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Rokas Jokubaitis alert
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technomaster
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9/6/2023  7:37 PM
Jokubaitis can't see the Knicks being a good situation for him - As a starter and one of the top players in Europe, it would take a role where he can walk in big minutes to be enticing for him.

We're chock full of competition at the guard spots for minutes. Brunson is the biggest rock, but they also have Quickley, Grimes, DDV. That's before mentioning McBride, Fournier, and swingman types like Hart and RJ.

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NYKalltheway
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9/8/2023  12:32 PM
He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.
Nalod
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9/8/2023  1:03 PM
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

Knixkik
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9/8/2023  1:57 PM
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

Did this FIBA run do anything for his stock? My understanding is he took a step back this season. Didn’t have the elite efficiency of the season before and obviously couldn’t repeat that award of the best young player in euro league.

NYKalltheway
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9/9/2023  7:17 AM
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

martin
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9/9/2023  10:20 AM
NYKalltheway wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

Nice, thanks

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Nalod
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9/9/2023  11:01 AM
NYKalltheway wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

You bring up good points.
can you expand on being "a semi professional in the industry"? You a former player at a high level? A coach? Scout?
Does being Greek make you more aware? This a genetic gift? A cultural advantage?

EwingsGlass
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9/9/2023  1:21 PM
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

You bring up good points.
can you expand on being "a semi professional in the industry"? You a former player at a high level? A coach? Scout?
Does being Greek make you more aware? This a genetic gift? A cultural advantage?

Nalod wants to see two forms of ID and a DNA test before he is willing to give validity to your opinion.

This is the Randle.
Nalod
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9/9/2023  1:28 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

You bring up good points.
can you expand on being "a semi professional in the industry"? You a former player at a high level? A coach? Scout?
Does being Greek make you more aware? This a genetic gift? A cultural advantage?

Nalod wants to see two forms of ID and a DNA test before he is willing to give validity to your opinion.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

This is a great sentence actually. "Semi Professional". What industry?
But "Being from Greece myself".....Thats just plain awesome!
Sometimes we mean one thing and type something else. All Fun......

EwingsGlass
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9/9/2023  2:01 PM
Nalod wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:He's probably going to have his breakout year this season. I'd wait till next summer to get a much more polished and confident player.

He is already a top PG in Euroleague. They play a selfless type of game that really does not "Breakout". The question is how his games translates to the NBA.
Also are other teams wanting to give him a chance and trade for him.
Knicks have assets and are playing the long game.

He'll want guarantees and be paid to come. he'll want a true opportunity to play.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

The talent was always there but he didn't play as one of the best PGs last season, even if he has that potential. This season I think he can be one of the top 2-3 guards over here.

P.S: We don't really have "Point Guards" over here, you typically field two playmaking guards for the longer stretch of the game. The ones that get called 'point guards' are those who cannot shoot, such as Rubio or Calathes.

You bring up good points.
can you expand on being "a semi professional in the industry"? You a former player at a high level? A coach? Scout?
Does being Greek make you more aware? This a genetic gift? A cultural advantage?

Nalod wants to see two forms of ID and a DNA test before he is willing to give validity to your opinion.

I am very well aware, being from Greece myself and a semi-professional in the industry.

This is a great sentence actually. "Semi Professional". What industry?
But "Being from Greece myself".....Thats just plain awesome!
Sometimes we mean one thing and type something else. All Fun......

Not sure you actually need credentials to post here. Mine are not legit other than a love of basketball and numbers.

I took the Greece comment to mean he watches Euroleague. I took the semi-pro to mean that he is involved in basketball.

Taken at his best, someone who loves basketball and watches Rocky play thinks he could use another year.

You can just weight the information as you see fit. The comments sound intelligent, so I am giving them good consideration. Yours follow the stream of conscious approach to posts, which tend to have good points but lack cogency. Your position is that he is gonna want a check to come here. I think you can both be right.

I don’t really know anything about Euroleague. Guys I thought would crush it here are meh. Guys who are meh here crush it in Euroleague. Then there are a few that are just the best of the best here. Top 3 players in the NBA right now are Euros (Giannis, Jokic, Doncic).

This is the Randle.
NYKalltheway
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9/10/2023  10:22 AM
Yeah, so being from Greece means that I'm automatically exposed to the European side of basketball.
By semi-professional I mean that I'm involved with running a basketball club at a decent enough level(but that's light years away from Euroleague level) in the 1st tier of the domestic competitions and I was kind of running the team, sometimes involved with squad building as well and I am bombarded on a daily basis by basketball agents looking to move their scrubs to our scrubs league and get transfer updates :D

But all this is unpaid, since there's no real money at most levels of this sports. If anything, it even costs money to participate here, as there isn't any important source of revenue. The only people that get paid are players, coaches and the medical teams and that's not even always the case for everyone out there. Professionalism in European basketball is for the less than 1% privileged teams. Same applies with volleyball, handball, water polo, rugby and several other sports we have over here with not enough support. Depends where you are really. I'm not based in Greece mainland so that's an issue. There are 2 clubs in Greece that are at the top of the professional side.

As for how the Euroleague/European game translated to the NBA. It typically doesn't. We're talking about two alien sports to each other. NBA is all about the individual managing to create his own shot or nowadays a version of the 2000s Euro-style where it is to get the first open shot triggered, although in Europe it was mostly to get the first highly probable shot. So you'll see 1 or 2 players pass up a chance to throw an unmarked three pointer if there's a better option somewhere. So European basketball is more efficiently structured, but obviously the talent isn't as great as what you have in the NBA. The NBA players aren't willing to be tamed by coaching, whereas in Europe I've seen American former college players that were even drafted by NBA teams cry at practice sessions because they were yelled at by coaches for just messing up a step or a dribble. It's pretty common to see coaches yell at everyone for little to no reason and no one thinks much of it. Typically players adapt to all that and follow what the coach says and the yelling is minimized :D Not all coaches yell of course, but more do than do not. In the NBA, it's unlikely to see any coach yell at an NBA player, let alone a superstar. He'd pack his bags the next day.

European players are adaptable to various coaching styles, as long as there is one. They grew up playing from 5-11 years old for different coaches and then entered youth competitive basketball (typically 15+ years old) under different coaches every 2 seasons until they're moving to the first team at the highest level. That's like 6 coaches on average before they even step foot on a men's competitive level. You don't teach talent, you can't teach shooting, so entire focus is on fundamentals, playing style and adapting to your teammates.

So even if you have a player that's always been the best at every level, this is how he's mentally prepped. You know the American side better than myself, so you can feel the contrast just by reading this.
We still have high school competitions but nobody actually cares about those.

The best indicator for US players adapting to European basketball is how they fared at NCAA level. Since most kinda skip it, it's hard to see them adjust properly. The cultural gap is huge and not everyone is mentally strong to adapt, or have such willingness. A decent American NBA player may prefer to be a scrub in the NBA than a good player on a great European team, which is an option they have. Not that many achieve it, and it's because of them, not because Europe is bad or better or anything.

Europeans on the other hand typically cannot do things that you see from American superstars. They can shoot lights out and bully you on fundamentals by tricky (legal) steps. And the NBA allows an extra step + that gather nonsense so it's pretty much like rugby for guys like Adetokubo.

The other thing is that the NBA is focused on a short rotation where the starting lineup is important. Basketball is a sport where you can make changes anytime you want, so that's not really important for European teams. You can see 9-11 man rotations, probably not so much nowadays as 10 years ago - due to less money being in the game. Players won't complain about not starting. Players won't complain about their playing time unless it's close to zero and granted that there are at least 4 other players that don't see enough of the court. So out of 40 minutes in a game, you won't care much if you're averaging 23 minutes a night. But you'll be called at times to play 35/40 minutes.
Who's closing the games matters most, but again, you can see coaches change their lineup 3-5 times in the last 2 minutes, depending on how close the game is and I'm not even considering foul trouble.

Also, analytics are used differently, although they're also using the core stuff that NBA like Kinexon or Synergy. If you want to see who's an important player for a team, you'll check how many minutes he has when the score is tight or during clutch time in 4th quarter (last 2-3 minutes, depending on score difference) and you always have to adjust for foul trouble. Since players are playing similar amounts of minutes with their "backups", you check how many of those minutes were at a more important stage and you also check if the other players used in that position were in foul trouble (2 fouls in 1st quarter, 3 fouls by early 3rd quarter or 4 fouls in the late stages of the game are typically used).
You're not going to see coaches base their entire system on analytics.


Now off to the 4th quarter of the final. Let's hope for a fighting spirit from Serbia to take this to OT, I'd like to see more of this :D

Nalod
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9/10/2023  1:51 PM
NYKalltheway wrote:Yeah, so being from Greece means that I'm automatically exposed to the European side of basketball.
By semi-professional I mean that I'm involved with running a basketball club at a decent enough level(but that's light years away from Euroleague level) in the 1st tier of the domestic competitions and I was kind of running the team, sometimes involved with squad building as well and I am bombarded on a daily basis by basketball agents looking to move their scrubs to our scrubs league and get transfer updates :D

But all this is unpaid, since there's no real money at most levels of this sports. If anything, it even costs money to participate here, as there isn't any important source of revenue. The only people that get paid are players, coaches and the medical teams and that's not even always the case for everyone out there. Professionalism in European basketball is for the less than 1% privileged teams. Same applies with volleyball, handball, water polo, rugby and several other sports we have over here with not enough support. Depends where you are really. I'm not based in Greece mainland so that's an issue. There are 2 clubs in Greece that are at the top of the professional side.

As for how the Euroleague/European game translated to the NBA. It typically doesn't. We're talking about two alien sports to each other. NBA is all about the individual managing to create his own shot or nowadays a version of the 2000s Euro-style where it is to get the first open shot triggered, although in Europe it was mostly to get the first highly probable shot. So you'll see 1 or 2 players pass up a chance to throw an unmarked three pointer if there's a better option somewhere. So European basketball is more efficiently structured, but obviously the talent isn't as great as what you have in the NBA. The NBA players aren't willing to be tamed by coaching, whereas in Europe I've seen American former college players that were even drafted by NBA teams cry at practice sessions because they were yelled at by coaches for just messing up a step or a dribble. It's pretty common to see coaches yell at everyone for little to no reason and no one thinks much of it. Typically players adapt to all that and follow what the coach says and the yelling is minimized :D Not all coaches yell of course, but more do than do not. In the NBA, it's unlikely to see any coach yell at an NBA player, let alone a superstar. He'd pack his bags the next day.

European players are adaptable to various coaching styles, as long as there is one. They grew up playing from 5-11 years old for different coaches and then entered youth competitive basketball (typically 15+ years old) under different coaches every 2 seasons until they're moving to the first team at the highest level. That's like 6 coaches on average before they even step foot on a men's competitive level. You don't teach talent, you can't teach shooting, so entire focus is on fundamentals, playing style and adapting to your teammates.

So even if you have a player that's always been the best at every level, this is how he's mentally prepped. You know the American side better than myself, so you can feel the contrast just by reading this.
We still have high school competitions but nobody actually cares about those.

The best indicator for US players adapting to European basketball is how they fared at NCAA level. Since most kinda skip it, it's hard to see them adjust properly. The cultural gap is huge and not everyone is mentally strong to adapt, or have such willingness. A decent American NBA player may prefer to be a scrub in the NBA than a good player on a great European team, which is an option they have. Not that many achieve it, and it's because of them, not because Europe is bad or better or anything.

Europeans on the other hand typically cannot do things that you see from American superstars. They can shoot lights out and bully you on fundamentals by tricky (legal) steps. And the NBA allows an extra step + that gather nonsense so it's pretty much like rugby for guys like Adetokubo.

The other thing is that the NBA is focused on a short rotation where the starting lineup is important. Basketball is a sport where you can make changes anytime you want, so that's not really important for European teams. You can see 9-11 man rotations, probably not so much nowadays as 10 years ago - due to less money being in the game. Players won't complain about not starting. Players won't complain about their playing time unless it's close to zero and granted that there are at least 4 other players that don't see enough of the court. So out of 40 minutes in a game, you won't care much if you're averaging 23 minutes a night. But you'll be called at times to play 35/40 minutes.
Who's closing the games matters most, but again, you can see coaches change their lineup 3-5 times in the last 2 minutes, depending on how close the game is and I'm not even considering foul trouble.

Also, analytics are used differently, although they're also using the core stuff that NBA like Kinexon or Synergy. If you want to see who's an important player for a team, you'll check how many minutes he has when the score is tight or during clutch time in 4th quarter (last 2-3 minutes, depending on score difference) and you always have to adjust for foul trouble. Since players are playing similar amounts of minutes with their "backups", you check how many of those minutes were at a more important stage and you also check if the other players used in that position were in foul trouble (2 fouls in 1st quarter, 3 fouls by early 3rd quarter or 4 fouls in the late stages of the game are typically used).
You're not going to see coaches base their entire system on analytics.


Now off to the 4th quarter of the final. Let's hope for a fighting spirit from Serbia to take this to OT, I'd like to see more of this :D

Great write up! Greatly appreciate the effort!

Do you think Rokas can play in the NBA?

NYKalltheway
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9/12/2023  1:29 AM
Yeah of course he can. But hia success chances depend on where he lands and what role he'll be called to fill

If you expect him to be the primary offensive force somewhere, I think that's still early.

martin
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9/12/2023  8:37 AM
NYKalltheway wrote:Yeah of course he can. But hia success chances depend on where he lands and what role he'll be called to fill

If you expect him to be the primary offensive force somewhere, I think that's still early.

Do you have connections back to the Antetokounmpo family? And how has the flooding been?

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martin
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9/13/2023  1:11 PM
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NYKalltheway
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9/14/2023  7:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/14/2023  7:42 AM
martin wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:Yeah of course he can. But hia success chances depend on where he lands and what role he'll be called to fill

If you expect him to be the primary offensive force somewhere, I think that's still early.

Do you have connections back to the Antetokounmpo family? And how has the flooding been?


No, I do have contacts who know the family but that's about it. I first heard about him and saw him llay in early 2011, before he started playing for his first team at the 3rd tier Greek league. Everyone tried to sign him when he was 16-18 but he didn't really want to move from his semi-pro local side. And he followed good advice to move to the NBA early, he wouldn't get this physical development over here.

Back in PSD I did tell the Bucks fans during the draft days that they hit the lottery and potentially got themselves the heir to Magic Johnson. His basketball style changed over time and I'm buying the Shaq narrative (in an alternate universe, so I wouldn't call him the next Magic anymore.
I wanted him to fall to NYK so bad, but I'm not sure if we'd draft him, and if we had the patience to develop someone who was so young and cannot shoot.


Floods, fires and all other natural disasters have just been too much to handle. But we're used to catastrophes and bad governmental management I suppose, which makes things even more sad.

Nalod
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9/14/2023  8:11 AM
NYKalltheway wrote:
martin wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:Yeah of course he can. But hia success chances depend on where he lands and what role he'll be called to fill

If you expect him to be the primary offensive force somewhere, I think that's still early.

Do you have connections back to the Antetokounmpo family? And how has the flooding been?


No, I do have contacts who know the family but that's about it. I first heard about him and saw him llay in early 2011, before he started playing for his first team at the 3rd tier Greek league. Everyone tried to sign him when he was 16-18 but he didn't really want to move from his semi-pro local side. And he followed good advice to move to the NBA early, he wouldn't get this physical development over here.

Back in PSD I did tell the Bucks fans during the draft days that they hit the lottery and potentially got themselves the heir to Magic Johnson. His basketball style changed over time and I'm buying the Shaq narrative (in an alternate universe, so I wouldn't call him the next Magic anymore.
I wanted him to fall to NYK so bad, but I'm not sure if we'd draft him, and if we had the patience to develop someone who was so young and cannot shoot.


Floods, fires and all other natural disasters have just been too much to handle. But we're used to catastrophes and bad governmental management I suppose, which makes things even more sad.

Was in your country this past July and did breath in some of the smoke from the fires. Hope things calm down in your world.
Giannis is on the knicks short list and logically they have but one more run left in them this year. They would be a top 2 contender in the east and after that its also reasonable they move him.
They won a chip and they also don’t have much in draft capital to rebuild having spent a good deal of it keeping this run going. Its been a good run though! If handled correctly the fan base should not feel betrayed if he wants out, and Bucks should not be vilified for moving him either. Its actually just smart business.
One might say the same for Embiid in Phila. Lilliards only issue is the Miami subject. Portland should move him to a team aspiring to contend and has the assets to make it happen. In the end everyone will get what they want there.

Your take on Roka is fair. He seems to have gotten good reviews this summer with no one really thinking “Star”. “Solid” is still pretty good. Like others before him getting the money and the opportunity to play is not easy to orchestrate.

The trio of DDV, Grimes and IQ is illogical on paper for now. Throw Evan in the mix who can still play a role in the league and one can expect a trade at some point. For Leon its keeping the powder dry until one of the “stars” shake lose.

Jules is no superstar but when you have a PF that avg’s 24pts a game its nice piece to have as part of a trade.
An allstar (him), a young valuable player in IQ or Grimes, and 4 picks. Thats not chump change. Only Thunder can really blow us away with younger players and the picks.

martin
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9/14/2023  8:50 AM
NYKalltheway wrote:
martin wrote:
NYKalltheway wrote:Yeah of course he can. But hia success chances depend on where he lands and what role he'll be called to fill

If you expect him to be the primary offensive force somewhere, I think that's still early.

Do you have connections back to the Antetokounmpo family? And how has the flooding been?


No, I do have contacts who know the family but that's about it. I first heard about him and saw him llay in early 2011, before he started playing for his first team at the 3rd tier Greek league. Everyone tried to sign him when he was 16-18 but he didn't really want to move from his semi-pro local side. And he followed good advice to move to the NBA early, he wouldn't get this physical development over here.

Back in PSD I did tell the Bucks fans during the draft days that they hit the lottery and potentially got themselves the heir to Magic Johnson. His basketball style changed over time and I'm buying the Shaq narrative (in an alternate universe, so I wouldn't call him the next Magic anymore.
I wanted him to fall to NYK so bad, but I'm not sure if we'd draft him, and if we had the patience to develop someone who was so young and cannot shoot.


Floods, fires and all other natural disasters have just been too much to handle. But we're used to catastrophes and bad governmental management I suppose, which makes things even more sad.

Ha, can't shoot and very young? That's half of the Knicks draft picks over the last 2 decades

I keep reading about natural disasters all over the world and see videos of cars just floating down streets and fires taking hundreds of acres everywhere or cities that have just disappeared. I don't know how people are doing this. Luck to everyone

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martin
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3/26/2024  5:36 PM
Had to do a deep dive to revive this thread

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3/26/2024  6:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/26/2024  6:03 PM
martin wrote:Had to do a deep dive to revive this thread

So that essentially means he’s playing for the Knicks SL unless traded right ? I don’t see any other scenario possible. That being said, I would be curious how he compared to Tyler Kolek, a player who’s been mocked to us many times to fill the backup playmaker need. The reason I mention Kolek is because he’s similar age, similar size, and their games are generally similar as lefties who are natural playmakers and make up for athletic limitations with craftiness and skill. So which player is better, and do the Knicks draft a guard because they don’t think Rokas is that good, or forgo a guard in the draft because they think Rokas is the answer as a backup PG?

Rokas Jokubaitis alert

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