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Nalod
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10/28/2004  8:53 AM

I have hated Redsox teams for decades. I admire Shilling, but am no fan. Pedro is a funny funny guy, he grows on ya.

For some reason I was happy to see Boston win. The Yankees over history have made it look easy, but we all know winning championships is anything but.

We traded Walt Frazier in 1977 to the Cleveland Cavs. We have never recoverd since.

It will be 32 years since we last one a title. The Celtics were our Daddy for many many years. Maybe now the curse gods will be easy on us now that the Sawx have what they wanted!

Winning is not easy. But I need just one more time!
AUTOADVERT
martin
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10/28/2004  9:27 AM
mini-me curse.
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fishmike
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10/28/2004  9:48 AM
the curse of the bambino was supposed to last 100 years. Therefore its clear there was no curse after all... just an excuse for 86 years of bad baseball
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kwazimodal
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10/28/2004  10:17 AM
Id say corporate ownership of the Knicks for the last 30 plus years has been our curse.It wasnt always that way.When Alan Cohen was made the CEO of the Madison Square Garden corp in 1974 he said that his first duty was to his shareholders and championships came second(sound familiar?).That attitude has been more of a curse than anything.
lrluis
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10/28/2004  10:46 AM
When Alan Cohen was made the CEO of the Madison Square Garden corp in 1974 he said that his first duty was to his shareholders and championships came second(sound familiar?).

Sounds very familiar, but in a good way. Unless one is sole owner of a team, one is also accountable to the other owners. The firm's CEO and its officers are agents of the Board of Directors and its Chairman. The Board members, in turn, are proxies of the firm's stakeholders: shareholders and lenders.

That is not to say that championships or play-offs won't bring in the money, which is why we invest in the first place, right? In fact, that is the goal. More fans, more gate receipts. I don't know why it is implied that Alan Cohen's two priorities are in conflict with each other.
Kwazimodal
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10/28/2004  11:04 AM
Posted by lrluis:
When Alan Cohen was made the CEO of the Madison Square Garden corp in 1974 he said that his first duty was to his shareholders and championships came second(sound familiar?).

Sounds very familiar, but in a good way. Unless one is sole owner of a team, one is also accountable to the other owners. The firm's CEO and its officers are agents of the Board of Directors and its Chairman. The Board members, in turn, are proxies of the firm's stakeholders: shareholders and lenders.

That is not to say that championships or play-offs won't bring in the money, which is why we invest in the first place, right? In fact, that is the goal. More fans, more gate receipts. I don't know why it is implied that Alan Cohen's two priorities are in conflict with each other.

Sorry,but that doesnt make any sense.Being more concerned with profits than championships is the main reason we havent won since 1973.The Knicks have been unwilling to rebuild in the last 30ys for the most part and every year they operate with goal of making the playoffs consistently.Not to win it all.How can that be good for the fans?

An individual owner will be more patient even if it means being out of the playoffs for a few seasons.Corporations,especially American ones cant see past the next quarter.The board of directors want a CEO who is more interested in profits and as long as he is doing that his job is secure(Layden was an aberration).But the fans get the short end of the stick.Individual owners,good ones are passionate about bringing a championship to their city.Thats why there hasnt been a championship won by a corporation being the principal owner in the NBA or most other sports that I can think of in a long while and if they have they are the exception.

crzymdups
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10/28/2004  11:45 AM
Posted by lrluis:
When Alan Cohen was made the CEO of the Madison Square Garden corp in 1974 he said that his first duty was to his shareholders and championships came second(sound familiar?).

Sounds very familiar, but in a good way. Unless one is sole owner of a team, one is also accountable to the other owners. The firm's CEO and its officers are agents of the Board of Directors and its Chairman. The Board members, in turn, are proxies of the firm's stakeholders: shareholders and lenders.

That is not to say that championships or play-offs won't bring in the money, which is why we invest in the first place, right? In fact, that is the goal. More fans, more gate receipts. I don't know why it is implied that Alan Cohen's two priorities are in conflict with each other.


Wait. Are you on the board or something? Holy crap.
¿ △ ?
tkf
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10/28/2004  12:05 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the curse of the bambino was supposed to last 100 years. Therefore its clear there was no curse after all... just an excuse for 86 years of bad baseball

how true, and as a diehard yankee fan, I laugh at how boston thinks that one championship makes up for 86 years of futility, to put things in perspective, this is just a WS win, it does not erase anything, it doesn't erase the fact that the yanks have owned this team, it doesn't erase the fact that the yanks over the past 8 years have won 4 WS titles including 3 in a row, and to put things in perspective, the florida marlins have won 2 titles over the past 8 years, that is twice what boston has won, so while boston fans go on their druken stupor trying to down the yankees, I laugh at their foolishness, we have been there and done that 4 times in the last 8 years.... hey the sun does shine on a dogs azz every now and then...

hopefully the next dog in line is the NY knicks..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
lrluis
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10/28/2004  12:07 PM
I'm just defending big business (I'm a business consultant to the Fortune 1000). But here's my 2nd take: the average NBA team breaks even in the regular season. They make profits in the playoffs. Championships are a bonus. Which investor wouldn't want to win a championship while balancing solvency for the the long-term?

IF I had A LOT of money though (and that's never going to happen), I wouldn't put it on the Bobcats, etc. I would buy into a minor league baseball team. The case studies show they are very profitable for their owners---championship or no championship.
fishmike
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10/28/2004  12:28 PM
Championships are a bonus. Which investor wouldn't want to win a championship while balancing solvency for the the long-term?
they arent a bonus... they should be the single goal.

What investor is going to accept immediate losses on the potential of a future title? None. Just do the math. If the Knicks make the 2nd round every year they gross the same amount if they rebuild for 3 years and a have a 3 year playoff run that results in one title. The later isnt even guarenteed.

The Ewing Knicks had their 400 sell outs, had their 2nd round every year and the garden was a cash cow. Then the short sightedness of corporate America strikes again. Its bette to give Houston and Sprewell max contracts and trade for someone like McDyess then accept a temporary loss in revenue while you rebuild assests. Terrible management.. plain and simple.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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10/28/2004  12:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Championships are a bonus. Which investor wouldn't want to win a championship while balancing solvency for the the long-term?
they arent a bonus... they should be the single goal.

What investor is going to accept immediate losses on the potential of a future title? None. Just do the math. If the Knicks make the 2nd round every year they gross the same amount if they rebuild for 3 years and a have a 3 year playoff run that results in one title. The later isnt even guarenteed.

The Ewing Knicks had their 400 sell outs, had their 2nd round every year and the garden was a cash cow. Then the short sightedness of corporate America strikes again. Its bette to give Houston and Sprewell max contracts and trade for someone like McDyess then accept a temporary loss in revenue while you rebuild assests. Terrible management.. plain and simple.

Amen.
¿ △ ?
Rich
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10/28/2004  5:20 PM
By and large, the way the Knicks have been run over the last 30 years proves that inept management trumps any curse (mini or not), unless you want to argue that the no foul call on Charles Smith v. the Bulls, and/or Starks's inept shooting in Game 7 vs. the Rockets were the result of a curse.
BRIGGS
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10/28/2004  6:49 PM
a charles smith dunk, john starks hits a few more js in game 6 a missed patrick ewing finger role, a healthy ewing heck we couldve won it 2 or more times.

it wasnt lousy management in the 90s we got riley we always stocked our frontcourt. we tried to retool in 94-95 with houston childs and 3 number 1 picks-we quickly moved nelson out for van gundy even though he had a winning record

we developed john starks anthony mason

we always tried to get that extra vet piece--no we were very well run in the 90s--they knew the bread and butter always started with the frontcourt

we were very unlucky beyond the few things i posted there doc rivers blowing out his knee blackmon just started to stink when we acquired him i could go on. we had a great 10 year run, nothing to be ashamed about.

the problem is after you go on a run like that, its almost pivotal to stink for a year or two[or do what the pacers did and raid other teams for young undervalued players] we continued to try to roll it over and i really do not know where we are at. i believe a good team is built front to back. we are built back to front.


i will say for the most part since i can remember we were a TERRIBLE drafting team with very few exceptions i.e rod strickland[who we traded for a washed up cheeks] mark jackson charlie ward gerald wilkins and that was pretty much it. we took our scouting to lightly and that also hurt us

I think it s important to try to improve the team each year through the drafting process im glad ariza has made a solid stake on a spot.


this thing need to be shuttered after we went to the championship from seed 8. thats where POOR POOR management really showed.


now isiah has built this team front to back + has spent a TON of money doing so---i hope it works out i really believe if this doesnt work in the next two years--we need to really consider a HUGE transitional makeover
RIP Crushalot😞
MaTT4281
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10/28/2004  6:56 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the curse of the bambino was supposed to last 100 years. Therefore its clear there was no curse after all... just an excuse for 86 years of bad baseball

What are you talking about, it's always been the curse. But now since its gone, Boston is the team to beat. 2 championships in 86 years...unstopable!

It is somewhat of a relief, no more excuses. But god, Boston fans are so annoying! I was waiting for Boston to be up 3-0 in the WS and then lose it to St. Louis. That would have made me very happy.

But now enough of Baseball, Boston could win the WS for the next decade, and that would be fine if with me if these Knicks can be contending. Very bright future with this franchise, can't wait.
Rich
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10/28/2004  7:03 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

a charles smith dunk, john starks hits a few more js in game 6 a missed patrick ewing finger role, a healthy ewing heck we couldve won it 2 or more times.

it wasnt lousy management in the 90s we got riley we always stocked our frontcourt. we tried to retool in 94-95 with houston childs and 3 number 1 picks-we quickly moved nelson out for van gundy even though he had a winning record

we developed john starks anthony mason

we always tried to get that extra vet piece--no we were very well run in the 90s--they knew the bread and butter always started with the frontcourt

we were very unlucky beyond the few things i posted there doc rivers blowing out his knee blackmon just started to stink when we acquired him i could go on. we had a great 10 year run, nothing to be ashamed about.

the problem is after you go on a run like that, its almost pivotal to stink for a year or two[or do what the pacers did and raid other teams for young undervalued players] we continued to try to roll it over and i really do not know where we are at. i believe a good team is built front to back. we are built back to front.


i will say for the most part since i can remember we were a TERRIBLE drafting team with very few exceptions i.e rod strickland[who we traded for a washed up cheeks] mark jackson charlie ward gerald wilkins and that was pretty much it. we took our scouting to lightly and that also hurt us

I think it s important to try to improve the team each year through the drafting process im glad ariza has made a solid stake on a spot.


this thing need to be shuttered after we went to the championship from seed 8. thats where POOR POOR management really showed.


now isiah has built this team front to back + has spent a TON of money doing so---i hope it works out i really believe if this doesnt work in the next two years--we need to really consider a HUGE transitional makeover

The lousy management was the inability to get a bonafide complimentary star for Ewing to play with.
PhilinLA
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10/28/2004  8:20 PM
Exactly. They traded away both of the dynamic PG options they had in the Ewing era and tried to get by with old slow guys like Derek Harper where they really neeed a player.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Kwazimodal
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10/28/2004  9:01 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:

Exactly. They traded away both of the dynamic PG options they had in the Ewing era and tried to get by with old slow guys like Derek Harper where they really neeed a player.

Sorry dude but you dont know what the F you are talking about.Did you even watch Derek Harper as a Knick? In the finals even?
our Jr Curse

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