franco12 wrote:And if Thibs can bench Kemba to wake him up, if that was in fact the strategy, how many games does Randle need to sit to wake up? Maybe we need Health & Safety protocols to save Thibs from himself.

The Knicks don't win 20 games without Julius Randle last year.

And the Knicks wouldn't have more than 5 wins without Julius Randle this year.

And coach Thibs knows that.

Julius Randle leads the team in minutes played.

Julius Randle leads the team in points scored.

Julius Randle leads the team in assists.

Julius Randle leads the team in rebounds.

Julius Randle is 2nd in blocks and 3rd in steals.

This Julius Randle hate is extreme and imo it's absolutely disgusting. We would not have not even 5 wins without him because even when he's struggling shooting, he still COMPETES and takes all the PRESSURE off of younger kids (as our veteran leader).

And for those of you harping all over his DEFENSE?!? He's #1 on our team in Defensive Win Share

Less than a 5 win team without him.

Sure Thibs needs to get in Randles ear and make him see the mistakes but WE NEED our best player to lead the Knicks. That's Randle

Swishfm3 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:This Julius Randle hate is disgusting.

He led us to the playoffs last year as an All-Star.

And this year? He's taking ALL OF THE PRESSURE OFF OF THESE YOUNGER KIDS and putting it all on himself.

This year his 3 ball has yet to fall but his numbers outside of FG% are damn near identical to last year

I personally love Julius Randle and appreciate him.

Dude got 15 rebounds last night but yet OP is calling him out. Pathetic.

The people calling for Randle's head are the ones that, for some odd reason, feel Obi Topping should be starting and playing 30+ minutes a night.

ignore them

Obi Toppin deserves more minutes. He's #1 on our team in Player Efficiency Rating but I personally believe Thibs is developing him the right way. Obi is coach Thibs 1st draft pick in NY and I believe Thibs has a long term plan for Obi.

But this Julius Randle hate is disgusting. He's our most dominant player and the ONLY PLAYER who can take pressure off of all of these younger kids 23 years of age and younger (6-7 of them).

He'd easily be a 30 PPG player if the refs didn't let him get beat up every game without giving him superstar calls, something Randle critics refuse to acknowledge.

NYKMentality wrote:

franco12 wrote:And if Thibs can bench Kemba to wake him up, if that was in fact the strategy, how many games does Randle need to sit to wake up? Maybe we need Health & Safety protocols to save Thibs from himself.

The Knicks don't win 20 games without Julius Randle last year.

And the Knicks wouldn't have more than 5 wins without Julius Randle this year.

And coach Thibs knows that.

Julius Randle leads the team in minutes played.

Julius Randle leads the team in points scored.

Julius Randle leads the team in assists.

Julius Randle leads the team in rebounds.

Julius Randle is 2nd in blocks and 3rd in steals.

This Julius Randle hate is extreme and imo it's absolutely disgusting. We would not have not even 5 wins without him because even when he's struggling shooting, he still COMPETES and takes all the PRESSURE off of younger kids (as our veteran leader).

And for those of you harping all over his DEFENSE?!? He's #1 on our team in Defensive Win Share

Less than a 5 win team without him.

The post was about how Randle is playing worse than last year. He definitely is but so are RJ, Mitch (before recent stretch), EF and Kemba (until recently). The only impressive stat you mentioned above is his rebounding. He should lead the team in assists as he brings the ball up, isolates much of the time, etc... he should lead the team in points because it's all run through him.

The truth is almost always somewhere between the two extremes. This season is not all Randle's fault, but it's also partially his (and Thibs fault) since he is underperforming and they continue to run everything through him. I wouldn't mind Randle taking a turn in the health and safety protocol simply because it would be the only way to see what playing without him would actually look like. I do believe we would look much better in spurts and struggle at times when the game slows down. I don't believe inserting Toppin would make us better, but I do suspect that it may help other players perform better (eg Kemba, RJ, etc) as the pace is faster and the ball moves more.

If this is the roster going forward (no trades) - how about these practice ideas?

Give Randle a ball that is heated up so when he touches it he has to pass or shoot within 3 seconds (hot potato)
Don't allow Mitch to play minutes unless he takes 3 shots outside the paint (eventually that will pay off)
Place Kemba (and Rose when he returns) in cryogenic chambers after each game and alternate their game days as we can play McBride minutes
Consider putting Grimes in place of Fournier as the defense is better and EF could help the second unit young players

ccch wrote:I know there will be a lot of people on this board that won't agree with this post. If you don't I would like to know why.

1. Doesn't play D
2. Lopes up and down the floor...no hustle
3. Starting to complain on almost every call.
4. Dribbles right into double teams when he has a wide open 15-17 footer
5. When he does dribble into trouble he has no court awareness that player run at him on his blind side and strip away the ball.
6. Can't function under pressure...either misses free throws, throws the ball away, forces bad shots or just plain gets stripped.
7. No sense of game situations...must have a low basketball IQ

Don't know why Thibs plays him so much but I think Thibs will figure it out. If he benched Kemba he sure as heck can cut down his playing time especially when he's playing like zombie. On balance I thing this team would be better without him...does more damage that good.

NYKMentality wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

franco12 wrote:And if Thibs can bench Kemba to wake him up, if that was in fact the strategy, how many games does Randle need to sit to wake up? Maybe we need Health & Safety protocols to save Thibs from himself.

The Knicks don't win 20 games without Julius Randle last year.

And the Knicks wouldn't have more than 5 wins without Julius Randle this year.

And coach Thibs knows that.

Julius Randle leads the team in minutes played.

Julius Randle leads the team in points scored.

Julius Randle leads the team in assists.

Julius Randle leads the team in rebounds.

Julius Randle is 2nd in blocks and 3rd in steals.

This Julius Randle hate is extreme and imo it's absolutely disgusting. We would not have not even 5 wins without him because even when he's struggling shooting, he still COMPETES and takes all the PRESSURE off of younger kids (as our veteran leader).

And for those of you harping all over his DEFENSE?!? He's #1 on our team in Defensive Win Share

Less than a 5 win team without him.

The post was about how Randle is playing worse than last year. He definitely is but so are RJ, Mitch (before recent stretch), EF and Kemba (until recently). The only impressive stat you mentioned above is his rebounding. He should lead the team in assists as he brings the ball up, isolates much of the time, etc... he should lead the team in points because it's all run through him.

The truth is almost always somewhere between the two extremes. This season is not all Randle's fault, but it's also partially his (and Thibs fault) since he is underperforming and they continue to run everything through him. I wouldn't mind Randle taking a turn in the health and safety protocol simply because it would be the only way to see what playing without him would actually look like. I do believe we would look much better in spurts and struggle at times when the game slows down. I don't believe inserting Toppin would make us better, but I do suspect that it may help other players perform better (eg Kemba, RJ, etc) as the pace is faster and the ball moves more.

If this is the roster going forward (no trades) - how about these practice ideas?

Give Randle a ball that is heated up so when he touches it he has to pass or shoot within 3 seconds (hot potato)
Don't allow Mitch to play minutes unless he takes 3 shots outside the paint (eventually that will pay off)
Place Kemba (and Rose when he returns) in cryogenic chambers after each game and alternate their game days as we can play McBride minutes
Consider putting Grimes in place of Fournier as the defense is better and EF could help the second unit young players

Great post but I just think that this thread Title is extreme.

So now he lopes around?

Julius Randle leads the team in minutes played.

Julius Randle leads the team in points scored.

Julius Randle leads the team in assists.

Julius Randle leads the team in rebounds.

Julius Randle is 2nd in blocks and 3rd in steals.

Julius Randle is #1 on our team in Defensive Win Share.

That is the complete opposite of a LOPE.

And of course his 2021 season hasn't been 2020. Last year he put up stat lines that haven't been accomplished since Larry Birds MVP season of I believe 1986.

Yes. His FG% and 3PT% is down and therefore some fans harp all over him because of it.

No mention of his #1 Defensive Win Share ranking though.

I just appreciate Julius Randle because he's without question our most dominant player and the only player who takes pressure off of his younger teammates every single night.

You keep going to raw stats like it means something? He plays the most on the team and the offense goes through him. Of course he is going to lead the team in raw stats. You expect Obi to compete with Randle's raw stats when he can barely get more than 15 minutes? If you want to use a stat use PER. This takes into account all those raw stats and all your missed shots and turnovers.

Last Year:
Randle PER = 19.73
Rose PER = 18.83
Obi PER = 12.79

This Year:
Randle PER = 16.79
Rose PER = 18.00
Obi PER = 20.76

Per is a mostly offense advanced stat and it is clear he has taken a dip there. On defense, if Randle is 1st on defense win share it is a junk stat. How many videos of him completely giving up on defense do we need to see. Just last game Breen thought he was injured because he gave up on the play rather than trying to get around a simple screen. I guess that would not count against Randle because the guy missed the open shot. This is why stats alone are a bad way to talk basketball. Every game you have multiple videos of him walking up the court causing mismatches or just giving up on defensive plays. His overall effort level has tapered off once he signed that contract. It seems to only comes back vs the Nets and nationally televised games.

foosballnick wrote:If nothing else some Knicks fans are predictable in wanting to run their best players out of town. Its a trend thats been going on for years. This is not to say the team couldn't use an even better player on the roster for JR to play along with.

I can't speak for other posters but all I want from him is less ISO's and more effort on D. That does not seem to be extreme. How would that run him out of town?

HofstraBBall wrote:Think many of the complaints are valid. Randle is not playing his best ball. But in what universe does a fan suggest benching their best player? This thought has no grip with the reality of what the Knicks need let alone the business of the NBA. The Knicks NEED Randle to get back to the level he was at last year. If they don't, we do nothing this year. Thibs knows that. Benching him so that everyone's dream scenerio of Obi becoming an instant superstar does nothing to make that happen. Unless everyone thinks there is a better chance of Obi (a second year player who can dunk, run the floor and can't shoot) becoming an instant star over a guy who has been a double double his whole career, played All Star level basketball, was our MVP last year.

Sure Thibs needs to get in Randles ear and make him see the mistakes but WE NEED our best player to lead the Knicks. That's Randle

So we are clear, the thread was started by someone stating we should bench/ get rid of Randle.