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we're rebuilding? what????? im confused were rebuilding what?
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BRIGGS
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11/7/2004  11:26 AM
rebuilding is what the Jazz and Denver did. It wasnt long and they are better for it long term. We cant say we are trying to go farther in the playoffs, we are trying to be a 3rd seed and in the same breath say we are rebuilding a team. Im sorry but that is double-talk. There are teams who have been competitive while they added young players on the bench--indiana-but when have you have heard the Pacers say they were rebuilding.
I mean Marbury is a 9 YEAR vet who will be 28. hes in his prime NOW--you cant spend 20mm$ a year on Marbury ifyour goal isnt winning BIg now. It doesnt make sense.

how are we supposed to rebuild-continue getting castoffs from other teams?

TT Nazr Moochie et al--there is a reason they are here! they are not very good and very inconsistent/overpaid!

Detoit kind of retooled their team, but they did it with a foundation of Ben Wallace. They didnt overspend on the backcourt and used most of their funds acquiring big men. You need 2-3 good Gs, but that also has to be matched with 2-3 good big men. we over traded last year, that is the case. we would be better off with doleac + Van horn with mutumbo of the bench. Jamal crawford did not warrant anything past 6 year MLE. We didnt have the necesary draft picks to even attempt to get dampier, because we are to busy giving them away instead of acquiring them.
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MaTT4281
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11/7/2004  11:29 AM
Yes, those are some success stories of rebuilding, but it is only fair to also include teams like Atlanta or Chicago, who have been rebuilding for years now.
djsunyc
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11/7/2004  11:30 AM
rebuilding is what the jazz and denver did. but for us to do exactly what they did was to sit and wait until 06/07 - the first year we would be under the cap by letting all contracts expire.

that was the rut layden put us in.

sitting and waiting definitely was an option but let's not compare this to the jazz or denver. they had big contracts that expired when malone and stockton left, and when denver shipped howard and van exel with a 1 year on thiers.

we have NOBODY with a big money deal that was moveable. h20 (forget it), shandon, eisley, spoon, etc. so we could've rebuilt like them but we would've had to wait till 06/07 which is fine if that was the plan.

obviously, that wasn't the plan.
s3231
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11/7/2004  11:36 AM
We are basically retooling. Isiah wants to win now, but he also wants good talent for the future. Isiah recognizes that Stephon is in his prime right now, so he is trying to surround him with the talent needed to win while also getting younger and better for the future.

So far, I think he has done a good job of doing that. We have some nice assets right now in Stephon, Jamal, Sweetney, and Ariza. Hopefully, Tim and Nazr can do something this season to up their trade value which will help us a lot along with their expiring contracts. As we both know, if we are unable to get a good big man with our expiring contracts in the offseason or by next season's trading deadline, then we will be in trouble.

[Edited by - s3231 on 11/07/2004 11:37:22]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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11/7/2004  11:41 AM
"TT Nazr Moochie et al--there is a reason they are here! they are not very good and very inconsistent/overpaid!"


I really don't think that Isiah likes either of them. I think the only reason they are getting minutes this season is to up their trade value. Isiah is very well aware of the fact that they have expiring contracts next season. I will be surprised if TT and Nazr are not gone or replaced in the starting lineup by next season's trading deadline.



[Edited by - s3231 on 11/07/2004 11:42:20]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Bobby
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11/7/2004  1:11 PM
Detoit kind of retooled their team, but they did it with a foundation of Ben Wallace. They didnt overspend on the backcourt and used most of their funds acquiring big men. You need 2-3 good Gs, but that also has to be matched with 2-3 good big men. we over traded last year, that is the case. we would be better off with doleac + Van horn with mutumbo of the bench. Jamal crawford did not warrant anything past 6 year MLE. We didnt have the necesary draft picks to even attempt to get dampier, because we are to busy giving them away instead of acquiring them.

one of detroit's own, joe dumars mastermind the retooling less the rose colored glasses. given the same circumstances, ny may have never let grant hill walk, and ben wallace would have never made it orange and blue. money is not an issue in ny......mediocrity is
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bonn1997
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11/7/2004  3:22 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

Yes, those are some success stories of rebuilding, but it is only fair to also include teams like Atlanta or Chicago, who have been rebuilding for years now.
Rebuilding the Denver or Jazz way fails 80% of the time.

The Knicks have a ton of young talent. There will be many ups and downs throughout the season. Last night was an awful loss, but it doesn't mean the next ten years are terrible for the Knicks. Calm down people. We have more young talent than many teams and better trade assets (greater ability to use expiring contracts) than any team over the next few years.
Kwazimodal
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11/7/2004  3:39 PM
Posted by s3231:

We are basically retooling. Isiah wants to win now, but he also wants good talent for the future. Isiah recognizes that Stephon is in his prime right now, so he is trying to surround him with the talent needed to win while also getting younger and better for the future.

So far, I think he has done a good job of doing that. We have some nice assets right now in Stephon, Jamal, Sweetney, and Ariza. Hopefully, Tim and Nazr can do something this season to up their trade value which will help us a lot along with their expiring contracts. As we both know, if we are unable to get a good big man with our expiring contracts in the offseason or by next season's trading deadline, then we will be in trouble.

[Edited by - s3231 on 11/07/2004 11:37:22]

I agree,a couple of years ago I wouldnt have and would be arguing for rebuilding as well.We have more young talent here than we have had in many years.You are right,Isiah has to improve the frontcourt soon while Marbury is still relatively young.
Knicksfan
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11/7/2004  5:50 PM
And a good way to start is by signing Haislip
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EnySpree
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11/7/2004  5:59 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

And a good way to start is by signing Haislip

Isiah always said the Knicks needed to upgrade the talent.

In my view you have to keep retooling until you get guys in that can play and win.

People talk about Haislip. He might be a blessing for real but Eddie Robinson on the Knicks bench would be just as awesome.

Eddie has proved once in his career that he was a person worth investing a big contract on........His offensive skill is there. His run and jump ability is there too.

Isiah has to get both. Right now Eddie and Haislip would be some of the most athletic players in NY Knick history.

Yeah we are rebuilding......until the Knicks win the championship......tearign the team down would make no sense....I think the way Isiah is doing things is the right way to do it.....

Like I said, I expect him to make a major move sometime before Christmas.

Go Knicks.
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EnySpree
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11/7/2004  6:03 PM
I think things would be different if he stayed with KVH and Doleac.....KVH has proved he will produce no matter where he is. Doleac seems to have found his game.

Timmy and Nazr as of this instance suck like a blow pop.
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MaTT4281
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11/7/2004  6:06 PM
KVH has proved he will produce no matter where he is.

...except the fourth quarter.
s3231
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11/7/2004  6:11 PM
I still like the Tim/Nazr trade. KVH just never does anything in the postseason. Tim played well for us last season despite what anyone says. As for Doleac and Nazr, Nazr has more trade value and by the end of this season he should have even more if he has a decent year.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Rich
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11/7/2004  6:12 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I think things would be different if he stayed with KVH and Doleac.....KVH has proved he will produce no matter where he is. Doleac seems to have found his game.

Timmy and Nazr as of this instance suck like a blow pop.

Except KVH couldn't have guarded Paul Pierce either, OTOH, he would have had to guard KVH.
Marv
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11/7/2004  6:19 PM
KVH is fools gold. It's very possible that TT is too. There's cosmic justice in the fact that they've been traded for each other twice (so far).

IMO that trade had, has and will always have absolutely nothing to do with what eventual success this franchise will attain.
s3231
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11/7/2004  6:28 PM
Posted by Marv:

KVH is fools gold. It's very possible that TT is too. There's cosmic justice in the fact that they've been traded for each other twice (so far).

IMO that trade had, has and will always have absolutely nothing to do with what eventual success this franchise will attain.






I'm gonna go out on a limb and make a prediction right now. Nazr Mohammed and/or Tim Thomas will land us a good big man. I know that no one can see it right now, but the Tim/Nazr trade will end up being very important. Nazr simply has more trade value than Doleac and I really do think that he will have a decent season and will up his trade value even more by the offseason.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
tkf
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11/7/2004  7:11 PM
Briggs it is funny that you used denver as a success story for rebuilding and they just got creamed last night by 29 points, I mean isn't that the only reason we are having these doomsday threads? because we got blown out..

Another thing, denver is rebuilding the same way the knicks are, they had a bust in skitizvili, they went and signed kenyon to a HUGE deal, to play a position their other young draftee plays (nene)..
They signed Miller to a huged deal as well as camby, outside of melo, they have not really built through the draft.. just look at that team.... The same can be said with the jazz also..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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11/7/2004  8:20 PM
Posted by tkf:

Briggs it is funny that you used denver as a success story for rebuilding and they just got creamed last night by 29 points
Consistency is not exactly one of Briggs' strengths
Nalod
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11/8/2004  12:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by tkf:
Consistency is not exactly one of Briggs' strengths

That is a very snit-like comment to make.

You snit like an old lady whose Azz hurts.

Just rocking back and forth and yelling at the grandkids cuz they just laughing. More she say, uglier she gets. Starts smelling up the place after a while every time she open her mouth. Flies picking on her teeth, couch all damp where she sits, just nasty bitter snits.

Grandma bonnie's azz don't have to hurt, she just like it that way.

[Edited by - nalod on 11/08/2004 13:03:03]
Bonn1997
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11/8/2004  6:49 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by tkf:
Consistency is not exactly one of Briggs' strengths

That is a very snit-like comment to make.

You snit like an old lady whose Azz hurts.

Just rocking back and forth and yelling at the grandkids cuz they just laughing. More she say, uglier she gets. Starts smelling up the place after a while every time she open her mouth. Flies picking on her teeth, couch all damp where she sits, just nasty bitter snits.

Grandma bonnie's azz don't have to hurt, she just like it that way.

[Edited by - nalod on 11/08/2004 13:03:03]
I just call it like I see it, kid
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we're rebuilding? what????? im confused were rebuilding what?
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