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Lonzo vs. Devonte vs. Sexton
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ramtour420
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7/27/2021  2:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/27/2021  3:01 PM
So it has came to this. Names like Lowry or Dinwiddie or Shroder or Rubio I am not considering as they either don't fit skill wise( don't need another non shooter or non playmaker at PG, Elf has showed us our glaring needs at the position) or they don't fit our timeline, given how we are not one piece away from championship. So

I am kind of torn and I cannot really make up my mind with any degree of certainty. So let's talk about how the three compare.

Sexton. He is probably the big fish out of the 3. His defensive drawbacks could be hidden by our team effort/design. Funnel drives towards our bigs for blocks. He may actually improve his D under Thibs like Randle and RJ have. On O he would be the #1 option and he would also make our bigs' life easier with an array of backdoor passes( Obi approves) and/or lobs. He is a one man offensive threat and that's what our coach likes anyway. 3 point shooting is improving.

Devonte Graham. Hello PnR. It's been too long without you. We desperately need it. Will have to tailor our offense to him. Makes our team attack very balanced. Would be a huge threat from the 3 land. Fits perfectly with his d. The only question is are we planning to change our offense so much? Can we? I don't know and that's the only thing that makes me unsure. Otherwise he is the perfect fit at PG.

Lonzo. Our team dynamic stays exactly the same but now we have a sniper at PG. That is unless we decide to run and go away from our old school defensive approach of less possessions= less points. Very Larry Brown like. But it works. So unless we change that whole deal I am afraid Lonzo can become a glorified Frank N. I wouldn't like that. That my concern with Lonzo.

So neither guy is perfect. Sexton is probably the hardest target to get but would also require the least adjustment from the coaching staff to incorporate in order to have the most impact. What do you guys think? Choose your champion 🏆!

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gradyandrew
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7/27/2021  3:13 PM
I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

TheGame
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7/27/2021  3:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/27/2021  3:35 PM
I would add Cameron Payne to the list as a cheaper option with room to grow. He is good at penetrating, has a decent shot, and just spent a year learning from Chris Paul. Definitely an upgrade over Payton without having to pay through the roof. Of the other three, my rank would be Graham (cheapest option), Sexton (still has potential to prove he is worth the max contract he wants), and then Lonzo (who I like but he really has not impressed in the last two games he had against the Knicks; and I wonder if the shooting improvement is for real). All four would be an upgrade over Payton, but only Sexton would probably be an upgrade over Rose. Personally, I would sign a guy like Payne for cheap, resign Rose to be backup, let Luca be the third PG, and then spend our draft picks on a wing or center.
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BRIGGS
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7/27/2021  3:43 PM
gradyandrew wrote:I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

You win in this league with high end talent players.

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gradyandrew
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7/27/2021  3:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

You win in this league with high end talent players.

One deal Cleveland would probably except is Luca for Love and Sexton. Cleveland could then wsive the trade exemption and enter free agency. Knicks could keep Frank, Robinson, Rose, and Gibson in free agency. I think that's the deal Cleveland is hunting.

fishmike
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7/27/2021  3:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

You win in this league with high end talent players.

and scorers who take over games and get clutch buckets... we dont have one big gun. Sexton would give us that. He's a good fit w/ RJ/Jules/Mitch much like Rose was
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gradyandrew
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7/27/2021  4:00 PM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

You win in this league with high end talent players.

and scorers who take over games and get clutch buckets... we dont have one big gun. Sexton would give us that. He's a good fit w/ RJ/Jules/Mitch much like Rose was

It's cool to say you want Sexton, remember Roger Furlong's line about Rihanna, but what kind of deal do you think Cleveland would accept? Kevin Knox and the two Dallas picks?

fishmike
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7/27/2021  4:50 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I think much of what Sexton does can be done by Randle, Rose, and especislly RJ- he is a short range whiz. He's a good 3 pt shooter but not a volume guy like Graham and Lonzo. Also, what is Cleveland'ps price?

Between Lonzo and Graham it comes down to price tag. I think we can get Graham cheaper and use the savings on someone else.

You win in this league with high end talent players.

and scorers who take over games and get clutch buckets... we dont have one big gun. Sexton would give us that. He's a good fit w/ RJ/Jules/Mitch much like Rose was

It's cool to say you want Sexton, remember Roger Furlong's line about Rihanna, but what kind of deal do you think Cleveland would accept? Kevin Knox and the two Dallas picks?

well of course it comes down to what the trade looks like but yes... sounds like that is the base of the package. I think Sexton is a legit piece that could help move the needle, but part of that depends on a good deal. If it costs your draft and cap space and future assets its just high a cost. I also value Obi and IQ higher than either of those FRPs we have but do think they are replacable and would swap out a pick and include one of those guys but beyond that it starts getting sketchy fast.

But then again we all thought the Celtics trading for Ray Allen made zero sense. Then the traded for KG next it was like ahhhhhhhh

Honestly I trust the FO. Cant wait to see how it plays out. I wont be disappointed if we just draft 3 guys we really like.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Chandler
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7/27/2021  5:10 PM
I honestly don't want any of these guys

the first two seem nice enough but not what we need or want to do

Sexton is too small and will cost too much. WHen the games get important he will get exposed on the defensive end, and i'm not sure how effective he'll be in those situations. BUT BUT BUT biggest issue is price. he wants top money and he's not in that tier

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ESOMKnicks
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7/27/2021  5:25 PM
Chandler wrote:I honestly don't want any of these guys

the first two seem nice enough but not what we need or want to do

Sexton is too small and will cost too much. WHen the games get important he will get exposed on the defensive end, and i'm not sure how effective he'll be in those situations. BUT BUT BUT biggest issue is price. he wants top money and he's not in that tier

Totally true. If Sexton is so freakin' good, then why is Cleveland trading him? Once he gets paid what he wants, Randle gets paid what he wants, and then it is RJ's turn shortly after, we will be locked into three max contracts. Does Randle-RJ-Sexton look like a championship core trio to anyone? Not to me. If this trio were so great, then how about Cleveland keeps Sexton and gets Randle and RJ from us in exchange for their first rounder this year plus Allen and Garland? I doubt they would do it.

MS
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7/27/2021  5:51 PM
I honestly think Lonzo is tremendously undervalued.

He’s a high level defender, rebounds well, elite passer in the half court and shoots 38% on 8 three point attempts a game. People like playing with him.

He can be a 3D wing he doesn’t have to be your point guard. If we are paying $20-22MM a year I don’t think it’s a terrible deal. New Orleans is awful, Griffin has made one bad move after another, he needs finishers and shooters. Ingram dominates to much of the ball and I think he comes here with an elite coach he can get comfortable and thrive.

If need be you can still go get Sexton and start the following Sexton, RJ, Lonzo, Randle, Mitch and have two picks, quick, Obi and Knox off the bench.

Jimbo5
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7/28/2021  12:27 AM
I think these 3 PGs have their strengths and weaknesses.

Honestly i think the number 1 characteristics Thibs is looking for a PG is the ability to penetrate and to be adept at draw and kick. I think both Lonzo and Graham dont drive enough for Thibs. I also see Lonzo as a better passing Frank.

Sexton might fit Thibs need for a driving point guard but he has a reputation of being selfish but that might be corrected since we can see games he had more than 10 dimes.

What about Kendrick Nunn? There have been no news about knicks having interest in him.

Nalod
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7/28/2021  6:44 AM
Clev has decided to go with garland as its point and thus does not want to lock into Sexton as its 2.
ITs not about what he has been but at 22 what he can be. Your still looking for potential.
We are not locked in if he lives up to a contract and can be traded if desired. Thus we would not be “married”. Same for Randle and RJ if need be.
At 22 he has demonstrated a talent within a dysfunctional team over his career. Berman is already ****ting on him as arrogant defiant player which he’d have to change up a bit on team that has a stronger culture with Thibs, Randle, RJ and his mentor Johnny Bryant. IF he can’t buy into this we pass.
DRose could very well go to Bulls. He had a great season with us but we can’t be stupid about what this team needs and we can only assume his limitations on minutes will continue. We wrung out a lot from him and it showed. Maybe he goes Vegan like CP3? LOL
gradyandrew
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7/28/2021  10:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2021  12:54 PM
Nalod wrote:Clev has decided to go with garland as its point and thus does not want to lock into Sexton as its 2.
ITs not about what he has been but at 22 what he can be. Your still looking for potential.
We are not locked in if he lives up to a contract and can be traded if desired. Thus we would not be “married”. Same for Randle and RJ if need be.
At 22 he has demonstrated a talent within a dysfunctional team over his career. Berman is already ****ting on him as arrogant defiant player which he’d have to change up a bit on team that has a stronger culture with Thibs, Randle, RJ and his mentor Johnny Bryant. IF he can’t buy into this we pass.
DRose could very well go to Bulls. He had a great season with us but we can’t be stupid about what this team needs and we can only assume his limitations on minutes will continue. We wrung out a lot from him and it showed. Maybe he goes Vegan like CP3? LOL

Triplethreat had a good post about how you will pay a keeper's price for Sexton, so you should make sure he fits. I don't see why we would want to trade him if he got better, so the idea of trading him later, at a loss, isn't appealing. I feel like Cleveland is going to want us to eat Love's contract:

Knicks: In K. Love, C Sexton 14 pick Out 19 pick 50 pick
Cleveland: In B. Bogandanovic J. Lamb 30 pick
Utah: Out B. Bogdanovic 30 pick In min salary player
Indiana Out J. Lamb 14 pick In 19 pick 50 pick

Indiana and Utah save about 30 million in potential tax payments. Knicks don't lose assets outside of space. Cleveland gets out of K. Love and gets decent value in return. Bojan makes 18 per over the next two seasons, Lamb has a 10 million expiring.

martin
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7/28/2021  12:38 PM
Good thread on Lonzo

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martin
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7/28/2021  12:38 PM
Thread for Sexton too

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Lonzo vs. Devonte vs. Sexton

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