Rookie wrote:

TheGame wrote:Randle has looked a bit off. He is still adjusting to not being the sole focal point of the offense, but if this team is going to grow then he has to get better at picking his spots and Evan and Kemba have to get better at setting up Randle. Last night was just a matter of us being off and the Raptors bringing some top notch defense. We have not played a team with that level of defense all year, so I don’t think the Knicks were ready for it. Plus, down the stretch, the Knicks were missing a lot of finishes at the rim that they normally make.

That’s the rub, Randle takes the ball out of Kemba and Fournier’s hands and doesn’t let them play make enough. The offense is stagnant and predictable. On makes, Walker takes the ball up (most of the time) and Randle walks up the court and stands at the top of the arc demanding the ball causing those awkward hand offs because the defense knows what’s coming. On misses, Randle brings the ball up and Walker and Fournier run to their spots. Randle doesn’t move without the ball or set screens. He walks and jogs up the court and is always the last man there (by design?). On D, he doesn’t get out to guard cheating towards the basket for rebounds leaving his man wide open if the ball swings to the man he is supposed to be guarding. The chemistry with Kemba is bad and Randle’s body language with Fournier is terrible (possibly why Thibs tried Quickly in his place down the stretch). When they swing the ball away from Randle he looks like he loses interest. Also Randle’s conditioning looks suspect, he is sucking wind after four minutes.

I am not liking this Randle. I rewatched the the game and focused on Randle. I really wanted to break the TV and won’t be doing that again. Really not fun to watch

+1

TPercy wrote:Yeah the amount of ppl piling on Randle are so weird to me.

For me Randle is a separate issue that doesn't have to do much with Mitch as I also think he is trying to adjust to not being the offensive focus. When you handle the ball most of the entire game there is a different feel vs when you have to pick your spots... he doesn't seem to move well without the ball but I believe he will improve as the season goes on. This is ideally what we should want as Knick fans with Randle - he is needed but not so much that we are easy to guard. I do wish he would penetrate more instead of those deep 3s and long 2 fadeaways.

Glad to see RJ is being more assertive and will hopefully continue his progress as best case he becomes more of our focal point to there are two primary guys the opposition needs to focus on at the end of games.

If I had one hindsight wish from last offseason - it would have been to resign Bullock as we still could have also signed Fournier. We would have another wing option at the end of close games where better defense is needed.

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

TheGame wrote:Randle has looked a bit off. He is still adjusting to not being the sole focal point of the offense, but if this team is going to grow then he has to get better at picking his spots and Evan and Kemba have to get better at setting up Randle. Last night was just a matter of us being off and the Raptors bringing some top notch defense. We have not played a team with that level of defense all year, so I don’t think the Knicks were ready for it. Plus, down the stretch, the Knicks were missing a lot of finishes at the rim that they normally make.

That’s the rub, Randle takes the ball out of Kemba and Fournier’s hands and doesn’t let them play make enough. The offense is stagnant and predictable. On makes, Walker takes the ball up (most of the time) and Randle walks up the court and stands at the top of the arc demanding the ball causing those awkward hand offs because the defense knows what’s coming. On misses, Randle brings the ball up and Walker and Fournier run to their spots. Randle doesn’t move without the ball or set screens. He walks and jogs up the court and is always the last man there (by design?). On D, he doesn’t get out to guard cheating towards the basket for rebounds leaving his man wide open if the ball swings to the man he is supposed to be guarding. The chemistry with Kemba is bad and Randle’s body language with Fournier is terrible (possibly why Thibs tried Quickly in his place down the stretch). When they swing the ball away from Randle he looks like he loses interest. Also Randle’s conditioning looks suspect, he is sucking wind after four minutes.

I am not liking this Randle. I rewatched the the game and focused on Randle. I really wanted to break the TV and won’t be doing that again. Really not fun to watch

except its not. Randle leads the team in assists (by a lot) and his #1 target has been Fournier. They showed the stat during the Toronto pregame.

I dont disagree with some of the knocks on Randle handling more than those guys. I think the goal to reduce Randle's handling should be to get him the ball in easier positions to score where he doesnt have to put the ball on the floor so much. Randle's a monster but the scouting report is good... you can bother him with smaller quicker guys because he's on a perimeter too much.

I'm down with taking the ball out of his hands on the wing (a little) and finding more post ups where we can get him the ball in the paint with a guy like Lonzo on him and just let Jules eat him up. If teams are gonna stick wings on Jules we gotta make them pay for that

I think there's a lot of adjustments and upside to this group as they get chemistry together on offense, but lets not lose sight here guys. The offense:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022.html
Knicks are 3rd in PPG
Knicks are 4th in PP/100
Knicks are 2nd in EFG%

So... a little perspective as the Knicks are currently an elite offensive team. Its actually the defense that's a much bigger concern. I think we have a TON of offensive firepower. They are only gonna get better, but they need to get better at getting stops and letting teams back into games and just playing chippy defense.

A lot of good points there and I can’t disagree. I hope Randle is willing to make changes to his ball dominant style and give the effort on D. I wouldn’t want to be him in yesterday’s film session. He does seem like a guy who will take accountability and based on last year, make positive changes. Randle definitely looks more comfortable playing with Rose and Quickly. I’m setting 15/20 games in as a check point.

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

TheGame wrote:Randle has looked a bit off. He is still adjusting to not being the sole focal point of the offense, but if this team is going to grow then he has to get better at picking his spots and Evan and Kemba have to get better at setting up Randle. Last night was just a matter of us being off and the Raptors bringing some top notch defense. We have not played a team with that level of defense all year, so I don’t think the Knicks were ready for it. Plus, down the stretch, the Knicks were missing a lot of finishes at the rim that they normally make.

That’s the rub, Randle takes the ball out of Kemba and Fournier’s hands and doesn’t let them play make enough. The offense is stagnant and predictable. On makes, Walker takes the ball up (most of the time) and Randle walks up the court and stands at the top of the arc demanding the ball causing those awkward hand offs because the defense knows what’s coming. On misses, Randle brings the ball up and Walker and Fournier run to their spots. Randle doesn’t move without the ball or set screens. He walks and jogs up the court and is always the last man there (by design?). On D, he doesn’t get out to guard cheating towards the basket for rebounds leaving his man wide open if the ball swings to the man he is supposed to be guarding. The chemistry with Kemba is bad and Randle’s body language with Fournier is terrible (possibly why Thibs tried Quickly in his place down the stretch). When they swing the ball away from Randle he looks like he loses interest. Also Randle’s conditioning looks suspect, he is sucking wind after four minutes.

I am not liking this Randle. I rewatched the the game and focused on Randle. I really wanted to break the TV and won’t be doing that again. Really not fun to watch

except its not. Randle leads the team in assists (by a lot) and his #1 target has been Fournier. They showed the stat during the Toronto pregame.

I dont disagree with some of the knocks on Randle handling more than those guys. I think the goal to reduce Randle's handling should be to get him the ball in easier positions to score where he doesnt have to put the ball on the floor so much. Randle's a monster but the scouting report is good... you can bother him with smaller quicker guys because he's on a perimeter too much.

I'm down with taking the ball out of his hands on the wing (a little) and finding more post ups where we can get him the ball in the paint with a guy like Lonzo on him and just let Jules eat him up. If teams are gonna stick wings on Jules we gotta make them pay for that

I think there's a lot of adjustments and upside to this group as they get chemistry together on offense, but lets not lose sight here guys. The offense:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022.html
Knicks are 3rd in PPG
Knicks are 4th in PP/100
Knicks are 2nd in EFG%

So... a little perspective as the Knicks are currently an elite offensive team. Its actually the defense that's a much bigger concern. I think we have a TON of offensive firepower. They are only gonna get better, but they need to get better at getting stops and letting teams back into games and just playing chippy defense.

You both made a lot of great points. Both were nice reads. Let me add this:

Julius is ether going to come around or eventually be moved and we let Obi take over. I REALLY DOUBT it is number two. But who knows.
I'm just stating this extreme perspective (with moving him) as the last straw, which again, I don't think it gets there.

Julius' problem stems from him really idolized Kobi. And you can see it in his sometimes selfish play (but also in his work ethic. And for Klarity, Kobe WAS the Mamba.) They have a FULL team around Julius now. If his play does start to hurt the team, how long will it last before there is pushback from the team? I don't think that takes all that long, but it depends on where Julius goes from here. Look at Markus Smart speaking out against Tatum and Brown(?) in Boston. That is a whole lot of weight on players imo. If we the fans see it, well, you know. I think this gets fixed before it reaches a team wide or fan recognized problem. We are talking about playing in N.Y. The fans don't hold back.

Nobody is trying to be Mamba out there, except sometimes Julius. I don't want to be hard on the guy. As you said he really does rack up assists (and he is turning into an excellent player), but watching him play, I also see the stupid plays, the selfishness, etc. But he is probably our best player. (Though I wouldn't be shocked to see RJ pass him in the next year or two - depending on Julius. RJ is getting better quick.) And I really am amazed by what Obi has become. Star in the making. Mitch is something special, a game changer. Kemba is Kemba and I have faith in defense entering when need be in McBride and Grimes. Damn we are in a GREAT position. So early in the season. If Thibs gets this machine oiled up, I have been saying 50-58 wins, I'll be safe and say 55. We are just so deep, so talented, so well coached and our younger guys are getting good quick.

Can it get any better?

50-58 is a bit range.
Can it get any better? This is a trap fans fall for. You count the hatched chickens, but if it can sure as shyt get worse and be under 50 games. 50 games is still better than last year!

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Yeah the amount of ppl piling on Randle are so weird to me.

weird is a great word for it. Knicks are winning games, have an elite offense and Jules us 21/10/6 while adjusting to a new backcourt (and baby). Lets enjoy these humans taking their imperfect journeys through life and celebrate the growth. If this is what Jules looks like when he struggles we are in pretty good shape! Looking forward to what happens when he gets hot

Rookie wrote:

TheGame wrote:Randle has looked a bit off. He is still adjusting to not being the sole focal point of the offense, but if this team is going to grow then he has to get better at picking his spots and Evan and Kemba have to get better at setting up Randle. Last night was just a matter of us being off and the Raptors bringing some top notch defense. We have not played a team with that level of defense all year, so I don’t think the Knicks were ready for it. Plus, down the stretch, the Knicks were missing a lot of finishes at the rim that they normally make.

Also Randle’s conditioning looks suspect, he is sucking wind after four minutes.

I am not liking this Randle. I rewatched the the game and focused on Randle. I really wanted to break the TV and won’t be doing that again. Really not fun to watch

I was wondering the other day if "plane to the gym" is now a thing of the past...