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The day after........
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diderotn
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11/10/2004  7:12 AM
I don't know if I can say that Lenny has finally gotten it, or he just performs better with the heat up his a**. However, there is one thing to be noted: the players are now hearing the call to play better basket. The addition of Suhr on the bench could prove to be genius, because his ability to coach defense is exactly what Lenny doesn't have. We have taken the first steps, and I do expect for my team to take many more.

There is one thing that I would love for Isiah to address as soon as possible. I know that Kurt Thomas is a darling for most Knicks fans, but his presence on our squad is slowing the development of our front-court. We got too many Thomas' on our payroll and at least one of them has to go. I wouldn't rid of Tiny Tim just yet, because there are so many things that this cat can do. Kurt Thomas has been with the Knicks for so long, and throughout the time that he has been around, this Knicks franchise has had nothing but losing records. Again, I know that he has done his best, but his best will never take us far. As for now, his stocks are really high around the league. Therefore, I expect for Isiah to trade him by mid-season.

My ten games prediction: I expect this resurgent team to have a record of 6-4. Tiny Timmy will see better days very soon, Suhr unlike Wilkens will tell him to hit the board and be more aggressive at going to the basket instead of settling for jumpers. Lenny has been asking this dude to keep on shooting, but I have yet to read where he has made mention of TT lack of foul attempts.
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martin
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11/10/2004  9:01 AM
here is what I saw in the game that I liked:

- Marb and Craw were going to the basket instead of just shooting the ball.

- Marb did not have an ill-advised shot that I remember. I can't remember the last game that that has happened.

- Craw did have a lot of 3's, but they were there and he just missed them.

- Sweets is a beast in the post. He has it going to the basket and does have the fadaway.

- Sweets impressed me the most with his help defense and deflections. The guy caused so many opponents to either change direction or slow down that it was noticable. He must be watching game tapes of Kurt.

- Sweets will start to have foul calls go his way. I think the refs still think he is a rook.

- Ariza CAN shoot the ball. I seriously hope he does NOT develop a 3 point shot for 2 or 3 years and just keeps drilling the mid-range. Once the bulk and the mid-range shot are there, this guy is going to be unstoppable.

- I like the offensive effort last night, not so sure of the defensive one. I think the Knicks got lucky with TONs of deflection and the fact that they didn't have to defend a real big man. The rotating D can get better, but it's still early.

- I like the 9-10 man rotation. And I don't care if Vin sits.

- Penny looked slow, but he is sooo good off the bench. I don't know what it is, but his saviness just oozes.

- No Moochie was another Wilkens winner. Have Craw play some PG; it worked.

- I would like to see more JYD, but it just didn't work out yesterday. I guess that's what happens when you have 3 fouls in 3 minutes. Who does he think he is, Nazr?

- When the Knicks can get stops or defensive rebounds, they are a dangerous team. They are just too quick.

- Can someone explain to TT what a rebound is? Show him tapes of Sweets and Ariza.
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Nalod
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11/10/2004  9:12 AM
Team has to have a sense of urgency. TT's minutes have been put on notice. Vins also. Last year and years before minutes were based on contract. We are deep.

I don't think Lenny did anything that much different. Suhr would not have that much effect in a short period of time.

We had a good opponent to beat, and we executed.

Some posters said be patient, and thats what happend last night. Nothing drastic, just more fine tuning. Its still early, a work in progress.
OasisBU
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11/10/2004  9:23 AM
I cant believe its game 3 and the NY Media and fans are acting like its game 7 against the Lakers.

This team will get it together - there are a lot of new faces and we are still missing H20, regardless of how you feel about him the guy brings a lot to the table for this team. We still need a CENTER!!! Give them time.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
fishmike
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11/10/2004  11:07 AM
I don't know if I can say that Lenny has finally gotten it, or he just performs better with the heat up his a**. However, there is one thing to be noted: the players are now hearing the call to play better basket.
I'm glad you answered your own point. This is 100% to do with the players. Lenny has been drilling this from the get go. Notice TT didnt play much and WASNT in foul trouble? Lenny doesnt care if your making 600k or $14mm... if you play hard on D your getting minutes.

Please stop thinking that Lenny is responsible for effort. Marbury needs to fight over screens. Iverson does for 4 quarters, why does Steph only for the 4th quarter? We just take too many plays off on D. Hopefully the emergence of Sweetney and Ariza and minutes Lenny will give them sets a fire under some of the vets.

Martin... good call on Penny. He makes so many good "first" passes. The ones that dont show in the box score but when he makes them the ball moves and finds an open player. He's still got some nice moves around the hoop and he's a good smart vet off the bench. I think from his demeanor he's really embracing his role.
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diderotn
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11/10/2004  12:20 PM
Well, It is like I said, Lenny did a good job rotating players. For him to be so unsure after going through half of a season and a full preseason with his rotation is bothersome. Isiah only brought in two players, and that is two players that he is very familiar with. If you can coach, there is no reason why you shouldn't know what your rotation should be right now. As for the decision to instill Suhr as an assistant coach, in my opinion, it is a brilliant move. Lenny has been sleep walking through seasons after season since his last two years with Toronto. Wheter or not the coach that got fired had something to do with that is questionable, but intriguing. At 71, and Lenny is perhaps 65, the brain doesn't function at 100%. Hubie Brown is old, but his assistant coaches are not older than him.

I applaude Isiah for putting Suhr on the bench, and most of all, for not rushing to fire Lenny. One is never too old to learn, therefore, Lenny should be very happy for the choices that Isiah has instilled around him as coaches. Lenny is knowledgeabe, and we should juice his knowledge to the fullest for the 5 million per year that he is receiving. His game management may be questionable, that will be Suhr's job for now on, but teaching Marb and the other guards will be Lenny's job
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fishmike
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11/10/2004  12:36 PM
man... where do you come up with this stuff?

If you can coach, there is no reason why you shouldn't know what your rotation should be right now.
Do you coach? At the NBA level?

And why are you knocking KT? Right now we dont need guys like TT to do more, we need more of what KT is bringing. Marbury and Crawford can put the ball in basket. We need guys to go get that ball, to play tough D, to start fast breaks with defensive boards...

Lenny obviously has a plan, and thats to keep getting Sweetney and Ariza minutes because they are really the keys to our success. Whats this about being too old to coach? Hubie sucked in his first season, and their team showed little improvement. They were great last year despite a first round exit and they are struggling this year. One thing they are struggling with is their ROTATION. Anytime you add new guys to a mix it takes time to adjust. Time being 20 games or half a season, not a training camp. Geeze... holy waffles batman
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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11/10/2004  12:40 PM
The thing that has hurt our rotation the most is the ineffectiveness of TT, Vinny Baker and until last night Nazr. A coach cannot plan for his starter and third option on offense being completely irrelevant. TT is expected to be a key contibutor and his inability to do anything has hurt Lenny, the Knicks and altered our rotation.
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fishmike
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11/10/2004  12:46 PM
maybe Lenny just didnt properly motivate Timmy?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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11/10/2004  12:49 PM
seriously though... this is where the depth is so important. Let Jerome come in and fight, let Sweetney play more, let a 19 year old rookie from the 2nd round play more minutes than your starter..

This isnt bad rotations, its bad play. Its just called trying to find a combo of players that can do something positive. How can it possibly be Lenny's fault when TT goes 1-8 from the field with no rebounds?

How?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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11/10/2004  12:51 PM
Well, It is like I said, Lenny did a good job rotating players. For him to be so unsure after going through half of a season and a full preseason with his rotation is bothersome. Isiah only brought in two players, and that is two players that he is very familiar with. If you can coach, there is no reason why you shouldn't know what your rotation should be right now. As for the decision to instill Suhr as an assistant coach, in my opinion, it is a brilliant move. Lenny has been sleep walking through seasons after season since his last two years with Toronto. Wheter or not the coach that got fired had something to do with that is questionable, but intriguing. At 71, and Lenny is perhaps 65, the brain doesn't function at 100%. Hubie Brown is old, but his assistant coaches are not older than him.

I applaude Isiah for putting Suhr on the bench, and most of all, for not rushing to fire Lenny. One is never too old to learn, therefore, Lenny should be very happy for the choices that Isiah has instilled around him as coaches. Lenny is knowledgeabe, and we should juice his knowledge to the fullest for the 5 million per year that he is receiving. His game management may be questionable, that will be Suhr's job for now on, but teaching Marb and the other guards will be Lenny's job
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Bippity10
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11/10/2004  12:54 PM
Fish: As I've learned on the MSG board, some people don't get it. Move on.
I just hope that people will like me
diderotn
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11/10/2004  12:56 PM
It is his fault because he can't communicate to TT that he needs to try to shoot at least 4 or 5 foul shots per game. After three games, this dude has only been to the line 2 times. That is pittiful, and it is Lenny's job to demand that from his players. Stop shooting, take it to the rack. If you have guys taking about 15 shots a game is only shooting 25% and no free throw, you have to question their decision making. That is Lenny sole job as a coach during the game.


Posted by fishmike:

seriously though... this is where the depth is so important. Let Jerome come in and fight, let Sweetney play more, let a 19 year old rookie from the 2nd round play more minutes than your starter..

This isnt bad rotations, its bad play. Its just called trying to find a combo of players that can do something positive. How can it possibly be Lenny's fault when TT goes 1-8 from the field with no rebounds?

How?
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Bippity10
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11/10/2004  1:15 PM
Sweetney has gone to the line 18 times in 67 minutes. That's once every 3.5 minutes. In college he got to the line 10 times a game. He has always been good at getting to the line. That's his game, he's aggressive around the hoop and his wide body makes him tough to guard without fouling him. Does Lenny deserve credit for the frequency that Sweetney gets to the line?

TT is not getting to the line because he is not playing aggressively. We have no idea what Lenny is saying to TT because of course we are not on the coaching staff. So how can we say that Lenny is not trying with TT. He is doing what he needs to do. If TT cannot produce he will go with Ariza. That's all a coach can do. You can drag a horse to water but you can't make him get to the foul line. Or something like that. It is up to TT to be more aggressive!!!
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diderotn
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11/10/2004  1:28 PM
to me I judge lenny also by what he say to the media after the game. I can post the extract of what he has said about TT after those two games. He has not once mentioned the fact that TT has not not made a foul attempt. If he is that concern about the kid's shooting touch, that is one other way to improve that shooting touch.
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fishmike
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11/10/2004  1:33 PM
if there is one thing I like about Lenny its he doesnt blab to the media. What's he supposed to say, they lost because TT sucked? Cmon... the media watched the games, they can write what they see.

So long as we are on the coaching subject maybe this is the key to Lenny being a better motivator:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1099995412154490.xml

physical reprisals allegedly used at B.C. Rain as punishment for being late to practice and other actions. A player who violated a team rule would be required to stand in a circle of his teammates, the source said, and his teammates would then strike him.

For everygame TT doesnt go to the line at least 5 times he has to stand in the middle and let each Knicks slap him. Crawford gets to slap twice because he's skinny
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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11/10/2004  1:36 PM
You judge a coach by what he says to the media? What he says to the media has nothing to do with what happens in the huddle and what happens in practice. I used to openly lie to the media after games. We fans like to pretend that we know what is going on with the coach's and the team because it makes us feel better about ourselves. But the truth is, sorry to say it, we have no idea. The things that used to anger me the most were the things I had to keep closest to the vest, normally because the players that ticked me off the most were also the most fragile and I could not criticize them to the media without losing them. I would spend every waking moment trying to figure out ways to fix this player(which took away from the rest of my team)but fans would walk around saying I was to stupid to know that this player was a problem. Give me a break.
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Bippity10
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11/10/2004  1:50 PM
I wonder if that coach ever reported those techniques to the media. As far as we know TT could be currently strapped to a wall being beaten with french bread.
I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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11/10/2004  1:53 PM
freedom bread
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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11/10/2004  1:54 PM
LOL
I just hope that people will like me
The day after........

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