CleaverGreene wrote:

Clean wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Only 24 hours in a day，so I am not opposed to him improving， I just think he should be concentrating on the skills that are most fit for his position. Free throw shooting is the big one， so I'd rather him spend more time on his free throws and less on jump shots. Tyson Chandler was a good example. During the 2013 offseason he spent time working on his jump shot too- which he used just once in season. Those 3 point shots were indicative of the bad advice he got during previous offseason. Mike Woodson's evaluation of his defense at the beginning of this season (bad) is indicative of what he should be working on.

Yea I have come to the conclusion that him training his jump shot is a waste of time. The way he is wired he never puts himself in a situation where he even has a chance to shoot a jump shot. After every screen he rolls hard to the rim. I don't think I have ever seen him Pick and pop once. He never finds an open space so he can shoot the ball. I am just not sure where the jump shot opportunities will come from.

If he becomes a 70% FT shooter, he might be able to hit a J in an emergency...but people still seem to be sleeping on his post game, which goes hand in hand with offensive rebounds. If he get an offensive rebound and can't put the ball in from 3 ft, what is the point?

Just to be clear here...

If he doesn't go immediately back up with the ball, there is no point?

Getting the ball into the hands of Walker, Rose, Fournier, Barrett, Randle, or Burks or Quickley with 14 seconds on the clock and keeping it out of he other team's end of the floor is without a point.

Huh...

I've been watching basketball wrong.

knicks1248 wrote:On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Ummmmmm, would someone like to explain the pnR to our friend here, or should I?

If you guard the one alley oop move, the ballhandler gets to the basket, which is ... you know ... the whole point of the PnR.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Ummmmmm, would someone like to explain the pnR to our friend here, or should I?

If you guard the one alley oop move, the ballhandler gets to the basket, which is ... you know ... the whole point of the PnR.

If was that easy the play would have a 99% successful rate from any team.

My point is not about the PnR it's about that being mitch's only offense move..A layup or Dunk, how do you space the floor when he's in the game?

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Ummmmmm, would someone like to explain the pnR to our friend here, or should I?

If you guard the one alley oop move, the ballhandler gets to the basket, which is ... you know ... the whole point of the PnR.

If was that easy the play would have a 99% successful rate from any team.

My point is not about the PnR it's about that being mitch's only offense move..A layup or Dunk, how do you space the floor when he's in the game?

We just saw it with Atlanta. The threat of the lob gave Trae more space to operate. The big man moves up, the lob becomes a threat. The big man drops back, Trae hits the floater or kicks out for the open three. I do agree that it would be nice if Mitch had a short to mid-range J, but I don't want him taking those shots to the detriment of the things he does well.

A problem with Mitch is he does not set good hard screens to give the PG enough room to operate. Mitch is so preoccupied with rolling to the hoop he does not give the PG enough of an advantage over the defender. This why 1 of the reasons why I fell in love with Sims. In every highlight Sims is setting a good hard screen in 90% of it.

CleaverGreene wrote: Why can't he polish his game? Why can't he spend a summer, if not injured, just working on his foul shooting and post-up moves/footwork?

Always so surprised to see this argument from any fan who follows sports closely.

If everyone could just do that, everyone would be stars.

THAT is exactly what separates the average to the good to the great.

EVERYONE in pro sports has the tools to be there, but the ones who stick around (which is the minority) and the ones who becomes great (a tiny %) are the ones with the rare ability to add on and improve along the way.

Why can't everyone learn to hit for a higher avg? Strike more batters out? Throw a higher % of completions? Learn to defend passes better?

Not everyone who plays in the NBA will be on a significant upward curve for years at a time.

A LOT top out fairly early, but if they have a useable skillset, they stick around.

Robinson is still young, still relatively inexperienced and he is who he is. It may take some more time or it may never happen at all.

But the resentment this breeds in fans towards players like his is unfortunate.

Mitch Robinson can play on my favorite team exactly the way he is for a while. As Ny Giant head coach Joe Judge says (stolen from Belicheck) 'tell me what a player can do, not what he can't."

Lighten up fellas. It's just a game and like MOST PRO ATHLETES EVER, he may not add significant new skills.

You'll live.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Ummmmmm, would someone like to explain the pnR to our friend here, or should I?

If you guard the one alley oop move, the ballhandler gets to the basket, which is ... you know ... the whole point of the PnR.

If was that easy the play would have a 99% successful rate from any team.

My point is not about the PnR it's about that being mitch's only offense move..A layup or Dunk, how do you space the floor when he's in the game?

I'm not sure how good it's going to do to inform some people here Mitch Robinson is one of the most effective rollers in the NBA.

Clean wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Ummmmmm, would someone like to explain the pnR to our friend here, or should I?

If you guard the one alley oop move, the ballhandler gets to the basket, which is ... you know ... the whole point of the PnR.

If was that easy the play would have a 99% successful rate from any team.

My point is not about the PnR it's about that being mitch's only offense move..A layup or Dunk, how do you space the floor when he's in the game?

We just saw it with Atlanta. The threat of the lob gave Trae more space to operate. The big man moves up, the lob becomes a threat. The big man drops back, Trae hits the floater or kicks out for the open three. I do agree that it would be nice if Mitch had a short to mid-range J, but I don't want him taking those shots to the detriment of the things he does well.

A problem with Mitch is he does not set good hard screens to give the PG enough room to operate. Mitch is so preoccupied with rolling to the hoop he does not give the PG enough of an advantage over the defender. This why 1 of the reasons why I fell in love with Sims. In every highlight Sims is setting a good hard screen in 90% of it.

CleaverGreene wrote:Think about what Ben Simmons (so far) doesn't have in common with Lebron James and ex-Knick David Lee...and why the Sixers are probably willing to let a so called "generational talent" go.

You just made my point for me.

No, everyone isn't Lebron James... that's what makes Lebron James Lebron James.

That's why there is players like Draymond Green on one end and David Lee on the other.

David Lee added a baby jumper to his game yes.

But David Lee for his all commendable work on a 12 footer couldn't work on improving his defensive awareness to save his damn life... or should I say his amn life.

The best players CAN add, and then add some more, and then apply in games situations.

THAT's what makes them great. Yet so many sports fans utterly miss that.

Which is fine, no harm done.

Until wet get garbage like this.

The best players, and even some who aren't "great," work hard to address their weaknesses in the offseason. This may be why people are now talking about more minutes for Obi.

I guess Mitch is a special case, and has no need to work on things. Good for him...and you.

Every pro in the major sports has 8, 9-figure generational wealth incentive to improve. To work hard. You know how hard you need to work simply to be able to run up and down the floor in an NBA for 30 mins a night?

Its one thing to wish a toolsy player like Robinson could add on. It's another for a fan who just watches on TV to accuse players from their position of literal and absolute ignorance of not caring or not working hard enough.

That is is your assumption. That this is how you handle the minor 'frustration' that Mitch Robinson hasn't turned himself into an all-star ... yet ... says so, so much more about you than it does Mitchell Robinson, who none of us know an iota and have the slightest clue how much he cares or how hard he works.

Other than he has an NBA career, and is one of the very best in the NBA at a few of different skill sets.

Grow the hell up.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote: Why can't he polish his game? Why can't he spend a summer, if not injured, just working on his foul shooting and post-up moves/footwork?

Always so surprised to see this argument from any fan who follows sports closely.

If everyone could just do that, everyone would be stars.

THAT is exactly what separates the average to the good to the great.

EVERYONE in pro sports has the tools to be there, but the ones who stick around (which is the minority) and the ones who becomes great (a tiny %) are the ones with the rare ability to add on and improve along the way.

Why can't everyone learn to hit for a higher avg? Strike more batters out? Throw a higher % of completions? Learn to defend passes better?

Not everyone who plays in the NBA will be on a significant upward curve for years at a time.

A LOT top out fairly early, but if they have a useable skillset, they stick around.

Robinson is still young, still relatively inexperienced and he is who he is. It may take some more time or it may never happen at all.

But the resentment this breeds in fans towards players like his is unfortunate.

Mitch Robinson can play on my favorite team exactly the way he is for a while. As Ny Giant head coach Joe Judge says (stolen from Belicheck) 'tell me what a player can do, not what he can't."

Lighten up fellas. It's just a game and like MOST PRO ATHLETES EVER, he may not add significant new skills.

You'll live.

Nothing wrong with cleavergreene's view.

When you're negatively judging someone you don't know. When you're assessing a situation you have zero insight into, everything is wrong with it.

Wish Robinson would turn into an all-star?

Great. Enjoy.

Accusing him of not working hard or want to get better?

That's plain ignorance.

Especially considering the Knicks will soon have to decide if MR is worth a long term commitment. It's also not like we are talking asking MR to gain MJ type skills.

Huh. Yeah.

MJ was a career .327 pt shooter.

Didn't break .200 until year 5.

MH knew the difference between 2 and 3.

Shaq was a career .527 FT shooter. h knew he was going to take 10-13 FT a game in the postseason.

Guess neither were hard workers.

Ever see Charles Barkley swing a golf club?

Guess he doesn't care.

It is completely fair to expect incremental improvement from your young players. Along with LBJ type effort and commitment to improving. Think it is a losers mentality to say that not everyone can be great and be satisfied with where one is at. I want the guys that believe they can be great. And the ones that do everything they can to try become great. The guys that settle for average can hit the road.

You call is loser's mentality. I call is explaining the premise of pro sports.

That's why there is greatness. If everyone was or could be great, then nobody would be. Everyone would be average. Because in pro sports, greatness is a RELATIVE condition.

But sure, everyone who plays pro sports should be great, or they don't care or don't try hard.

What the heck is it you guys have been watching all these years.

Everyone who isn't Michael Phelps or Mike Trout just doesn't try as hard.

Good lord...

It's not like it takes much to hit the gym and improve a short catch and shoot jumper. Or to learn a dropstep to the basket. At least for the guys committed to improving. I appreciate all of MR's attributes.

Again, i don't know what it is you guys think you're watching. Everyone who laces up a pair of athletic shoes is supposed to improve or they're lazy?

Wow...

knicks1248 wrote:
If he would take his ass out of the paint to give others operating room the baseline jumper is there, the elbow jumper is there for the taking. you can't tell me it's not because Noah thrive in Thibs system and was pretty solid from 12 to 14 feet out.

The same spots OBI takes his perimeter shots is exactly where mitch needs to be, but his ass ain't comfortable out there..

On a PnR he's rolling to the RIM 100% of the time, and that's only successful 2 out of 10 times, teams will defend that with there eyes close when they know the only move you got is an ally oop

Can you explain the downside here? Him rolling to the rim makes it really difficult for the other team to try to play small ball right? Unless you have a shot blocker out there Mitchell is dunking it all day long. If the ball handler can get a 2 on 1 with a shooter in the corner，the defense is cooked. The defensive big can try to play 2 on 1 but then it's really tough to get in position for the offensive rebound.

What % does Robinson have to shoot on outside shots for that not to be a win for the defense? With the amount of 1 to 1 shot creators the Knicks have，when is that even a good shot?

The major point is- Robinson isn't a good finisher，he's a historically great one (so far). Steph Curry isn't spending his summer doing Milan drills.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote: Why can't he polish his game? Why can't he spend a summer, if not injured, just working on his foul shooting and post-up moves/footwork?

Always so surprised to see this argument from any fan who follows sports closely.

If everyone could just do that, everyone would be stars.

THAT is exactly what separates the average to the good to the great.

EVERYONE in pro sports has the tools to be there, but the ones who stick around (which is the minority) and the ones who becomes great (a tiny %) are the ones with the rare ability to add on and improve along the way.

Why can't everyone learn to hit for a higher avg? Strike more batters out? Throw a higher % of completions? Learn to defend passes better?

Not everyone who plays in the NBA will be on a significant upward curve for years at a time.

A LOT top out fairly early, but if they have a useable skillset, they stick around.

Robinson is still young, still relatively inexperienced and he is who he is. It may take some more time or it may never happen at all.

But the resentment this breeds in fans towards players like his is unfortunate.

Mitch Robinson can play on my favorite team exactly the way he is for a while. As Ny Giant head coach Joe Judge says (stolen from Belicheck) 'tell me what a player can do, not what he can't."

Lighten up fellas. It's just a game and like MOST PRO ATHLETES EVER, he may not add significant new skills.

You'll live.

Nothing wrong with cleavergreene's view.

When you're negatively judging someone you don't know. When you're assessing a situation you have zero insight into, everything is wrong with it.

Wish Robinson would turn into an all-star?

Great. Enjoy.

Accusing him of not working hard or want to get better?

That's plain ignorance.

Especially considering the Knicks will soon have to decide if MR is worth a long term commitment. It's also not like we are talking asking MR to gain MJ type skills.

Huh. Yeah.

MJ was a career .327 pt shooter.

Didn't break .200 until year 5.

MH knew the difference between 2 and 3.

Shaq was a career .527 FT shooter. h knew he was going to take 10-13 FT a game in the postseason.

Guess neither were hard workers.

Ever see Charles Barkley swing a golf club?

Guess he doesn't care.

It is completely fair to expect incremental improvement from your young players. Along with LBJ type effort and commitment to improving. Think it is a losers mentality to say that not everyone can be great and be satisfied with where one is at. I want the guys that believe they can be great. And the ones that do everything they can to try become great. The guys that settle for average can hit the road.

You call is loser's mentality. I call is explaining the premise of pro sports.

That's why there is greatness. If everyone was or could be great, then nobody would be. Everyone would be average. Because in pro sports, greatness is a RELATIVE condition.

But sure, everyone who plays pro sports should be great, or they don't care or don't try hard.

What the heck is it you guys have been watching all these years.

Everyone who isn't Michael Phelps or Mike Trout just doesn't try as hard.

Good lord...

It's not like it takes much to hit the gym and improve a short catch and shoot jumper. Or to learn a dropstep to the basket. At least for the guys committed to improving. I appreciate all of MR's attributes.

Again, i don't know what it is you guys think you're watching. Everyone who laces up a pair of athletic shoes is supposed to improve or they're lazy?

Wow...

Think you are arguing points no one has argued. MR is lazy? Every player will be great?
Btw. Did you just compare MR's shortcomings to MJ's?

Point made was that every player on a winning team must show improvement year after year. Every player on a winning team has to have the work ethic and drive to be great. They may not get there but that desire and work ethic needs to be high. That is "the premise of Pro Sports" But you are right, not all pros can be great. Some are lazy. Or do not have the drive, work ethic or ability to improve. Those are the ones winning teams get rid of. And the best way to judge that is by how they improve year over year. But are you saying FO's are not doing this to gauge long term commitment? Are you saying the Knicks do not/will not have these questions about MR? Do you think we should have kept guys like Frank because he was an excellent defender and it was okay that he did not show significant improvement? And again, I am not saying that MR is not working hard. Won't improve this year or should be let go if he does not get to LBJ's level. I am saying that he will have to show an upward trajectory to garnish a long term commitment. And yes, that means adding to his offensive skill set.

Let's break this down to the root.

A free throw is a constant. Every player shoots from the same spot, same distance, some conditions.

Easiest skill to practice in all of sports. Just need a ball and hoop.

And its free points, and at the end of the game, part of crucial strategy.

Yet at the highest level of play in the world, some guys can hit 9 of 10, some guys can only hit 5. And that fact transcends all levels of players. Some GREAT players have been below average and never significantly improved.

Let's cut through the platitudes.

Can you explain the simple fact? Why isn't free throw percentage high across the NBA amd why isn't consistent improvement the norm.

Why can guys shoot and shoot and shoot all off-season with professional instruction and it not translate to the season?