TheGame wrote:If Thibbs fully unleashed Quickley and gave him 35 minute a game, this kid actually could make a run at rookie of the year. I don’t think Thibbs is going to do that, and I personally like bring Quickley along slowly in that it: 1) keeps tank commander Payton fulfilling his role; 2) Quickley really is not ready to run a team full time yet as there are plenty of nuisances to the game that he has yet to fully understand (which is expected); and 3) having him as a weapon off the bench gives us something to fall back on when the starters aren’t producing. But it is amazing that this kid is this good at the 25th pick. This kid should have gone top 14 at worst.

He fell because narrative. He played off ball Maxey so everyone thought he would be a small SG. Especially when he was mediocre as a PG his Freshman year.

So they ignored the fact he had top 5 shooting in the combine, and that in high school he was a top tier pg and was recruited to Kentucky for the pg position. There were a lot of signs he would be ok as a PG. I think if there had been a normal season we would have seen his stock rise.

He sort of like Mitch, where in hindsight you look at their record in HS and it shows their NBA potential.

KnickDanger wrote:Halliburton had a mediocre game last night. Although he was my preference when it came time to pick, I will hold for on his Hall of Fame nomination. Of the other guys people were playing up, Deni is playing okay, Vassel and Nesmith and Kira haven’t done much if anything.

I don’t think anyone is angry about Quickley. Everyone wants to see Obi do better. Of course he isn’t getting the minutes but that’s what people want.

Quickley would be a strong candidate for ROY if he averaged 24+mpg. He'd obviously need to improve his FG + 3pt percentages to overcome Haliburton's current numbers. I think many of us will be keeping tabs on Haliburton's progress, though a strong career for Quickley (and Obi) would negate that.

I'm mostly anxious to see what Obi can do. As he works his way back, I'm curious if the Knicks will start calling his number on the 2nd team. Randle's playing a lot of minutes and getting high usage, so all that's left for Obi right now are garbage/transition points and 3's. I kind of would like to see some of the same things for Obi and Knox - opportunities to get them involved early with some easy buckets near the basket before just lining them up at the 3pt line.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:OBI controls our narrative with his RoY bit.
Quick today was part of the problem as well as he did play.
The kid is learning. Really Obi had a few nice moments too.
The dim cheers for RJ is a bit puzzling. The kid was really our anchor today.
Shame most of you don’t see it.

One of my basketball fandom shortcomings is that I am looking for a hero. Not a solid role player. Not a solid rotation guy. I'm looking for Derek Jeter even though Jeff Nelson was pretty important to those championship teams.

I see a guy like Quickley and I am reminded of that Linsanity spark -- which makes it fun to watch. So, what do I do? I look for reasons to get IQ into the game. Logical arguments. Honestly, that is all this is for me. Watch how I spin this.

1) Barrett is good but needs floor space to work his game.
2) The lineup of Elf Barrett Bullock Randle Robinson doesn't have enough consistent shooters tp spread the floor.
3) Barrett and Randle are really good - we should work around their shooting.
4) Robinson is a C...its ok if he can't shoot. Bullock can kind of shoot.
5) Elf is a terrible shooter.
6) IQ is a great shooter
7) IQ should replace Elf cause Barrett isn't a good enough shooter to play next to Elf.

Its a logical argument solely to create an opportunity to see if IQ can re-create Linsanity cause I want a hero.

If you really break down all of these criticisms of Elf and Barrett, its more about Quickley than it is about them. I want to believe. Quickley lets me have both a chance at Quick-sanity and a higher ceiling for Barrett.

I agree, I do the same thing. I badly want Barrett to be a franchise player to build around. That's still an unknown. And I want to believe that Quickley just shocked everyone and has star upside as well. But regardless of all that, the one thing that is absolutely true is that Barrett and Quickley are a good pairing and Quickley in particular raises the ceiling of Barrett and maximizes whatever star upside he has. Quickley was an incredible find.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:OBI controls our narrative with his RoY bit.
Quick today was part of the problem as well as he did play.
The kid is learning. Really Obi had a few nice moments too.
The dim cheers for RJ is a bit puzzling. The kid was really our anchor today.
Shame most of you don’t see it.

One of my basketball fandom shortcomings is that I am looking for a hero. Not a solid role player. Not a solid rotation guy. I'm looking for Derek Jeter even though Jeff Nelson was pretty important to those championship teams.

I see a guy like Quickley and I am reminded of that Linsanity spark -- which makes it fun to watch. So, what do I do? I look for reasons to get IQ into the game. Logical arguments. Honestly, that is all this is for me. Watch how I spin this.

1) Barrett is good but needs floor space to work his game.
2) The lineup of Elf Barrett Bullock Randle Robinson doesn't have enough consistent shooters tp spread the floor.
3) Barrett and Randle are really good - we should work around their shooting.
4) Robinson is a C...its ok if he can't shoot. Bullock can kind of shoot.
5) Elf is a terrible shooter.
6) IQ is a great shooter
7) IQ should replace Elf cause Barrett isn't a good enough shooter to play next to Elf.

Its a logical argument solely to create an opportunity to see if IQ can re-create Linsanity cause I want a hero.

If you really break down all of these criticisms of Elf and Barrett, its more about Quickley than it is about them. I want to believe. Quickley lets me have both a chance at Quick-sanity and a higher ceiling for Barrett.

I here you but its not all spin. The reason why most of us do not like Payton is because he represents years of mediocre to below average pg's we've seen at MSG. From Tony Douglas, to Jarett Jack to Ramon Sessions...the list goes on and on. Fringe pg's signed to 1 year deals that are seemingly just in the way. Similar to Jack and Sessions, Payton is what he is at this point in his career; he's a journeyman. A bench player on a really good team and maybe a fringe starter on a team that is most likely not good enough to make the playoffs...What makes it worse, is that Payton is on a 1 year deal worth 5 million so obviously the front office don't think he's a part of the future either.

What adds gasoline to burning rage (OK, maybe its not that deep, just wanted to play with the words ) lot of us have for Payton is he is blocking a potential future pg. Similar to Jack and Sessions taking valuable development minutes from Frank, we see Payton doing the same to Quickley. Of course, there is no guarantee that Quick is good enough to be a starting point guard in this league, but Knick fans are starved for one, so what's the point in waiting when we've been garbage for years? Lets find out now! Aint we supposed to be in the developmental stages of our growth anyway? Why not allow Quick to play the 4th quarter yesterday even-though the Magic were mounting a comeback? It would have been a great learning experience for Quick, having to deal with actual NBA intense 4th quarter game play. So what if we lost, or if Quick struggled, it would have been better for him down the road. What if he excelled?

As far as your other points, I don't think its spin to wonder about the spacing or lack there-of between Payton, Randle and RJ. Its a legit concern if we are thinking about this team next year, and the years after that and so-on....For me this has nothing to do with Linsanity, but everything to do with the need for an actual point guard that we can rely on for years. Linsanity crashed and burned after several weeks, I'm looking for Mark Jackson....Stability.

Its the summ of the parts. 20 year RJ is a work in progress. SO is Zion BTW.
Fans need not know where it ends but just have some objectivity to what it is, and what it can be.
Obi has yet to play enough to even find his pace and feel the game at this level. Scratching the surface.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Elf razzle dazzle then dunk was a thing of beauty........
When Knox hits his shots, good things happen.
when Quick hits his.......
If we look for hero, then there must be a villain?

Its the summ of the parts. 20 year RJ is a work in progress. SO is Zion BTW.
Fans need not know where it ends but just have some objectivity to what it is, and what it can be.
Obi has yet to play enough to even find his pace and feel the game at this level. Scratching the surface.

For what it's worth, RJ is way further along defensively than Zion.

I don't watch NOP at all and am wondering why Zion has only shot 2 3pointers all season? and he is 0-2

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:Elf razzle dazzle then dunk was a thing of beauty........
When Knox hits his shots, good things happen.
when Quick hits his.......
If we look for hero, then there must be a villain?

Its the summ of the parts. 20 year RJ is a work in progress. SO is Zion BTW.
Fans need not know where it ends but just have some objectivity to what it is, and what it can be.
Obi has yet to play enough to even find his pace and feel the game at this level. Scratching the surface.

That Elf dunk shut me up. Honestly, I didn't realize he had that. Still don't think he fits well in a lineup with Barrett and Randle, but would love to see more of that...

At 4.7mil a year he fits. He is not the solution, he is filler. He is hamburger helper until we draft better.
He is solid/avg. We control Randles contract this year and next. Not going to worry about him or anyone yet. Way too many picks and yoots developing in process. 15 games in. Thats all we at. Maybe the safe bet to keep him long term and perhaps let Frank walk or trade before the deadline. Dennis seemingly is forgotten by Thibs.