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Countdown to NY Knicks Tipoff vs. Boston Celtics (October 20th @ 7:30).
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martin
Posts: 56290
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10/22/2021  1:49 PM
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Still interesting to me how quiet Knicks forums get the day after a win...

noise

riddle me this batman - how would u have felt if we had completed our mission to give this game away? the difference between winning and losing is pretty huge isn’t it? dudes will rationalize but i suspect most would have been crushed and instead most were exalted

I would have felt like I watched a typical NBA game.

The Knicks are GOING to blow games they look like they should win. EVERY team does. It's the nature of the game.

If what happened continues to happen on a consistent basis, then that's a different animal.

But I'm not gonna lose sleep over what I know will be a well-coached, highly motivated team not being perfect on day 1 particularly when Brown is throwing heaves in from the lower case 'k' with 8 second on the clock.

yeah that’s not me.
at all.

i got no reason to watch if i don’t have an emotional investment every time i do. winning wednesday was a huge high for me and i would had a big letdown if we lost. don’t get what’s the reason to watch otherwise. it’s that interesting from some detached angle? sounds like drinking nonalcoholic booze

Interesting, and some what dovetails into an exchange I had with Martin this week.

For one, I don't think having an motional investment means leaving what you fundamentally know on the side of the road. That seems more like a calculated decision.

That said, and more importantly, I actually LIKE NBA basketball, and MLB and NFL football (and sometimes golf and tennis and Olympic sports, etc.)

To suggest there is NO reason to watch sports without some deeply emotional rooting interest seems to be more or less dismissing sports as just an excuse.

What you're describing to me sounds more like being a fan of being a fan of the Knicks, rather than being a fan of the Knicks and the game they play.

And as it pertains to here, what do we all do 99% of the time, talk about the equity of trades, try to evaluate players and prospects, which is all empirical, not emotional.

Sure I could say I'm a Knicks fans so I want to trade Knox for Doncic and I don't care its ridiculous because I'm a fan.

But...

As to your last point, I assure you I enjoy seeing the teams I've followed since I was a kid win. Your seeming assumption that being analytical about sports and not throwing out everything you know means you don't have emotional attachment is not only completely false, it seems much more about where you're coming from then where I'm coming from.

Emotional doesn't have to mean irrational.

Always (which is often) interesting to see "fans" make this argument. Because like a lot of things, it seem to be all about "ME"

appreciate your response.

i wouldn’t say I’m ENTIRELY irrational just because I’m emotional 😉 I have lots of opinions on the knicks, their players, FO, coaching decisions, draft choices, FA signings, potential trades, etc.

but it all leads up to those 2.5 hours when my nervous system is engaged and firing. that immersion is a very emotional experience, and it means you may come out of it with a lot of positive emotions or you may come out with it with negative ones. that’s what you’re in for. doesn’t mean you lose all analytical capacity and think you’re trading knox for doncic (not unless they throw in a #1, anyway). but without that level of attachment and vicarious experience i have no reason to “follow” the team to the extent that i do. there’s no return for me in all the analytical time without the payoff of being that vividly dialed in during the games. win or lose with your team, you’re there with the highs and the lows. that’s where guys lose me when their posts after a game are all about, ‘just remember it’s only one game . . .” that’s beyond obvious and misses the point that you get the opportunity to have 82 (and hopefully more) live-or-die thrill experiences - why miss them? that’s my stake in being a knicks fan.

you sure that's just not the alcohol mixed in with some blue pill powder? I get so confused these days

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Knickoftime
Posts: 23735
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Member: #3370

10/22/2021  3:20 PM
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Still interesting to me how quiet Knicks forums get the day after a win...

noise

riddle me this batman - how would u have felt if we had completed our mission to give this game away? the difference between winning and losing is pretty huge isn’t it? dudes will rationalize but i suspect most would have been crushed and instead most were exalted

I would have felt like I watched a typical NBA game.

The Knicks are GOING to blow games they look like they should win. EVERY team does. It's the nature of the game.

If what happened continues to happen on a consistent basis, then that's a different animal.

But I'm not gonna lose sleep over what I know will be a well-coached, highly motivated team not being perfect on day 1 particularly when Brown is throwing heaves in from the lower case 'k' with 8 second on the clock.

yeah that’s not me.
at all.

i got no reason to watch if i don’t have an emotional investment every time i do. winning wednesday was a huge high for me and i would had a big letdown if we lost. don’t get what’s the reason to watch otherwise. it’s that interesting from some detached angle? sounds like drinking nonalcoholic booze

Interesting, and some what dovetails into an exchange I had with Martin this week.

For one, I don't think having an motional investment means leaving what you fundamentally know on the side of the road. That seems more like a calculated decision.

That said, and more importantly, I actually LIKE NBA basketball, and MLB and NFL football (and sometimes golf and tennis and Olympic sports, etc.)

To suggest there is NO reason to watch sports without some deeply emotional rooting interest seems to be more or less dismissing sports as just an excuse.

What you're describing to me sounds more like being a fan of being a fan of the Knicks, rather than being a fan of the Knicks and the game they play.

And as it pertains to here, what do we all do 99% of the time, talk about the equity of trades, try to evaluate players and prospects, which is all empirical, not emotional.

Sure I could say I'm a Knicks fans so I want to trade Knox for Doncic and I don't care its ridiculous because I'm a fan.

But...

As to your last point, I assure you I enjoy seeing the teams I've followed since I was a kid win. Your seeming assumption that being analytical about sports and not throwing out everything you know means you don't have emotional attachment is not only completely false, it seems much more about where you're coming from then where I'm coming from.

Emotional doesn't have to mean irrational.

Always (which is often) interesting to see "fans" make this argument. Because like a lot of things, it seem to be all about "ME"

appreciate your response.

i wouldn’t say I’m ENTIRELY irrational just because I’m emotional 😉 I have lots of opinions on the knicks, their players, FO, coaching decisions, draft choices, FA signings, potential trades, etc.

but it all leads up to those 2.5 hours when my nervous system is engaged and firing. that immersion is a very emotional experience, and it means you may come out of it with a lot of positive emotions or you may come out with it with negative ones. that’s what you’re in for. doesn’t mean you lose all analytical capacity and think you’re trading knox for doncic (not unless they throw in a #1, anyway). but without that level of attachment and vicarious experience i have no reason to “follow” the team to the extent that i do. there’s no return for me in all the analytical time without the payoff of being that vividly dialed in during the games. win or lose with your team, you’re there with the highs and the lows. that’s where guys lose me when their posts after a game are all about, ‘just remember it’s only one game . . .” that’s beyond obvious and misses the point that you get the opportunity to have 82 (and hopefully more) live-or-die thrill experiences - why miss them? that’s my stake in being a knicks fan.

Just to be clear, as much as it grinds people, including the leadership of this forum, what interests me is the intersection of knowledge and fandom. Its not an either/or thing as some seem to WANT it to be (because as he end of the day I don't think anyone really can to the degree they often find themselves arguing for).

As i said in another thread, the videos of fans going crazy outside MSG after wins has now become self-conscious. Once you put a camera on people and social media and ESPN and Barstool pick it up, the earnestness is gone. It' now performance by people who LIKE that image of Knicks fans.

And for the record, as much as I argue against fandom superceding analysis, i don't come into the game threads during those 2.5 hours. I'm happy for guys to have your experience.

But to be honest, I genuinely think it's less about the sport and team you're watching and more about the experience you're obviously so fond and prideful about.

As I say I think it's more about being a fan of being a fan rather than being a fan of the sport. I'm firmly in the latter camp and have no bid for the former.

What you describe seems (to me) to be an activity, and experience unto itself, with the fact that it's sort of about basketball and the Knicks secondary (at best).

But again, as often my approach is me with hostility (including from the leadership of this board) I let you guys have the game experience.

But now, after the fact, you and I both know that what happened Wed night was just a fairly typical basketball game, and NOTHING that happened in it was unusual or would have been anything more than fortunate or unfortunate randomness.

Right?

Marv
Posts: 35363
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
10/22/2021  4:17 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Marv wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Still interesting to me how quiet Knicks forums get the day after a win...

noise

riddle me this batman - how would u have felt if we had completed our mission to give this game away? the difference between winning and losing is pretty huge isn’t it? dudes will rationalize but i suspect most would have been crushed and instead most were exalted

I would have felt like I watched a typical NBA game.

The Knicks are GOING to blow games they look like they should win. EVERY team does. It's the nature of the game.

If what happened continues to happen on a consistent basis, then that's a different animal.

But I'm not gonna lose sleep over what I know will be a well-coached, highly motivated team not being perfect on day 1 particularly when Brown is throwing heaves in from the lower case 'k' with 8 second on the clock.

yeah that’s not me.
at all.

i got no reason to watch if i don’t have an emotional investment every time i do. winning wednesday was a huge high for me and i would had a big letdown if we lost. don’t get what’s the reason to watch otherwise. it’s that interesting from some detached angle? sounds like drinking nonalcoholic booze

Interesting, and some what dovetails into an exchange I had with Martin this week.

For one, I don't think having an motional investment means leaving what you fundamentally know on the side of the road. That seems more like a calculated decision.

That said, and more importantly, I actually LIKE NBA basketball, and MLB and NFL football (and sometimes golf and tennis and Olympic sports, etc.)

To suggest there is NO reason to watch sports without some deeply emotional rooting interest seems to be more or less dismissing sports as just an excuse.

What you're describing to me sounds more like being a fan of being a fan of the Knicks, rather than being a fan of the Knicks and the game they play.

And as it pertains to here, what do we all do 99% of the time, talk about the equity of trades, try to evaluate players and prospects, which is all empirical, not emotional.

Sure I could say I'm a Knicks fans so I want to trade Knox for Doncic and I don't care its ridiculous because I'm a fan.

But...

As to your last point, I assure you I enjoy seeing the teams I've followed since I was a kid win. Your seeming assumption that being analytical about sports and not throwing out everything you know means you don't have emotional attachment is not only completely false, it seems much more about where you're coming from then where I'm coming from.

Emotional doesn't have to mean irrational.

Always (which is often) interesting to see "fans" make this argument. Because like a lot of things, it seem to be all about "ME"

appreciate your response.

i wouldn’t say I’m ENTIRELY irrational just because I’m emotional 😉 I have lots of opinions on the knicks, their players, FO, coaching decisions, draft choices, FA signings, potential trades, etc.

but it all leads up to those 2.5 hours when my nervous system is engaged and firing. that immersion is a very emotional experience, and it means you may come out of it with a lot of positive emotions or you may come out with it with negative ones. that’s what you’re in for. doesn’t mean you lose all analytical capacity and think you’re trading knox for doncic (not unless they throw in a #1, anyway). but without that level of attachment and vicarious experience i have no reason to “follow” the team to the extent that i do. there’s no return for me in all the analytical time without the payoff of being that vividly dialed in during the games. win or lose with your team, you’re there with the highs and the lows. that’s where guys lose me when their posts after a game are all about, ‘just remember it’s only one game . . .” that’s beyond obvious and misses the point that you get the opportunity to have 82 (and hopefully more) live-or-die thrill experiences - why miss them? that’s my stake in being a knicks fan.

Just to be clear, as much as it grinds people, including the leadership of this forum, what interests me is the intersection of knowledge and fandom. Its not an either/or thing as some seem to WANT it to be (because as he end of the day I don't think anyone really can to the degree they often find themselves arguing for).

As i said in another thread, the videos of fans going crazy outside MSG after wins has now become self-conscious. Once you put a camera on people and social media and ESPN and Barstool pick it up, the earnestness is gone. It' now performance by people who LIKE that image of Knicks fans.

And for the record, as much as I argue against fandom superceding analysis, i don't come into the game threads during those 2.5 hours. I'm happy for guys to have your experience.

But to be honest, I genuinely think it's less about the sport and team you're watching and more about the experience you're obviously so fond and prideful about.

As I say I think it's more about being a fan of being a fan rather than being a fan of the sport. I'm firmly in the latter camp and have no bid for the former.

What you describe seems (to me) to be an activity, and experience unto itself, with the fact that it's sort of about basketball and the Knicks secondary (at best).

But again, as often my approach is me with hostility (including from the leadership of this board) I let you guys have the game experience.

But now, after the fact, you and I both know that what happened Wed night was just a fairly typical basketball game, and NOTHING that happened in it was unusual or would have been anything more than fortunate or unfortunate randomness.

Right?

wait a sec, I’m trying to shake the remnants of alcohol and blue pill powder out of my head . . .

i must have missed some posts you’re referencing, so help me out a little with this part:

But now, after the fact, you and I both know that what happened Wed night was just a fairly typical basketball game, and NOTHING that happened in it was unusual or would have been anything more than fortunate or unfortunate randomness.
Right?

if you’re saying no one did anything that’s never been done before, like break wilt’s record, or take off from the halfcourt line and dunk . . .right

or by “fortunate or unfortunate randomness,” you mean you could spin the great random number generator wheel in the sky, and get a normal distribution of everything we saw in that game . . . right


but jumping jehosophat, son . . .

this was . . .

opening night

opening night of a particularly promising season with much anticipation

the introduction into the starting lineup of 2 new free agents who were highly anticipated and expected to address some glaring needs of the team

against a bitter division rival (whom BOTH of the above played for last year)

went into DOUBLE overtime

featured a dazzling display by one of the aforementioned new starters

showed us what we hoped and prayed could happen with obi this year

showed us that hopelessly decrepit mitch could dominate an nba basketball court


i mean for the love of sweet moses in a wicker basket, what about CONTEXT??? what about the unique reasons to view this game as not one of a random universe of equally distributed possible basketball games?

granted I may be a fan of being a fan or a fan of knicks fans or a fan of myself or a fan of fanning myself, but wtf about ALL THAT UNIQUE CONTEXT brother?!?!?

martin
Posts: 56290
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Joined: 7/24/2001
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USA
10/22/2021  4:31 PM
What about Sweet moses in a wicker basket? I am writing that down so I can use it some time
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 31826
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Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

10/22/2021  4:53 PM
martin wrote:What about Sweet moses in a wicker basket? I am writing that down so I can use it some time

Amelo!

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knickoftime
Posts: 23735
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Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

10/22/2021  5:08 PM
Marv wrote:if you’re saying no one did anything that’s never been done before, like break wilt’s record, or take off from the halfcourt line and dunk . . .right

or by “fortunate or unfortunate randomness,” you mean you could spin the great random number generator wheel in the sky, and get a normal distribution of everything we saw in that game . . . right

Right

but jumping jehosophat, son . . .

this was . . .

opening night

opening night of a particularly promising season with much anticipation

the introduction into the starting lineup of 2 new free agents who were highly anticipated and expected to address some glaring needs of the team

against a bitter division rival (whom BOTH of the above played for last year)

went into DOUBLE overtime

featured a dazzling display by one of the aforementioned new starters

showed us what we hoped and prayed could happen with obi this year

showed us that hopelessly decrepit mitch could dominate an nba basketball court


i mean for the love of sweet moses in a wicker basket, what about CONTEXT??? what about the unique reasons to view this game as not one of a random universe of equally distributed possible basketball games?

granted I may be a fan of being a fan or a fan of knicks fans or a fan of myself or a fan of fanning myself, but wtf about ALL THAT UNIQUE CONTEXT brother?!?!?

You're juxtaposing arguments here.

I am in no way litigating you going crazy wanting the Knicks to win.

I'm answering the question YOU posed to me.

And the answer was no, I would not be mad at Walker for the TO's or at Thibs for how the final 5 min offense ran. I can be disappointed the Knicks lost A game, and at the same time not be looking for a pound of flesh and someone to blame it on.

The passion for a game is NOT the same thing as a need to go nuclear on the players who had a bad game or a moment that helped lose the game.

I'm fine with the former, but if you'r defending the latter of some sort of uncontrollable and/or higher form of genuine fandom, I call bull****.

We both know a few things for sure.

1.) Opening night is overblown.

I get you LIKE that it's overblown, but it's overblown.

2.) It is one of 82 games, with no more predictive power than any of the other 81.

Now you may not WANT this to be true, but we both know it is, and i think arguing opening night is somehow more than that is more of an intellectual argument on your part than i think you care to admit.

Truth is truth, and putting truth aside is a DECISION.

Some of you guys LIKE (more love) the fact that you get crazy and emotional during games (I know this for sure given how much you so admirable describe it), but the level by which you can explain it suggests its less genuine and spontaneous that you're trying to sell.

It's how you fan, and that's fine, but don't try to sell me its not under your control. it is, which also means it's conscious.

Which again, is fine. I honestly don't begrudge you your gameface. But if anyone bothered to look closely enough (which they haven't, despite the fact they should) they'd realize I mostly get on posters who turn their fandom negative on players and coaches who don't deserve it.

Being genuinely disappointed in a loss is NOT the same thing as whining and bitching after the fact so don't even go there.

That's indefensible, IMO.

Countdown to NY Knicks Tipoff vs. Boston Celtics (October 20th @ 7:30).

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