EwingsGlass wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:
Less than 47 is conceding you are worse than last year - or that last year was a fluke. I don't think it was a fluke. I don't think we are worse than last year - even on a comparative basis.

Without reading into Preseason too much

For the record, what the Knicks 82-game record might be in the spring of 2022 isn't in any way the point in mid-October 2021.

The point is its mid-October.

The 2021 NBA champion Milwaukee Bucks started 2-3 and then 16-13 (a 45 in 82-game pace) last season.

The team they met in the finals the Phoenix Suns started 8-8.

The point isn't what some end of the season "goal" is.

The point is to let the season happen for a few weeks to a couple of months, because as professional sports demonstrates to us all on a constant basis, what happens in the beginning of the season often has little relation to what happens at the end.

Briggs is setting himself up to complain if the Knicks winning % ever falls below .700 at any point in the season, including week 1.

Which is ridiculous.

Nah - He is full of bona fide hope that this team will excel during the regular season.

Except the OP of this thread isn't about all the reasons they'll finish with 60 wins.

It's all about reasons they won't, based on 4 practice games that the Knicks won.

Thread start was clearly a present sense impression during a game where Kemba and Fournier both looked a bit off on offense and a bit slow on defense.

Always fascinating the blind spot some "fans" have for this...

OK, where is the present tense impression that Rose and Toppin looked great and Barrett still looks like a .400 3=pt shooter and how Randle calmly drained a buzzer-beater?

Why it the thread start clearly a present sense impression of negativity ... solely?

Fair question, right?

Me, I think people who take the good performance for granted as if that should be the default and can only focus on the poor performance don't really understand what they're watching.

IQ's early pre-season showed him with a improved passing game -- that first Indiana game made him look like a triple double threat with 30+ minutes.

Or maybe he just had a good passing/high assists game like he's had before in the NBA and that game wasn't indicative of some new level of ability?

He kind of regressed back to the mean.

See? There it is right there.

STOP thinking of games as a trend.

But seeing him put up 7 assists and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes got my imagination popping.

That's on you. Seen too much sports to ever start dreaming on one game.

And the good news is, doesn't mean you can't enjoy the good games. They're still great for being good games.

But I don't know how people who watch professional sports all the time aren't conditioned NOT to let one game fire up their imagination.

Errm, not sure what you are arguing. I dream when I buy a lotto ticket also. It’s part of the fun.

As I say, blindspot.

If projecting negative or positive longterm outcomes based (on this case, very) small sample sizes is "fun," then cool.

But that's irrelevant to the fact in professional sports, small sample sizes, particularly at the start of seasons, even more particularly in preseasons, are misleading and unreliable.

In a forum where analysis of sports is kind of the whole point, don't be so confused when you're told your analysis is probably way premature and history proves year after year in sport after sport if you're drawing conclusions after a couple of early games, you're probably gonna be wrong.

Can't be any clearer than that.

I said my analysis is premature. You are calling me out when I already called myself out. You don’t need to police my posts for severe optimism. I’m not blind to it. My kook aid is flowing. It’s not a blind spot, it’s a conscious choice.

Well, great.

So in a public forum you're just exempt from response unless you're agreed with? Anyone who also recognizes your flawed basis of analysis can't say so? You're protected because you KNOW what you're posting is flawed?

Interesting POV, to say the least.

Tell ya what, I'm sure Martin is following this and if he think I or anyone else can't scrutinize your posts because you already know they're BS, I'm certain he'll explain that to me.

But that said, again, you're not in a "kook aid" thread. You're in the twisted opposite of that. Where flawed analysis results in waay premature handwringing and suggestions for actions that aren't going to occur, because the Knicks know the analysis is flawed too.

So, yeah.

EwingsGlass wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Professional athletes have bad games, and bad weeks.

Never gonna change.

Teams have bad games and bad weeks.

Never gonna change.

Knicks talent/depth is not SO much better than other teams that they're going to be able to overcome bad games/off nights by key players, like all-time GREAT NBA teams can/could.

To dissect every bad game/loss as somehow preventable either by coaching, practice, or attitude isn't some higher form of fandom, it's ignorance of the nature of the game.

Knicks aren't a 60+ win team this year. Knicks are not championship caliber this year.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

And there is nothing attitude/approach/outlook will do to change an objective fact.

That’s your opinion— mine is they can win 60 if everything clicks. But we gotta be on it from game 1. That really was the basis of this thread

I’m pulling for 55-61 wins. 61 is home court all way through

I’m sure you just set these completely unrealistic expectations just so you can complain about the team not meeting them a few weeks/games later- you just seem to swing back and forth between two extremes, it must be exhausting!

Id bet a lot of money the Knicks organization has a true goal of 55-61 wins. Not as a fairy tale but hard numbers.

Less than 47 is conceding you are worse than last year - or that last year was a fluke. I don't think it was a fluke. I don't think we are worse than last year - even on a comparative basis.

Without reading into Preseason too much - both a small sample set and a very early assessment -- the Knicks were very good at certain things that should translate well into regular season.

They had the lowest turnovers in pre-season.

They had the second highest FT% (Suns were highest).

3rd highest 3pt%.

Other effort stats (offensive reb% and such) were all quite good as well.

I'm not saying they are going 82-0 based on the pre-season, but they are doing a lot of things right.

Their offense is better than last year's but their defense is currently worse - (notably, they were without both Noel and Robinson until Robinson's appearance in the final pre-season game). I think it will take a few games for that defense to fully mesh. But if they can improve their OffRtg without giving too much up on the DefRtg, I think they will be a much better team.

Those three things - TOs, FT% and 3PT% will have a significant impact on their eFG and their ability to win games.

In short, I am more with Briggs than the rest of you. Put me down for 53 as my +/- for the Knicks this year with them hitting the + hard if Kemba can stay healthy and play average or better defense.

Knickoftime - not sure what we are arguing about.

Just to be clear, there is no argument.

And it's you that's keeping this alive.

I just see you calling “blind spot” and making comments that I am taking too much out of the preseason. My point is that I outright acknowledged your points in an earlier post - that it is the preseason and a small sample set. See the bolded language above. It cant be a blind spot if I am consciously aware of it.

The blindspot is we're not talking about YOU per se. But you don't seem to grasp that.

As much as you perceive your flawed basis of analysis is a conscious decision and that to you it's part of the "fun," your blindspot is the incessant negatively and flip-flopping of other "fans", including (but not limited to) the one that started THIS thread, comes from the same place your "kool aid" POV comes from - impatience and a lack of core basketball acumen (don't react negatively to that, you've spent the last 3 posts trying to get me to acknowledge that you admit it).

It takes minimal observation skills to know for certain, that due to this shortsighted, premature approach, Kemba Walker is ALREADY in th crosshairs of some fans, and a combination of handwringing about his potential health and his shooting performance in THREE practice games has fans who share your quick-draw, premature approach ready to throw him overboard, maybe as soon as tonight if he has anything ranging from a poor to even average first game.

THAT's what this OP was about, and what ALL of my posts are about, not YOU specifically.

I’m certainly excited for this season, and drinking my kool aid, (albeit with more typos - appreciate the grammar policing also).

Spelling, not grammar.

Just saying, your posts appear to be calling me out for weaknesses I acknowledge, without adding substantive value to the conversation.

So, is your point not to read into pre-season (agreed — see above) or is there some other point you are trying to make?

Nope, but as your questions and posts make plain, you don't yet understand the point being made.

So we'll see what happens over the next couple of days.

But if you can't see that Walker and Fournier are being set-up to be this season's targets of ire (there ALWAYS has to be one or two), then I honestly don't know what else to tell you.

Knickoftime wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Professional athletes have bad games, and bad weeks.

Never gonna change.

Teams have bad games and bad weeks.

Never gonna change.

Knicks talent/depth is not SO much better than other teams that they're going to be able to overcome bad games/off nights by key players, like all-time GREAT NBA teams can/could.

To dissect every bad game/loss as somehow preventable either by coaching, practice, or attitude isn't some higher form of fandom, it's ignorance of the nature of the game.

Knicks aren't a 60+ win team this year. Knicks are not championship caliber this year.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

And there is nothing attitude/approach/outlook will do to change an objective fact.

That’s your opinion— mine is they can win 60 if everything clicks. But we gotta be on it from game 1. That really was the basis of this thread

I’m pulling for 55-61 wins. 61 is home court all way through

I’m sure you just set these completely unrealistic expectations just so you can complain about the team not meeting them a few weeks/games later- you just seem to swing back and forth between two extremes, it must be exhausting!

Id bet a lot of money the Knicks organization has a true goal of 55-61 wins. Not as a fairy tale but hard numbers.

Less than 47 is conceding you are worse than last year - or that last year was a fluke. I don't think it was a fluke. I don't think we are worse than last year - even on a comparative basis.

Without reading into Preseason too much - both a small sample set and a very early assessment -- the Knicks were very good at certain things that should translate well into regular season.

They had the lowest turnovers in pre-season.

They had the second highest FT% (Suns were highest).

3rd highest 3pt%.

Other effort stats (offensive reb% and such) were all quite good as well.

I'm not saying they are going 82-0 based on the pre-season, but they are doing a lot of things right.

Their offense is better than last year's but their defense is currently worse - (notably, they were without both Noel and Robinson until Robinson's appearance in the final pre-season game). I think it will take a few games for that defense to fully mesh. But if they can improve their OffRtg without giving too much up on the DefRtg, I think they will be a much better team.

Those three things - TOs, FT% and 3PT% will have a significant impact on their eFG and their ability to win games.

In short, I am more with Briggs than the rest of you. Put me down for 53 as my +/- for the Knicks this year with them hitting the + hard if Kemba can stay healthy and play average or better defense.

Knickoftime - not sure what we are arguing about.

Just to be clear, there is no argument.

And it's you that's keeping this alive.

I just see you calling “blind spot” and making comments that I am taking too much out of the preseason. My point is that I outright acknowledged your points in an earlier post - that it is the preseason and a small sample set. See the bolded language above. It cant be a blind spot if I am consciously aware of it.

The blindspot is we're not talking about YOU per se. But you don't seem to grasp that.

As much as you perceive your flawed basis of analysis is a conscious decision and that to you it's part of the "fun," your blindspot is the incessant negatively and flip-flopping of other "fans", including (but not limited to) the one that started THIS thread, comes from the same place your "kool aid" POV comes from - impatience and a lack of core basketball acumen (don't react negatively to that, you've spent the last 3 posts trying to get me to acknowledge that you admit it).

It takes minimal observation skills to know for certain, that due to this shortsighted, premature approach, Kemba Walker is ALREADY in th crosshairs of some fans, and a combination of handwringing about his potential health and his shooting performance in THREE practice games has fans who share your quick-draw, premature approach ready to throw him overboard, maybe as soon as tonight if he has anything ranging from a poor to even average first game.

THAT's what this OP was about, and what ALL of my posts are about, not YOU specifically.

I’m certainly excited for this season, and drinking my kool aid, (albeit with more typos - appreciate the grammar policing also).

Spelling, not grammar.

Just saying, your posts appear to be calling me out for weaknesses I acknowledge, without adding substantive value to the conversation.

So, is your point not to read into pre-season (agreed — see above) or is there some other point you are trying to make?

Nope, but as your questions and posts make plain, you don't yet understand the point being made.

So we'll see what happens over the next couple of days.

But if you can't see that Walker and Fournier are being set-up to be this season's targets of ire (there ALWAYS has to be one or two), then I honestly don't know what else to tell you.

My predictions on the candidates for targets of fan Ire this year:

- Knox will take over from Frank in the lead villain role as former draft pick who is a bum
- There will be more calls to jettison Mitch - based on fan impatience expecting him to jump in at full speed while he shakes off the rust
- Any bad or uneven shooting performance from IQ will lead to instant calls for Grimes
- Fournier as "trade bait" will be trending based on snippets of Grimes in garbage time
- There will be a constant chatter to reduce Rose & Kemba's minutes and get the Deuce in there
- When a certain poster returns - the Obi "Ski Rack" and "Orange Cone" bashing and mysogenistic analogies will begin anew

God that's an alarming thing to say.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1450994504937390081

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I’m sorry, what were we talking about?

Fournier was an aggravating player to watch on D 4th quarter and 1st OT. Looked lost out there. And then he’d hit clutch 3 after clutch 3

It will take time for them to get use to the rotations. I think in the end Fournier will play at least average defense. I worry about Kemba given his height and slight build but we should be good. Thibs will stay on them about the D.

7. Evan Fournier (New York Knicks)

2020-21 numbers: 17.1 points, 3.4 assists, 3.0 rebounds

Expect Evan Fournier to enter the new season with an extra hyper momentum after leading France to winning the silver medal in the Olympic Games of Tokyo. Before he got traded to the Boston Celtics in March, he was averaging a career-high 19.7 points with the Orlando Magic and will seek to return to a similar, if not more impressive form, now in New York with the Knicks.