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Boozer or KMART
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MS
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11/8/2004  1:45 PM
I for one thought that Boozer was vastly underated this offseason, and that K-Mart was overated playing with Jason Kidd. Obviously Knicks fans will be upset for years since we blew a shot to rebuild and grab either Boozer, Amare, or Wilcox, but if you had a choice between Keyon, and Carlos, who gets your vote

Boozer may be the best rebounder in the NBA right now. At his size which is closer to 6'8, its hard to argue. The Jazz stole him away, but in the end it will be his loss no matter how much money he makes.

Steph wanted away from KG
Tracy wanted away from Vince
Kobe wanted away from Shaq
Boozer leaves Lebron

Its going to be on the same level in a few years. Its just a same we missed out. Aside from Duncan, and Garnett, and maybe Dirk there isn't another player out there at the PF spot, I wouldn't trade for the kid
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martin
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11/8/2004  2:03 PM
Boozer?

I think I like Boozer better than K-Mart.

And I think he has done himself better as a player by going to Utah. That team just has a great coach and players in a great system. WHen you talk about Boozer, AK47, and their PG, that's a great bunch. Add is a slick SG (dime a dozen) and you have a solid 4 people.
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vdfebduderocks
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11/8/2004  2:03 PM
so in another words, you thought we can rebuild around the PFs. at first, we had McDyess, so we don't need those players. second, they won't get PT. also, boozer is not the best rebounder in the NBA. Sweetney will be a lot better than him in the future, and don't forget KG and Wallace. Booz is 6-9. We didn't miss out on anything.
martin
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11/8/2004  2:21 PM
Posted by vdfebduderocks:

so in another words, you thought we can rebuild around the PFs. at first, we had McDyess, so we don't need those players. second, they won't get PT. also, boozer is not the best rebounder in the NBA. Sweetney will be a lot better than him in the future, and don't forget KG and Wallace. Booz is 6-9. We didn't miss out on anything.

wow, you must have not seen too many of his games.
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TMS
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11/8/2004  2:22 PM
Boozer's averaging 24 & 12 right now...how do you figure Sweetney will ever be BETTER than him? if he can even get up close to that level i'd be ECSTATIC.
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MS
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11/8/2004  2:30 PM
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, you are brining up McDyess.

Who are the best teams in the league, Minny (Kg) Spurs (Duncan) Pacers(JO) Pistons (Wallace) Mavs (Dirk) Not to mention half these guys should be centers, and I think that proves having a dominant PF is the most important position. And with the exception of Dirk everyone of them plays great D

Boozer is just 22, he had 11.3 boards last year, and this year has over 12, and is averaging 24 on 68 percent shooting, the Jazz are blowing people out. Right now he ranks prob 6th, and Ben Wallace is the best rebounder in the league, but as fare as shear will Boozer brings it every night and is not a complainer, and Garnett average 12 boards for the first time at 24, and Ben Wallace took 5 years to average double figures.

Also just an aside (KVH 18pts and 12rbs through two)
teslawlo
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11/8/2004  3:09 PM
I'd take boozer although Kmart is obviously physically more talented. But I'm not going to use the p-word here. Both of them have a strong fire inside of them, but I like boozer better just because he's so consistent with doing the little things, grabbing the boards EVERY NIGHT unlike kenyon and not being an idiot. Boozer knows his role, I liked how one of the commentators pointed out during the Athens disaster how when Boozer and duncan were the frontcourt, boozer moved to the correct spot all the time so it was harder to double duncan. Carlos knows his role and it's better to have a controversial contract agreement issue than to have a mental issue with flagrantly fouling guys half a foot shorter than yourself all the time.
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tkf
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11/8/2004  3:31 PM
As much as I hate kenyon, I don't like boozers lack of loyalty, and I just think that kenyon is the better all around player, if anything Kenyon is a excellent defender, and finisher, I think his weakness is rebounding, but overall I would take him over boozer in a heartbeat..
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Silverfuel
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11/8/2004  3:54 PM
Posted by tkf:

As much as I hate kenyon, I don't like boozers lack of loyalty, and I just think that kenyon is the better all around player, if anything Kenyon is a excellent defender, and finisher, I think his weakness is rebounding, but overall I would take him over boozer in a heartbeat..
There was an ESPN aticle about Boozer that I wish I had a link for. It explained a lot of things, uncluding what he did in Utah. The article states that he had in fact informed the Cav's GM that he would be looking at other offers. It was the GM that fell asleep on it and came out yelling when Booz signed with Utah.
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Kwazimodal
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11/8/2004  4:11 PM
Gordon Gund is one of the most respected owners in the NBA and a class act.We may never know the whole story but Id take his over Boozer's:

Letter from Gordon Gund Regarding Carlos Boozer


July 14th, 2004

To: Cavaliers Fans
From: Gordon Gund

I know last week’s developments with respect to Carlos Boozer are a source of extreme disappointment for you. I want to assure you that I feel exactly the same way. Like you, I believed in Carlos.

Several days have now gone by. This has helped me to gain perspective. I hope this letter will do the same for you.

First, Jim Paxson has taken a tremendous amount of criticism in the media for what happened. As the team owner, I made the decision not to pick up the option on Carlos’ contract. Any criticism should be directed to me, not to Jim Paxson. I want to be very clear that any fault is mine.

Up until late last week when the trust was broken, I believed in Carlos Boozer, the player, and Carlos Boozer, the person. That is why I tried to do what he said he wanted. We tried to do right by him, by the team and by you in trusting in his repeated insistence that if we showed him respect, he would show respect to us.

Carlos and his agent first approached us in December of 2003, stating his desire for financial security as well as his desire to remain in Cleveland and be a key part of the future of this franchise. He and his agent made it very clear that if we respected them, and provided the security he was looking to gain, he would respect us. Given his record on the court, with the franchise, and in the community, we had every reason to believe his commitment.

Over the course of several months, we had multiple meetings that involved Carlos, his wife and his agent. In our most recent meeting on June 30, Jim Paxson and I told Carlos we had two options. He could play this year on his existing contract and test the market for free agency next year, or we could elect not to exercise the option if we had the understanding with him that as soon as legally possible he would negotiate a contract with us for the maximum we could pay him under league rules.

I told him that as we could not have an agreement at that time given the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, we would have to trust one another’s intentions. I said I define trust as his intention to stay in Cleveland and enter into a long term contract with us as soon as possible under the league rules. In that meeting, we were clear with him that he could make more money in the open market a year from now than we could pay him by redoing his contract this year. I told him he needed to understand that and we did not want him to later think we had taken advantage of him. Jim told him, “There are at least seven teams that have cap space right now who will want to pay you more than we can now. We don’t want to lose you. Why would we not pick up the option?” Carlos said “Because we'd like long term security and we want to stay in Cleveland.” Carlos went on to say that he was happy to be a Cavalier and never indicated any concern with his role on the team or his relationship with Coach Silas.

Carlos, his wife and his agent – all of whom were in that room -- knew what our maximum ability would be to pay him. Both Carlos and his wife responded that they wanted financial security now and therefore were anxious to pursue the second option of entering into a long term contract with us as soon as possible and that they would live with any consequences from this decision.

Carlos’ agent then said he wanted to go to another room to talk with his client and his wife alone which they did. When they returned, his agent said he had again explained everything to them so that they understood everything involved and said that their thinking had not changed.

Jim Paxson then told him, “We'd like to begin, as soon as permissible, to negotiate an agreement that we can sign on July 14th.” Carlos responded, “That’s exactly what I want. I want to get this done as quickly as we can.”

Over time Carlos had told Jim and me repeatedly, “If you show respect for me, I will show respect for you.” So, in the June 30 meeting, I reminded him of that and said, “We are all counting on what you said in earlier meetings and again today.” He responded, “That’s right and you can trust me on that.” I asked if we could all trust each other? Carlos, his wife and agent each responded “Yes.” At that point, believing so strongly in Carlos, I said we would not pick up his option. Our intent, as soon as we could do so, was to re-do his contract. The quotes you saw in the media July 1 about his desire to remain here were entirely consistent with what he told us.

In the final analysis, I decided to trust Carlos and show him the respect he asked for. He did not show that trust and respect in return. That’s what happened. I wanted you to hear it directly from me. The decision was mine and I take full responsibility.

We currently have no intention of matching Utah's offer to Carlos. In order to match it, and within the restrictions of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, we would need to make player personnel moves of such a magnitude that it would have significant negative impact on our team moving forward. We are continuing to look at every possible option that will allow us to improve our team and continue to build on the tremendous momentum we have experienced in recent years. More than ever, we are committed to bringing a championship to this city. Thank you for your continued support of the Cleveland Cavaliers.




MS
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11/8/2004  4:11 PM
Sure the move was kind of classless by Boozer. But you have to look it from both angles. Jim Paxson is one of the worst GM's in the league, see Wagner, Diop, Ollie, Newble, and it goes on. He was trying to offer Boozer more money than he would have got this year, but it was still way under his market value.

How good is Kenyon. Not that good, the question is how good is Jason Kidd that everyone flourishes around him. All K-Mart had to do was continue to be athletic and run the floor and he was going to get the ball, he has no jumper isn't a great rebounded, but plays great d. So he is a little overatted
martin
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11/8/2004  4:14 PM
Posted by MS:

How good is Kenyon. Not that good, the question is how good is Jason Kidd that everyone flourishes around him. All K-Mart had to do was continue to be athletic and run the floor and he was going to get the ball, he has no jumper isn't a great rebounded, but plays great d. So he is a little overatted

probably why Thorn didn't give him the max. Could be a smart move long term. Now if he can turn Kidd into Gold, we know he is part genius.

I still he was wrong to break up that team.
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tkf
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11/8/2004  4:30 PM
Boozer was getting market value, he just wasn't going to get overpaid, I hate his azz for such disloyalty, I really never liked him to start with, but his just takes the cake, Gordon Gund is a classy owner and I take his word on the matter, they could of let Boozer play out the year with his current salary, instead they were willing to give him a new deal which meant instead of that year he was slated to make 600k he was going to make around what 8 mil? Boozer is scum, heck even at 5 mil a year, for 6 years that is a heck of a lot of financial security... these basketball players have this sickening sense of entitlement, they are all grossly overpaid, and believe me the NBA will suffer if they do not do something about these bloated salaries... Lets look at this for example, Ray lewis, Mcnab,owens are some of the biggest stars in the NFL, a sport that is probably the most popular right now and they over their contracts will make less than guys like Brian cardinal, carlos Boozer, and lamar odom, who are by no means elite players in a less popular sport.... The NBA better wake up soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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11/8/2004  4:58 PM
Carlos Boozer is a smart dude(or his agent is).# 1 Jerry Sloan Bar none is the "BEST COACH" in the NBA and should have been the olympic head coach not Larry Brown. When ever a player goes to Utah his game improves in Sloan's system. Arroyos,Harpring, Hornachek etc.. why? Because Sloan plays a college style motion offense that most nba players hate defending and fundementally sound players thrive in. So I say you go Carlos Boozer you made the right move if your goalis to win a championship soon.
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martin
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11/8/2004  5:31 PM
Posted by playa2:

When ever a player goes to Utah his game improves in Sloan's system. Arroyos,Harpring, Hornachek etc.. why? Because Sloan plays a college style motion offense that most nba players hate defending and fundementally sound players thrive in.

you forgot to add our other 2 fav players... Anderson, Eisley.
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Panos
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11/8/2004  5:57 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by MS:

How good is Kenyon. Not that good, the question is how good is Jason Kidd that everyone flourishes around him. All K-Mart had to do was continue to be athletic and run the floor and he was going to get the ball, he has no jumper isn't a great rebounded, but plays great d. So he is a little overatted

probably why Thorn didn't give him the max. Could be a smart move long term. Now if he can turn Kidd into Gold, we know he is part genius.

I still he was wrong to break up that team.

I wonder if Kidd could make a man out of TT...?

prob not.
vdfebduderocks
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11/8/2004  8:58 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by martin:
Posted by MS:

How good is Kenyon. Not that good, the question is how good is Jason Kidd that everyone flourishes around him. All K-Mart had to do was continue to be athletic and run the floor and he was going to get the ball, he has no jumper isn't a great rebounded, but plays great d. So he is a little overatted

probably why Thorn didn't give him the max. Could be a smart move long term. Now if he can turn Kidd into Gold, we know he is part genius.

I still he was wrong to break up that team.

I wonder if Kidd could make a man out of TT...?

prob not.
thorn had no choice, Ratner and Jay-z and co. wanted to save $ before going to BK, so they got rid of K-Mart b/c of $
joec32033
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11/9/2004  12:09 AM
For my money, I take Boozer....all I have to say is the Cavs made WAY too much of a spectacle on of this toi be totally guilt free...they came out crying that they were the victim and I really don't buy it....exactly what did it accomplish? Nothing....and alot of dirty laundry to be aired, I don't know if either party is guilt free, this is definately not a black and white situation, though.....honestly, Cleveland made way too much of an effort to kill Boozer's rep. I just see it that they were trying to deflect the attention from their screw up by questioning Boozer's loyalty...It just seems like Cleveland is saying they did everything right.....and they were perfect angels in this....


I take Boozer because he is better defensively and is a better rebounder. He strikes me as more of a warrior, too. I like KMart alot, but he can go over the top sometimes....

You don't have to act like a tough guy to be a tough guy....The toughest guys are the ones that don't go out of their way to show it to you.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 11/09/2004 00:11:16]
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TMS
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11/9/2004  11:07 AM
i would probably take K-Mart myself...i just love the guy's intensity, ability to finish on the break & be an X-factor in games w/his freakish athleticism...& his Defense is awesome too...he's my ideal image of what a Knick PF should play like...he's a bit of a punk, but i actually like that about him.
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djsunyc
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11/9/2004  11:17 AM
the real question is, which one will help you win a championship?

we know what boozer could do b/c he's putting up better #'s than last year on a different team.

we have yet to see kmart play without kidd.

the jury is definitely still out.

more bang for the buck - boozer
more intangibles - kmart

but the winner of this debate relies alot on their surrounding cast.
Boozer or KMART

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