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Did anyone see Ratliff on Sportscenter
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SKY
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11/8/2004  1:18 AM
Think about it this way; Do you think this currnet team can beat the team in the early & mid 90s that featured Ewing, Oakley, Starks, etc?
If the answer is yes, then we have a shot at beating the best teams in the west. If your answer is "What're you kidding me? No way!" then this team is mediocre at best.

And frankly, I don't see the Knicks getting a proven big man this yr or next year thru trades, unless we include our young talents in the deal, and take on further bad contracts & players (which kills future flexibility again).

It's the vicious cycle going round and round and round....
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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11/8/2004  9:05 AM
Sky,

YOu have a valid point. And in truth, there is no right or wrong. Chicago blew it up and I think they did too much at one time.

Nuggs and Caves were losers for 8-9 years before ownership was able to get it together.

If you even read the posts around here, there is little tolerence for bad teams, and you would have to suck it up for a few years to dig out of the hole. And I believe Laydog was trying to do that. Unfortunatly, for what ever reason, he started late and had to clean up his own mess. I think he could have done it, but like most of Corp. America, you have to bring in new people to execute it becasue there is too much garbage attached to the problem.

THere is a part of me that the Isiahization of the team is a new form of Starphuching, but with more substance.

The key is remaining competitive while rebuilding. We need to let expiring deals expire, and keep our picks. If we keep taking on more bloated players-contracts, we will never be true contenders.

The inclusion of Azira-Sweets gives me hope for the future. The fact we are playing them is different. This team is much younger than in past years. THe rest you know.

This team is not championship caliber and I don't think we should be looking to improve the roster if it means mortgaging the future. We gave up 2 draft picks and Lampe. That may hurt one day, but int he garden, "one day" does not pay the bills.

The propaganda machine that touts TT and Penny, as well as the resurgent Nazr is fools information and should just be read as entertainment. Isiah needs to sell tix and he will talk this team up big time.

The reality, we are a 45-50 win team at the very stretch of the imagination. 45 is only 3 games over .500.

Before we make ten trades, which is the typical fans reation, we must understand if the team can really do better? Can we just play the rookies and just let them grow? Do we overvalue our young as fans? and can the coaches do a better job? And should Isiah be trying to make Shandon a better player than playing this personality conflict thing? Shandon is a good defender, is the team being shortsighted?

There is no "best" way to reconstruct the team.

DefAndReb
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11/8/2004  9:09 AM
And we all know who decides the way the money is spent: Dolan.

I've said it year after year on this board. Until Cablevision sells to an owner with basketball business savvy and professional sports common sense, this will continue.

The problem here, you see, is despite both Cablevision teams being overpaid and weak, Dolan still pulls down a lot of money from ticket sales, advertising and merchandise. Why does Donald Sterling continue to own the Clippers, whom he won't pay a whole lot and lose year after year? Because they make him money. He doesn't pay them anything, and he makes enough in tickets and concessions to turn a profit, and sharing the arena with the Lakers is brilliant; they pick up half the tab on the real estate!

Dolan got my money this time. I went in on some season tickets with some guys, hoping that at least this team would try harder to win, make it more exciting. I should have stuck to my guns, and now I get the punishment due, having to endure a whole season of inconsistent play from overpaid streetballers.

Briggs has always been a proponent of the wholesale rebuild. I think the risk for long-term failure there is too great, as is evidenced in Chicago. However, the patch up and pay high method employed by Layden, under Dolan's guidance, put the org in a position that cannot be remedied without a good gutting. Isiah thinks he can make the team a winner through creative trades. It's possible, but so far all he's managed to do is up the payroll and up the hype. We've yet to see results. Granted, this season just got started, but if the true measure of a good team is consistency, this team is as poor as the any Knicks team dating back to 1996-1997, when they should have made major personnel moves. Instead, ownership settled for a second-round playoff team, because second round teams still make crazy playoff ticket money. That's good enough for Dolan, apparently. The Knicks have not had a good-enough-to-win-it-all team since the 1994-1995 season. Ten years.

I'd give them 40 games. If they're not close to, or over, .500 by game 41, gut it like a fish, make starters play third string, bring in guys off the street to play, replace Lenny with a high school coach, anything. No way you pay guys this much money and not get results. If you don't punish them, this will only continue. Where's Trump when you need him? "Stephon ... you're fired. Too many mistakes."



Bizzy211
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11/8/2004  9:18 AM
If I didn't know any better I would be thinking the season is almost over and we just missed the playoffs. Man some of you guys are panicking. The Basketball season has just begun fellas.
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
TMS
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11/8/2004  2:15 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way thanks layden, you bypassed amare wilcox and boozer all in one draft. think about any of those guys on our team now. THEN we would be considered an elite team.

wrong about Wilcox...he was taken by the Clippers at #6 before we ever had a chance to pick him that year...Amare was a major oversight obviously, as was Boozer...imagine if Layden had asked DEN to draft Boozer instead of Frank Williams? the guy's averaging 24 & 12 so far this year...ya think we might have been able to use that type of production in our frontcourt?


No, i know this by heart. wilcox was picked after us with 8 then amare was picked by pheonix and boozer was 1 pick before we selected milos at 36

basically we couldve fd up on pick 7 and still came away shining at pick 27 but it never happens for us. when we pick big its fred weiss or eric cehnisowrth






Briggs is right, I also remember Wilcox being picked by the Clippers right after we picked Nene for Denver. I believe Dajuan Wagner was picked before us by Cleveland.

i stand corrected...it was Dajuan that was taken #6...sorry about that.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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11/8/2004  3:32 PM
Defandrob,

We made finals in 1999!

but I hear you. POint well taken!
BRIGGS
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11/8/2004  5:30 PM
Posted by DefAndReb:

And we all know who decides the way the money is spent: Dolan.

I've said it year after year on this board. Until Cablevision sells to an owner with basketball business savvy and professional sports common sense, this will continue.

The problem here, you see, is despite both Cablevision teams being overpaid and weak, Dolan still pulls down a lot of money from ticket sales, advertising and merchandise. Why does Donald Sterling continue to own the Clippers, whom he won't pay a whole lot and lose year after year? Because they make him money. He doesn't pay them anything, and he makes enough in tickets and concessions to turn a profit, and sharing the arena with the Lakers is brilliant; they pick up half the tab on the real estate!

Dolan got my money this time. I went in on some season tickets with some guys, hoping that at least this team would try harder to win, make it more exciting. I should have stuck to my guns, and now I get the punishment due, having to endure a whole season of inconsistent play from overpaid streetballers.

Briggs has always been a proponent of the wholesale rebuild. I think the risk for long-term failure there is too great, as is evidenced in Chicago. However, the patch up and pay high method employed by Layden, under Dolan's guidance, put the org in a position that cannot be remedied without a good gutting. Isiah thinks he can make the team a winner through creative trades. It's possible, but so far all he's managed to do is up the payroll and up the hype. We've yet to see results. Granted, this season just got started, but if the true measure of a good team is consistency, this team is as poor as the any Knicks team dating back to 1996-1997, when they should have made major personnel moves. Instead, ownership settled for a second-round playoff team, because second round teams still make crazy playoff ticket money. That's good enough for Dolan, apparently. The Knicks have not had a good-enough-to-win-it-all team since the 1994-1995 season. Ten years.

I'd give them 40 games. If they're not close to, or over, .500 by game 41, gut it like a fish, make starters play third string, bring in guys off the street to play, replace Lenny with a high school coach, anything. No way you pay guys this much money and not get results. If you don't punish them, this will only continue. Where's Trump when you need him? "Stephon ... you're fired. Too many mistakes."



I don't know about a complete rebuild, but I sure wanted to take that pick in 2002. I don't want to fault some of the premise here, I understand what isiah is doing to a degree. He wants the team to be built like the Nets were--a team that can get up+ down the floor.

Now what i don't like about what isiah [says] is the following

A. we are rebuilding--no , no we are not rebuilding thats a cheapskate excuse if this fails. You were able to spend over 200mm$ on salaries--more than most GM move in 5 years. You dont bring in stephon Marbury @ 20mm per to rebuild.

B. In terms of personnel, he's has blantantly gone after soft type players. he says NY is a guards town, no Isiah thats not true, its a big mans town. you are saying its a guards town because you went out and spent 200mm on them.

c-we are stuck with what we have for the most part, no ending contracts and the only way we get something done is trade undesirable for undesirable..



IF we stink, I think they should highly consider moving KT to a contending team for a reasonable contract and a pick


in the offseason draft 2 big men and do what you have to do to work a deal for a player like Swift Dalembart Kwame brown etc.. and use your mLE wisley perhaps partially on a curtis bochardt etc..

bring in something that looks like

for example

C/F Stromie Swift 6-9 240 acquire via sign + trade
C Curtis Bochardt 7-0 260 acquire via MLE 4 years 16mm
C/PF Channing Fre 6-11 250 acquire via pick
C Kosta Peovic 7-2 245 acquire via pick

for example



RIP Crushalot😞
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/8/2004  7:50 PM
...for all the little thirsties...





Take a sip of the orange & blue and CHILL...



The season JUST started!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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11/8/2004  8:45 PM
Great Bluedini! IT changes color, Just like........

Never mind.

Great stuff "core.

At least with Isiah we'll lose in style!

Even ESPN radion tonite was taling about he "surprise teams, and disapointments!" 79-80 games left! What a joke. Team goes 2-1 that sucks and its a surprise?

KVH has a good game and we post his aveg already?
Kwazimodal
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11/8/2004  8:54 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

...for all the little thirsties...





Take a sip of the orange & blue and CHILL...



The season JUST started!

LOL
Kwazimodal
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11/8/2004  9:06 PM












teslawlo
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11/8/2004  9:15 PM
ahh... kool-aid
let's get the GM for every single team fired and everyone on the forum can own a team! Then we can see if BRIGGS dominates every year
http://allknicks.com
Did anyone see Ratliff on Sportscenter

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