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How good was David Lee?
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Knixkik
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3/5/2021  12:29 PM
I was a huge fan of him. Fun player to watch, easy to root for. He was a great rebounder and had a great touch around the basket. That tip in with .1 seconds on the clock in 2006 was something memorable. His skillset around the basket was something like D Sabonis now.

That being said, he also played negative defense and is generally associated with the darkest days of Knicks basketball thru no fault of his own.

But he was an NBA all-star on both coasts. Once with the Knicks then a few years later with the Warriors. I look at the All-star teams today, and have to believe there's no way he could possibly make it as an all-star today. Was David Lee better than we realize, or is the top end talent in the NBA just that much better today? Because you look at his numbers from those all-star appearance years and there's no way he's even in consideration for an all-star selection today. Thoughts?
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BigDaddyG
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3/5/2021  12:43 PM
He was OK. If he extends his range, he's a starter on most teams. Decent ball handler for a big, good passer. Not nearly as physical as Sabonis, so he would've definitely needed the threat of a three point shot.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knixkik
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3/5/2021  12:55 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:He was OK. If he extends his range, he's a starter on most teams. Decent ball handler for a big, good passer. Not nearly as physical as Sabonis, so he would've definitely needed the threat of a three point shot.

SO you believe despite making the all-star game on 2 different teams he would need to make adjustments just to be a starter on most teams today? Has the league talent gotten that much better in the last 8 years?
foosballnick
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3/5/2021  1:19 PM
Lee had some pretty good offensive performance between 09-14. He would definitely be starter quality on a bad/mediocre team. With much more focus on 3 point efficiency in the past several years - what might hurt him today is that as he was not known to be a defensive stopper - his overall value as a PF might be diminished if he was also a weak 3 point shooter.
StarksEwing1
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3/5/2021  1:32 PM
I always like Lee. For where we picked him he was a success I would say
BigDaddyG
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3/5/2021  1:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/5/2021  1:56 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:He was OK. If he extends his range, he's a starter on most teams. Decent ball handler for a big, good passer. Not nearly as physical as Sabonis, so he would've definitely needed the threat of a three point shot.

SO you believe despite making the all-star game on 2 different teams he would need to make adjustments just to be a starter on most teams today? Has the league talent gotten that much better in the last 8 years?

I wouldn't say more "talented," but the skill sets desired from most teams have changed. I believe for David to demand more minutes on the floor at his defensive level, he would need to bring more to the table on the offensive end. Also, another point in the physicality difference between Sabonis and Lee. I think it limits your ability to plug Lee in as a center for more than a few spot minutes.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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3/5/2021  1:58 PM
A Rookie we developed well as a Double double machine. Good memories from a dark period.
Was instrumental to GSW as he was teh first to sign as a free agent (sign and trade with knicks) under new Ownership there.
He was an off bench role player in there first chip but helped start the new era. I remember him because at 6-4 at the HS mcDonalds all america game he won the dunk contest. He grew in college to 6-9 and left ahead of the back to back Florida NCAA chips under Billy Donovan. The kid was born into money family but carved out his own success as an athlete and made some very good money himself! Married to now retired Carolyn Woznacki a very successful athlete in her own right. Hew as likable as a player for sure.
All star twice is not to be too casual about. he had a bad Hip injury then was supplanted in starting lineup by Draymond in their first chip. Gruber and Lacob credit him as important cog in the era. He has has a chip, two rings and was also all NBA (Third) team in 2013. Just 8 seasons ago. Its ok to give him props. Not for us to retire his jersey or a HOF guy but good memories!
TPercy
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3/5/2021  2:20 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:He was OK. If he extends his range, he's a starter on most teams. Decent ball handler for a big, good passer. Not nearly as physical as Sabonis, so he would've definitely needed the threat of a three point shot.

SO you believe despite making the all-star game on 2 different teams he would need to make adjustments just to be a starter on most teams today? Has the league talent gotten that much better in the last 8 years?

I wouldn't say more "talented," but the skill sets desired from most teams have changed. I believe for David to demand more minutes on the floor at his defensive level, he would need to bring more to the table on the offensive end. Also, another point in the physicality difference between Sabonis and Lee. I think it limits your ability to plug Lee in as a center for more than a few spot minutes.

So in other words more talented? John Collin's isn't touching an all star game and he is likely the better player. As is Jerami Grant, Hayward, etc... Most people in all star games from 5-6 years ago would struggle to make it now imo because we have a lot more talent in the league than years past.

The Future is Bright!
Welpee
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3/5/2021  2:23 PM
Good player given where he was drafted. Not a guy who move the needle for a team.
SupremeCommander
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3/5/2021  2:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/5/2021  2:47 PM
He was a success. He got an all star selection with GS in a stacked western conference. He has his flaws but could play. I think you could make the argument that we would have been better with Lee over Amare, now that we know how his play would deteriorate

I thought Lee had a really nice ability to play off the ball and never got enough recognition for that.. focus was usually on his rebounding and lack of defense

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
BigDaddyG
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3/5/2021  3:08 PM
TPercy wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:He was OK. If he extends his range, he's a starter on most teams. Decent ball handler for a big, good passer. Not nearly as physical as Sabonis, so he would've definitely needed the threat of a three point shot.

SO you believe despite making the all-star game on 2 different teams he would need to make adjustments just to be a starter on most teams today? Has the league talent gotten that much better in the last 8 years?

I wouldn't say more "talented," but the skill sets desired from most teams have changed. I believe for David to demand more minutes on the floor at his defensive level, he would need to bring more to the table on the offensive end. Also, another point in the physicality difference between Sabonis and Lee. I think it limits your ability to plug Lee in as a center for more than a few spot minutes.

So in other words more talented? John Collin's isn't touching an all star game and he is likely the better player. As is Jerami Grant, Hayward, etc... Most people in all star games from 5-6 years ago would struggle to make it now imo because we have a lot more talent in the league than years past.

I'm looking at their stats and I'm not sure I'd say John Collins is better than David Lee. There is more to the All-Star game selection than who is simply the best player. Mike Conley got snubbed again and there are plenty of Utah fans who believe he deserved the nod over Mitchell. I think Lee was also an injury replacement for that first All-Star nod. Also, the emergence of "superteams" over the years skews things. You could make the case that the only reason Grant got to do his thing is because he is on a talent starved team and there is no one else available to take the shots. I'm just not sure how much of a talent push there's been. There are players several years ago who were pushed out of the league who would be desired pieces if they came into the league today. There are players today who wouldn't touch an NBA floor several years ago. Just a lot of factors to consider.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knixkik
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3/5/2021  3:30 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:He was a success. He got an all star selection with GS in a stacked western conference. He has his flaws but could play. I think you could make the argument that we would have been better with Lee over Amare, now that we know how his play would deteriorate

I thought Lee had a really nice ability to play off the ball and never got enough recognition for that.. focus was usually on his rebounding and lack of defense

Agreed. Lee would have been a better fit next to Melo. But obviously Amare had the star recognition that jump started the rebuild. It really was too bad Lee is associated with that terrible Knicks era. He was a good player and also was the prerequisite to that big Golden State run.
nychamp
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3/5/2021  5:30 PM
I despised Lee. Top 3 overrated Knick of all time if not #1. Defense was shameful and he never cared to make it better. Opponents regularly salivated when seeing Lee guarding them, and proceeded to torch him at a high %. Even average offensive players scored at will vs. him. Might have been literally the worst on-ball post defender in the league and hurt his team considering he played lots of minutes. His above average offensive game (even sans jumpshot) and excellent rebounding didn't lead to wins. Big net negative for me.
I recognize my own bias to really hate on players who suck defensively, so I'm harsher than most re: Lee. (Also why I can't see Knox being any good without radical changes). But I still believe overall his defense was more of a liability than his offense was an asset. Maybe he was a good guy, but I don't really care about that.
Nalod
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3/5/2021  5:53 PM
David lee spent time as our center. That he was not.
His defense was poor at times because he could not afford to sit him if in foul trouble.
He was undersized as center!!!
BRIGGS
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3/5/2021  6:54 PM
David lee was the king!

Was a rebounding machine!

RIP Crushalot😞
smackeddog
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3/6/2021  4:31 AM
We used to call him Avid Lee
GustavBahler
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3/6/2021  10:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2021  11:03 AM
Lee had serious hops his rookie year. Got hurt, lost that explosiveness.

As other posters have pointed out, good post player, passer.

Also a 1st rate stat padder. Would play "jazzhands" D, drop back on his defender so he could grab the rebound. Lots of rebounds when both teams are headed to the opposing basket. Kind of stuff I dont imagine shows up in the stat sheet.

Believe it helped him land that 100+ mill contract.

Near the end of his career, and after some serious injuries, Lee started playing respectable D. Helped GS win a chip'.

David Lee made himself generational wealth, married a seriously cute tennis star. won a championship ring. Living a life most wouldnt mind having.

Some of us might have approached the game differently, but damn look at the results.
Knixkik
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3/6/2021  12:50 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Lee had serious hops his rookie year. Got hurt, lost that explosiveness.

As other posters have pointed out, good post player, passer.

Also a 1st rate stat padder. Would play "jazzhands" D, drop back on his defender so he could grab the rebound. Lots of rebounds when both teams are headed to the opposing basket. Kind of stuff I dont imagine shows up in the stat sheet.

Believe it helped him land that 100+ mill contract.

Near the end of his career, and after some serious injuries, Lee started playing respectable D. Helped GS win a chip'.

David Lee made himself generational wealth, married a seriously cute tennis star. won a championship ring. Living a life most wouldnt mind having.

Some of us might have approached the game differently, but damn look at the results.

Yeah things turned out well for him. On a side note, didn’t he come from money? Wasn’t his grandfather the inventor of some big things ? I am not really sure but I remember something like that.
Nalod
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3/6/2021  1:21 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Lee had serious hops his rookie year. Got hurt, lost that explosiveness.

As other posters have pointed out, good post player, passer.

Also a 1st rate stat padder. Would play "jazzhands" D, drop back on his defender so he could grab the rebound. Lots of rebounds when both teams are headed to the opposing basket. Kind of stuff I dont imagine shows up in the stat sheet.

Believe it helped him land that 100+ mill contract.

Near the end of his career, and after some serious injuries, Lee started playing respectable D. Helped GS win a chip'.

David Lee made himself generational wealth, married a seriously cute tennis star. won a championship ring. Living a life most wouldnt mind having.

Some of us might have approached the game differently, but damn look at the results.

Yeah things turned out well for him. On a side note, didn’t he come from money? Wasn’t his grandfather the inventor of some big things ? I am not really sure but I remember something like that.

Company was LeeRowan that was started by his grandfather. shelving, wire shelving, brackets.....Big company and Newell bought them out.

Don’t matter what we think of David Lee. His career speaks for itself.
BigDaddyG
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3/6/2021  1:28 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Lee had serious hops his rookie year. Got hurt, lost that explosiveness.

Lee did have nice hops. But I must admit, his win in the McDonald's All-American slam dunk contest was suspect.
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/26/11103690/david-lee-mavericks-investigation-mcdonalds-all-american-dunk-contest-win
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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