever watch Indiana Pacers games. But I just don't see a big enough statistical/gap between Myles Turner vs. Mitchell Robinson to warrant me wanting to trade for Myles Turner while kicking Mitchell Robinson to the curb?

If anything I'd want to trade two 2nd round picks and/or Deuce McBride + one 2nd round pick to replace Nerlens Noel in order to give our backup unit even more firepower.

C: Myles Turner.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Cam Reddish / Quentin Grimes.
SG: Immanuel Quickley / Alec Burks.
PG: Derrick Rose.

That looks like an A++ and potentially deadly backup unit.

Listen - I love Mitch Robinson and may be the sternest advocate for him getting a 4 year 52mm extension from the Knicks. That said, I think the stats you are picking are favorable to Robinson while significantly ignoring the differences in their games. I think they are similar players on defense, but that Turner has the edge there. I think on offense, Robinson's offensive prowess in the stats is a bit overstated by his lack of shot selection. I think when you get to the last 2 minutes of the game and you have Turner shooting 76% from the charity stripe and Robinson shooting 56%, the differences in their offensive skill sets will be readily apparent.

Mitch's offensive numbers come off a 10% usage rate, compared to Turner's 17%. Neither is featured in the offense. That offensive rating you cite (141) is perhaps the greatest of all time, and if you could guaranty that Robinson would get a putback on every possession, it would be valid. Its the same reason Rudy Gobert has the highest offensive rating of all time (126), because he doesn't really take shots on offense.

If you made Robinson and Turner take 10 shots from 10 different places throughout the court, I suggest that Turner would end up with more points. Turner is a marginally decent offensive player. Robinson's offense is non-existent but for putbacks and dunks.

On defense, Turner has a much higher calculation of Defensive Win Shares. Not to knock Robinson, but he has the potential to be as good as Turner, but I don't think he is there yet.

Last point on the Per 100s. Robinson's Personal Fouls Per 100 is 6.4. That means he is fouled out before he hits those numbers. Turner is at 5.4, meaning part of the reason he has more minutes is that he stays on the court longer. The fact that Turner is generally on the court for 30 mins a game and Robinson is closer to 24 mins is the personal fouls.

I can cherry pick other stats that favor Turner, but trust me I am a Robinson superfan. Turner is just ahead of him in development right now.

I am on the side of waiting and seeing what a consistent/healthy roster can do. It can be said that what Rose had envisioned has not had a true chance yet to gel. Due to injuries and need to have time to build some chemistry. Bringing in another mediocre piece does not change things. It will actually hurt things. Unless we can get a game-changing PG or C, rather we stay put, play out the year, draft some more pieces, see what FA's are available in the off-season without needing to give up assets, and then make some value trades. Think that is fortunately how Rose is thinking.

EwingsGlass wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Career Player Efficiency Rating.
Mitchell Robinson: 21.3.
Myles Turner: 16.3.

I think as NY fans we often overrate opposing teams players who we never even watch play basketball on a nightly and/or on a consistent basis (and I'm guilty of that too).

Mitchell Robinson imo is an elite PG with high I.Q + excellent passing ability away from becoming a perennial All-Star Center because with an elite run and gun PG; Mitchell Robinson would become physically unstoppable under the basket and especially once out on the fast break.

I don't think PER is the best way of comparing Turner and Robinson. I think if you look deeper into their "hustle" stats and such, you will see that Turner is generally the better player. Turner's PER is actually decreased by his willingness to take shots that are not dunks and Robinson's PER is increased by his insane FG%. But what both actually do doesn't really show up in PER that well -- which is play defense. The defense stats favor Turner though Robinson proponents might argue that Turner gets more block opportunities since Indiana's defensive set pushes ball handlers into the lane to challenge Turner.

If you look at things like blocks, rebounds, box outs, deflections, I think that's a better comparison of Robinson vs Turner. I'm not ANTI-Robinson so much as I think he still needs a few more years of getting used to his man-strength before he truly becomes a beast. I think Turner has those few years on him.

I think the biggest difference is minutes played per game.

But what if we use Per 100 possessions in order to even out the playing time?

Mitchell Robinson: Per 100 possessions.
17.6 points.
15.2 rebounds.
4.1 blocks.
1.7 steals.
1.1 assists.
1.4 turnovers.
FG% of .720%.
141 Offensive Rating.
106 Defensive Rating.

Myles Turner: Per 100 possessions.
21.8 points.
11.4 rebounds.
3.9 blocks.
1.2 steals.
2.0 assists.
2.3 turnovers.
FG% of .489%.
111 Offensive Rating.
105 Defensive Rating.

I don't know man. I rarely ever watch Indiana Pacers games. But I just don't see a big enough statistical/gap between Myles Turner vs. Mitchell Robinson to warrant me wanting to trade for Myles Turner while kicking Mitchell Robinson to the curb?

If anything I'd want to trade two 2nd round picks and/or Deuce McBride + one 2nd round pick to replace Nerlens Noel in order to give our backup unit even more firepower.

C: Myles Turner.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Cam Reddish / Quentin Grimes.
SG: Immanuel Quickley / Alec Burks.
PG: Derrick Rose.

That looks like an A++ and potentially deadly backup unit.

Listen - I love Mitch Robinson and may be the sternest advocate for him getting a 4 year 52mm extension from the Knicks. That said, I think the stats you are picking are favorable to Robinson while significantly ignoring the differences in their games. I think they are similar players on defense, but that Turner has the edge there. I think on offense, Robinson's offensive prowess in the stats is a bit overstated by his lack of shot selection. I think when you get to the last 2 minutes of the game and you have Turner shooting 76% from the charity stripe and Robinson shooting 56%, the differences in their offensive skill sets will be readily apparent.

Mitch's offensive numbers come off a 10% usage rate, compared to Turner's 17%. Neither is featured in the offense. That offensive rating you cite (141) is perhaps the greatest of all time, and if you could guaranty that Robinson would get a putback on every possession, it would be valid. Its the same reason Rudy Gobert has the highest offensive rating of all time (126), because he doesn't really take shots on offense.

If you made Robinson and Turner take 10 shots from 10 different places throughout the court, I suggest that Turner would end up with more points. Turner is a marginally decent offensive player. Robinson's offense is non-existent but for putbacks and dunks.

On defense, Turner has a much higher calculation of Defensive Win Shares. Not to knock Robinson, but he has the potential to be as good as Turner, but I don't think he is there yet.

Last point on the Per 100s. Robinson's Personal Fouls Per 100 is 6.4. That means he is fouled out before he hits those numbers. Turner is at 5.4, meaning part of the reason he has more minutes is that he stays on the court longer. The fact that Turner is generally on the court for 30 mins a game and Robinson is closer to 24 mins is the personal fouls.

I can cherry pick other stats that favor Turner, but trust me I am a Robinson superfan. Turner is just ahead of him in development right now.

Great analysis