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BigDaddyG
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12/5/2021  2:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2021  2:32 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG.
But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.

100% and he is getting better at PG duties.


I view them both as combos and honestly, I could see them sharing a backcourt. Deuce is strong, with a good wingspan. He could cover two guards if needed. The only question I have with Deuce is his ability to get to the rim. He can get in the paint, especially when he's downhill, but he settles for too many jumpers in the midrange. Perhaps he can carve out a Sam Cassell type niche?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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BigDaddyG
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12/5/2021  2:39 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm 100% convinced Rokubatis will make it to NBA and be a good rotation player at a minimum.

Don't discount him; the metrics and stats etc are way different or should be looked at through a different lens than what we expect when looking at kids in college or the GLeague.

I think if you asked a Euro scout and a GLeague scout to give their takes on Rokus/Deuce, both would be equally pumped about their respective prospects in the NBA.

One thing about Rokas that I overlooked is that he's a legit 6'4" (some sites have him at 6'5", but I don't buy it). That helps me explain the disconnect between his shooting percentages at the rim and his son's explosiveness. There were Dragic comparisons going in the draft and I can see some similarities. They're both aggressive going to the rim. But the more I watch Rokas play, the more I'm reminded of an in shape Beno Udrih. Beno was a good player and starter. You can't complain is that's what you get out of a second round pick.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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12/5/2021  2:52 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm 100% convinced Rokubatis will make it to NBA and be a good rotation player at a minimum.

Don't discount him; the metrics and stats etc are way different or should be looked at through a different lens than what we expect when looking at kids in college or the GLeague.

I think if you asked a Euro scout and a GLeague scout to give their takes on Rokus/Deuce, both would be equally pumped about their respective prospects in the NBA.

One thing about Rokas that I overlooked is that he's a legit 6'4" (some sites have him at 6'5", but I don't buy it). That helps me explain the disconnect between his shooting percentages at the rim and his son's explosiveness. There were Dragic comparisons going in the draft and I can see some similarities. They're both aggressive going to the rim. But the more I watch Rokas play, the more I'm reminded of an in shape Beno Udrih. Beno was a good player and starter. You can't complain is that's what you get out of a second round pick.

For whatever reason, physically Rokas reminds me of a smaller Doncic

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fishmike
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12/7/2021  11:51 AM
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride.
The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples.
But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing.
He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil.
But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.

I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG.
But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.

I love him

He reminds me a lot of Marcus Smart. Really powerful athlete that just into you and knows how you use his gifts.

BUT

He shot like 40% from 2 and 30% from 3 in one year in college.

He's been lighting up the G league for sure... we have no idea what his NBA scoring chops are going to be like and lets face it its a scorer's league. But I do really like the TYPE of prospect he is, and his defense and energy can surely be a part of a nice bench crew in the (NEAR) future.

Not saying he's got it or doesnt... just who knows. He's sure doing what you would want in the G league, which is straight up kicking ass.

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Luka Samanic	7	7	31.9	10.4	19.0	.549	2.4	5.9	.415	8.0	13.1	.609	2.6	2.9	.900	2.9	7.7	10.6	3.3	0.4	0.7	4.1	3.1	27.9
2	Miles McBride	4	4	39.5	10.3	21.0	.488	3.8	9.0	.417	6.5	12.0	.542	1.8	1.8	1.000	2.0	4.0	6.0	8.5	1.8	0.3	2.8	2.3	26.8
3	Brndon Williams	6	4	28.0	5.0	13.8	.361	1.5	5.7	.265	3.5	8.2	.429	3.0	3.3	.900	1.0	2.3	3.3	4.0	1.5	0.8	3.8	2.0	16.8
4	Aamir Simms	9	9	32.6	5.4	12.1	.450	1.6	4.1	.378	3.9	8.0	.486	1.2	1.4	.846	2.0	6.4	8.4	3.0	1.2	1.0	1.6	3.9	14.9
5	Brandon Goodwin	5	3	33.8	5.4	12.8	.422	2.2	5.8	.379	3.2	7.0	.457	1.0	2.2	.455	1.2	3.2	4.4	6.0	2.0	0.6	3.4	1.6	14.4
6	Tyler Hall	10	10	37.9	4.7	11.6	.405	3.2	9.2	.348	1.5	2.4	.625	1.3	1.5	.867	0.4	3.7	4.1	3.4	1.6	0.4	0.9	2.0	14.4
7	M.J. Walker	9	7	28.0	3.2	7.9	.408	1.6	4.0	.389	1.7	3.9	.429	0.6	0.8	.714	0.9	2.3	3.2	1.7	1.2	0.4	1.1	3.4	9.0
8	V.J. King	10	2	20.7	2.8	6.1	.459	0.7	2.0	.350	2.1	4.1	.512	0.7	0.9	.778	0.9	3.1	4.0	0.5	0.3	0.1	0.7	1.3	7.5
9	Quinton Rose	10	1	26.0	2.8	7.8	.359	0.8	3.6	.222	2.0	4.2	.476	0.2	0.6	.333	0.2	1.8	2.0	1.1	1.6	0.5	1.3	2.0	6.8
10	Kethan Savage	9	1	18.7	2.1	4.7	.452	0.9	2.0	.444	1.2	2.7	.458	0.9	1.1	.800	0.7	1.9	2.6	1.9	0.7	0.2	1.4	1.2	6.2
11	Lydell Elmore	8	2	12.5	1.9	2.5	.750	0.0	0.0		1.9	2.5	.750	0.1	0.3	.500	2.0	1.6	3.6	0.1	0.5	1.0	1.4	1.8	3.

Can play better than that

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Clean
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12/7/2021  12:43 PM
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride.
The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples.
But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing.
He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil.
But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.

I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG.
But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.

I love him

He reminds me a lot of Marcus Smart. Really powerful athlete that just into you and knows how you use his gifts.

BUT

He shot like 40% from 2 and 30% from 3 in one year in college.

He's been lighting up the G league for sure... we have no idea what his NBA scoring chops are going to be like and lets face it its a scorer's league. But I do really like the TYPE of prospect he is, and his defense and energy can surely be a part of a nice bench crew in the (NEAR) future.

Not saying he's got it or doesnt... just who knows. He's sure doing what you would want in the G league, which is straight up kicking ass.


Can play better than that

The wonderful thing about McBride is that even if he takes a step back on offense when he makes the Jump to the NBA he will always have his defense. The the wonderful thing about 2 way players. They have more than 1 way to help you win.
Panos
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12/15/2021  12:07 PM
And so it begins...
fwk00
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12/15/2021  12:19 PM
How Quickley they forget.
Panos
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12/15/2021  12:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/15/2021  12:34 PM
fwk00 wrote:How Quickley they forget.

I see what you did there.

VERY different players, btw.
fwk00
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12/15/2021  12:40 PM
Panos wrote:
fwk00 wrote:How Quickley they forget.

I see what you did there.

VERY different players, btw.

We've been down these back roads so often in my 60 (more or less) years of being a Knicks fan that getting too excited by players at the end of the bench is a thrill that's lost its thrill.
fitzfarm
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12/15/2021  12:51 PM
I think it’s pretty sweet that the draft has treated us well the past two years . Would like to see sims get burn too, especially with how poor Noel and Robinson have played .

Sims
Obi
Grimes
IQ
McBride

I feel all of them are rotation worthy players and with how poor the vets have played I think all of us are excited to see the kids get burn . If we keep falling by the all star break I expect us to let the kids play . Plus Randle, rose, Mitch and RJ everyone else I could careless if they even see the court .
Clean
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12/15/2021  12:57 PM

A nice thread on the good and bad from McBride last night. Click it to see more analysis.
Clean
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12/15/2021  1:18 PM
knicks1248
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12/15/2021  1:53 PM
Since when you have to be a certain age to bring effort and energy.
ES
NYKBocker
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12/15/2021  2:40 PM
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm 100% convinced Rokubatis will make it to NBA and be a good rotation player at a minimum.

Don't discount him; the metrics and stats etc are way different or should be looked at through a different lens than what we expect when looking at kids in college or the GLeague.

I think if you asked a Euro scout and a GLeague scout to give their takes on Rokus/Deuce, both would be equally pumped about their respective prospects in the NBA.

One thing about Rokas that I overlooked is that he's a legit 6'4" (some sites have him at 6'5", but I don't buy it). That helps me explain the disconnect between his shooting percentages at the rim and his son's explosiveness. There were Dragic comparisons going in the draft and I can see some similarities. They're both aggressive going to the rim. But the more I watch Rokas play, the more I'm reminded of an in shape Beno Udrih. Beno was a good player and starter. You can't complain is that's what you get out of a second round pick.

For whatever reason, physically Rokas reminds me of a smaller Doncic

I made this comparison already before, but Rokas reminds me Šarūnas Marčiulionis
Clean
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12/15/2021  3:00 PM

Out of all the bad this season there is some good.
SupremeCommander
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12/15/2021  4:03 PM
I am bullish on him and Grimes... I would get both into the rotation because maybe their hunger and desire to proves themselves rubs off on these guys acting as though they have arrived
Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
Nalod
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12/15/2021  4:23 PM
Those tweets are so encouraging! Then when Thibs don't act on them we get mad tweets. Those are so not encouraging!
Then if the young guys play, we are "Tanking"?
Sims is not that good (yet). Not better than Norlens. Not better than Mitch.
Grimes, nice tweets. Looks great when the shot is falling. If not, he is a me first player? I got to see more. I saw nice things, but im not
calling him the future yet. Good to see Kevin get some burn.
And..........
Nice to see Randle have a really good second half!
NYKMentality
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12/15/2021  7:55 PM
R.J. Barrett.
Quentin Grimes.
Miles McBride.
Immanuel Quickley.

It's been a long time coming but NY now finally has TALENTED guards.

They are all super young too.

Marv
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12/15/2021  7:55 PM
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league.
I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples.
I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads.
I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett.
I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.

But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride.
The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples.
But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing.
He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil.
But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.

I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG.
But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.

I love him

He reminds me a lot of Marcus Smart. Really powerful athlete that just into you and knows how you use his gifts.

BUT

He shot like 40% from 2 and 30% from 3 in one year in college.

He's been lighting up the G league for sure... we have no idea what his NBA scoring chops are going to be like and lets face it its a scorer's league. But I do really like the TYPE of prospect he is, and his defense and energy can surely be a part of a nice bench crew in the (NEAR) future.

Not saying he's got it or doesnt... just who knows. He's sure doing what you would want in the G league, which is straight up kicking ass.

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Luka Samanic	7	7	31.9	10.4	19.0	.549	2.4	5.9	.415	8.0	13.1	.609	2.6	2.9	.900	2.9	7.7	10.6	3.3	0.4	0.7	4.1	3.1	27.9
2	Miles McBride	4	4	39.5	10.3	21.0	.488	3.8	9.0	.417	6.5	12.0	.542	1.8	1.8	1.000	2.0	4.0	6.0	8.5	1.8	0.3	2.8	2.3	26.8
3	Brndon Williams	6	4	28.0	5.0	13.8	.361	1.5	5.7	.265	3.5	8.2	.429	3.0	3.3	.900	1.0	2.3	3.3	4.0	1.5	0.8	3.8	2.0	16.8
4	Aamir Simms	9	9	32.6	5.4	12.1	.450	1.6	4.1	.378	3.9	8.0	.486	1.2	1.4	.846	2.0	6.4	8.4	3.0	1.2	1.0	1.6	3.9	14.9
5	Brandon Goodwin	5	3	33.8	5.4	12.8	.422	2.2	5.8	.379	3.2	7.0	.457	1.0	2.2	.455	1.2	3.2	4.4	6.0	2.0	0.6	3.4	1.6	14.4
6	Tyler Hall	10	10	37.9	4.7	11.6	.405	3.2	9.2	.348	1.5	2.4	.625	1.3	1.5	.867	0.4	3.7	4.1	3.4	1.6	0.4	0.9	2.0	14.4
7	M.J. Walker	9	7	28.0	3.2	7.9	.408	1.6	4.0	.389	1.7	3.9	.429	0.6	0.8	.714	0.9	2.3	3.2	1.7	1.2	0.4	1.1	3.4	9.0
8	V.J. King	10	2	20.7	2.8	6.1	.459	0.7	2.0	.350	2.1	4.1	.512	0.7	0.9	.778	0.9	3.1	4.0	0.5	0.3	0.1	0.7	1.3	7.5
9	Quinton Rose	10	1	26.0	2.8	7.8	.359	0.8	3.6	.222	2.0	4.2	.476	0.2	0.6	.333	0.2	1.8	2.0	1.1	1.6	0.5	1.3	2.0	6.8
10	Kethan Savage	9	1	18.7	2.1	4.7	.452	0.9	2.0	.444	1.2	2.7	.458	0.9	1.1	.800	0.7	1.9	2.6	1.9	0.7	0.2	1.4	1.2	6.2
11	Lydell Elmore	8	2	12.5	1.9	2.5	.750	0.0	0.0		1.9	2.5	.750	0.1	0.3	.500	2.0	1.6	3.6	0.1	0.5	1.0	1.4	1.8	3.

Can play better than that

fish that was in his first year of college. in his 2nd he hit .414 on 3's on 4.8 attempts/game
ramtour420
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12/15/2021  10:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/15/2021  10:36 PM
NYKMentality wrote:R.J. Barrett.
Quentin Grimes.
Miles McBride.
Immanuel Quickley.

It's been a long time coming but NY now finally has TALENTED guards.

They are all super young too.


And now the question is do we stay the course and develop or do we trade them all for Lillard or some other older star as soon as they gather interest from the league?
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
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