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Bonn1997
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10/20/2004  10:15 AM
I know it's early, but I figured we could still get a good discussion going. So, with the game on the line, what players do you want on the court (assuming Houston is still injured)?

I'd go with
C: Kurt Thomas
PF: Mike Sweetney
SF: Tim Thomas
SG: Jamal Crawford
PG: Stephon Marbury
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Marv
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10/20/2004  10:25 AM
Good question. Believe it or not, I'd go with Nazr at C because i already saw him last year have some nice finishes at ends of games, off out-of-bounds, etc. i'm not sure about PF - I like KT's mid jumper and scrappiness, but want Sweets on the boards. I guess I'd go with either there.
diderotn
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10/20/2004  10:30 AM
I don't like Kurt as Center. It is a recipe for disaster.
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Bonn1997
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10/20/2004  10:36 AM
Posted by diderotn:

I don't like Kurt as Center. It is a recipe for disaster.
He's only one inch shorter and fifteen pounds lighter than Nazy and he's a much better player on both ends of the court. The only reason we couldn't get away with Kurt starting at C on Layden's teams was that we had a short, obese starting PF (Spoon) and a 6'5" SF averaging 3.9 rbs in 40 mpg. We have much better size at SF and PF now. Like many teams, we can get away with a good defensive PF playing the C position.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 10/20/2004 10:38:07]
nykdunk
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10/20/2004  10:42 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by diderotn:

I don't like Kurt as Center. It is a recipe for disaster.
He's only one inch shorter and fifteen pounds lighter than Nazy, but he's a much better player on both ends of the court. The only reason we couldn't get away with Kurt starting at C on Layden's teams was that we had a short, obese starting PF (Spoon) and a 6'5" SF averaging 3.9 rbs in 40 mpg. We have much better size at SF and PF now. Like many teams, we can get away with a good defensive PF playing the C position.

But that 6'5 starting SF was replaced by a SF who has similar rebounding numbers! Not that I disagree. I think Sweetney can definitely make up for the lack of rebounding from the C and SF positions.
Bonn1997
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10/20/2004  10:47 AM
Posted by NYKDUNK:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by diderotn:

I don't like Kurt as Center. It is a recipe for disaster.
He's only one inch shorter and fifteen pounds lighter than Nazy, but he's a much better player on both ends of the court. The only reason we couldn't get away with Kurt starting at C on Layden's teams was that we had a short, obese starting PF (Spoon) and a 6'5" SF averaging 3.9 rbs in 40 mpg. We have much better size at SF and PF now. Like many teams, we can get away with a good defensive PF playing the C position.

But that 6'5 starting SF was replaced by a SF who has similar rebounding numbers! Not that I disagree. I think Sweetney can definitely make up for the lack of rebounding from the C and SF positions.
No, 4 rbs in 40 mpg is not similar to 5 rbs in 30 mpg. TT is not a good rebounder *for his size*, but he's almost twice as effective a rebounder as Sprewell was in his last season here as an SF.
nykdunk
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10/20/2004  10:52 AM
I do agree that that starting lineup is probably the best we can come up with. But I'm just pointing out it still has a lot of flaws.
Nalod
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10/20/2004  11:01 AM
I think Kurt and Sweets get good minutes, but Im concerned with what you bring in to sub. I like Baker starting, and kurt coming off the bench to either the c or PF depending on circumstances.

Gives us more flex. I still see kurt getting major minutes.

With 3 centers on the roster, Using Kurt as starting c would make it 4. It leaves us very thin at PF after sweets.

If Bruno can log min, then Nazr can be traded. I also wonder if there is anything behind TT playing power forward. If he gets closer to the glass, can he get more rebounds? Is trevor the real deal and take min from TT? TT amd Az on the floor together with Craw and Marbs? Supersonic!

Mohammad and TT on the floor at one time: Nazy and Gazy!
Kwazimodal
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10/20/2004  11:07 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I know it's early, but I figured we could still get a good discussion going. So, with the game on the line, what players do you want on the court (assuming Houston is still injured)?

I'd go with
C: Kurt Thomas
PF: Mike Sweetney
SF: Tim Thomas
SG: Jamal Crawford
PG: Stephon Marbury

I agree,unless Baker or Nazr show something before starting day.KT has proven that he can play C and it allows Sweetney to get more PT.If Ariza is the real deal I hope that he gets on the floor not long after TT starts.
diderotn
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10/20/2004  11:19 AM
For those of you who watched the game, was Marburry and Crawf on the court when Sundov was our Center? If so, how was the flow of the game???? did they go to him inside?
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Bonn1997
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10/20/2004  11:25 AM
Posted by Nalod:

I think Kurt and Sweets get good minutes, but Im concerned with what you bring in to sub. I like Baker starting, and kurt coming off the bench to either the c or PF depending on circumstances.

Gives us more flex. I still see kurt getting major minutes.

With 3 centers on the roster, Using Kurt as starting c would make it 4. It leaves us very thin at PF after sweets.
Sweetney would be the starting PF; Baker would be the backup PF (his natural position anyway). Kurt would be the starting C with Nazy as his backup. Sundov gets garbage minutes.
TMS
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10/20/2004  11:50 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I know it's early, but I figured we could still get a good discussion going. So, with the game on the line, what players do you want on the court (assuming Houston is still injured)?

I'd go with
C: Kurt Thomas
PF: Mike Sweetney
SF: Tim Thomas
SG: Jamal Crawford
PG: Stephon Marbury

that's the lineup i'd go with in crunchtime if Houston was still out
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BigSm00th
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10/20/2004  12:09 PM
Interesting point TMS, since I agree with you. I'm not sure though, if Houston comes back, who do you take out? It could be a problem.

I think KT and Sweetney in the frontcourt is definitely the best bet. KT is the best defender of big men and he's better suited to guard bigger guys, vs. more athletic and versatile players (look at his career numbers head to head vs. KMart or Antoine Walker). Then, as someone said, you get Baker at his natural PF off the bench and Nazr as a backup C, which he is.

I don't really think Spree or TT are good rebounders. Last year TT averaged 4 boards in 32 minutes. In his last year with NY Spree averaged 4.5 boards in 39 minutes. Saying TT is almost double the rebounder Spree is is garbage.
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Bonn1997
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10/20/2004  12:28 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Interesting point TMS, since I agree with you. I'm not sure though, if Houston comes back, who do you take out? It could be a problem.

I think KT and Sweetney in the frontcourt is definitely the best bet. KT is the best defender of big men and he's better suited to guard bigger guys, vs. more athletic and versatile players (look at his career numbers head to head vs. KMart or Antoine Walker). Then, as someone said, you get Baker at his natural PF off the bench and Nazr as a backup C, which he is.

I don't really think Spree or TT are good rebounders. Last year TT averaged 4 boards in 32 minutes. In his last year with NY Spree averaged 4.5 boards in 39 minutes. Saying TT is almost double the rebounder Spree is is garbage.
No, your stats are garbage. Spree in his last year in NY averaged 3.9 Rbs in 39 mpg. The previous year it was 3.7 Rbs in 40 mpg. Last year TT averaged 4.8 rbs in 31 mpg. I'm against the idea of using per 48 min stats, but if you give TT an extra 9 minutes, it's safe to say he'll get at least another rebound (probably between 1 and 1.5). So, if the minutes are the same, you're probably looking at around 6 RPG vs 3.8

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 10/20/2004 12:29:08]
TMS
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10/20/2004  12:49 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Interesting point TMS, since I agree with you. I'm not sure though, if Houston comes back, who do you take out? It could be a problem.

I think KT and Sweetney in the frontcourt is definitely the best bet. KT is the best defender of big men and he's better suited to guard bigger guys, vs. more athletic and versatile players (look at his career numbers head to head vs. KMart or Antoine Walker). Then, as someone said, you get Baker at his natural PF off the bench and Nazr as a backup C, which he is.

I don't really think Spree or TT are good rebounders. Last year TT averaged 4 boards in 32 minutes. In his last year with NY Spree averaged 4.5 boards in 39 minutes. Saying TT is almost double the rebounder Spree is is garbage.

depending on which one were shooting well that game, i'd have them in the game in crunchtime...Crawford provides better defense & athleticism, but Houston is much more consistent on his shot...still, when Crawford gets it going, he can be deadly, & he can create his own shot alot better than Houston can, but is prone to make dumb decisions w/the ball at times too...it's a tough call...like i said, it would probably depend on how each one was playing that particular game for me to pick 1 over the other...i might even take TT out & have Houston play the SF at times, depending on how TT was playing that game as well, or put TT at PF & run a smaller team...

it would change from game to game, but for the most part, i think the lineup Bonn posted is the general rotation i'd go w/if Houston weren't available.
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fishmike
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10/20/2004  12:54 PM
I dont think there is a best 5. We have some nice versatility and can make some subs based on needs. If we need stops we can play Penny and Ariza, if we need scoring go with Houston and TT. The hardest thing for us to do will be to defend big teams in the 4th qtrs... teams like SA, Indy, Det.
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diderotn
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10/20/2004  1:56 PM
I am going to disagree with you again, OUr 5 bests are:
Marburry, Crawf, TT, Sweetney, and Vinny if healthy.

Posted by fishmike:

I dont think there is a best 5. We have some nice versatility and can make some subs based on needs. If we need stops we can play Penny and Ariza, if we need scoring go with Houston and TT. The hardest thing for us to do will be to defend big teams in the 4th qtrs... teams like SA, Indy, Det.
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BigSm00th
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10/20/2004  4:20 PM
What has given you any indication Baker is better than KT? KT fits better in the offense, is a better defender and rebounder, and can stay on the court for more than a few minutes without getting tired.

I think the unit that'll be in the game in the playoffs is Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, KT.
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metra
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10/20/2004  4:23 PM
Best 5 against a team that doesnt have a top offensive C:

PG: Marb
SG: Craw
SF: H20
PF: Sweets
C: Kurt

H20 > TT any day, especially when a guy like Craw makes up for our "lack of athleticism," meaning TT's insane (whining) skills can be put on the bench.

Best 5 with a team that has an offensive C:

Good luck with this one, Lenny.
daddynel
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10/20/2004  6:53 PM
i'm with fish. it all depends on the game, there will be certain games we can play kt at center, there will be games that if we try that, he'll get eaten up. same thing w/houston.
example: we might be able to get away w/playing houston at the 3 against miami{r.butler}, but not against cleveland{l.james}.
example: k.t. can play pf against miami{u.haslem}, but not against denver{k.mart}<-obviously. maybe this is the reason zeke wants to play tt at pf at times.
our advantage is our depth, and we need to play to our strengths. unfortunately our strength is not at center, and were athleticly deprived at pf.
question: why did'nt we pick up chris anderson? WHY?
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