I know Isaiah's is praised for most of the moves he has made. However, trading Keith Van Horn for Tim Thomas was a dumb move. It was just really stupid. Tim Thomas is not someone you could give the ball two with the game winding down and ask him to create something for himself or others and as much as we jeered Horn's game he is much better than fugazy. Van Horn's not just better in career averages but also in the style he plays. You drive and kick to Van Horn and he would either hit the three or drive in to lay the ball up or draw a foul. Van Horn is also a superior rebounder. Guys i like Isaiah's track record too but the guy made a mistake here. The difference between TT and VH has to be around 7-10 games.

Oh brother, here we go with this comparison again. IT WAS VANHORN FOR NAZR AND TIM!!! Did you read the quotes from Isiah saying that if it was just Tim Thomas, he wouldn't have done it? Where have you been fella?

Posted by subzero0:

I know Isaiah's is praised for most of the moves he has made. However, trading Keith Van Horn for Tim Thomas was a dumb move. It was just really stupid. Tim Thomas is not someone you could give the ball two with the game winding down and ask him to create something for himself or others and as much as we jeered Horn's game he is much better than fugazy. Van Horn's not just better in career averages but also in the style he plays. You drive and kick to Van Horn and he would either hit the three or drive in to lay the ball up or draw a foul. Van Horn is also a superior rebounder. Guys i like Isaiah's track record too but the guy made a mistake here. The difference between TT and VH has to be around 7-10 games.

Plain Zero, go back to sleep with ya comments !!!

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 10/20/2004 00:09:16]

ARE U SERIOUS MAN?????? The trade was Tim Thomas and Nazr for Doleac and VanHorn....upon which the Hawks would release Doleac so that he could resign with the Knicks. He was claimed off of waivers by Denver. Get YOUR history straight. I left out Dleac purposely because he was still suppose to be a part of our plans at the time of the trade my man.

Secondly, 7 to 10 game difference? I won't even comment on that. Go back and do some homework. Look at the two player's history with the teams they both played for.

And when you come across that zero point-zero rebound game he had in game 7 of the playoffs in 02-03, tell me what you think about it. Then peak over at what Tim was doing with the minutes he was getting with his team. Do your homework. Check the playoffs....when it counts.

you know some nights you will think one way, other nights you will think we have the greatest thing since sliced bread. we traded inconsistent players for inconsistent players. I dont think any of these players are cogs on championship teams. Maybe Doleac as a back up C who can step in and start.

This is such a tough argument.

You know Marbury doesn't like KVH, but with TT spouting off about the Nets/Kenyon Martin/Collins/fugazy literally every few days, he becomes a distraction.

You knew KVh would be consistent but not come up in big spots and the playoffs.

You know TT will have his ups and downs, and at least sometimes come up in big spots.

Fact of the matter is, we got our starting SF and C for a SF, and TT fits the mold of the team better on the fast break.

Yeah, KVH is a good shooter, but he and TT have identical career 3 point percentages (36%). I think the deal helped the Knicks better though, as TT is more athletic and the Knicks are running.

Posted by BRIGGS:

you know some nights you will think one way, other nights you will think we have the greatest thing since sliced bread. we traded inconsistent players for inconsistent players. I dont think any of these players are cogs on championship teams. Maybe Doleac as a back up C who can step in and start.

100% correct but the difference is that kvh is more before the 4th quarter, then he's nowhere to be found. tim on the other hand has shown that you can count on him during the 4th. otherwise, they have the same effect throughout the course of a game.

while Marbs and KVH seemed to be getting along, I think if steph and KVH would drag up old memories and regress, then it inhibits Marbs growth as a leader. He needed a fresh start.

TT has more upside than Keith. The question is does TT have the ability to handle the pressure and step it up a notch or two.

Short term I strongly believe that KVH and Doleac were better players and better for the team. But Risks must be taken, and if this does not work out, its not fatal.

Personally I cannot stand (driving) Miss Gazy, and I really liked Doleacs game and character.

Lets give it another 50 games and see what happens.

if there was one mistake made, it was not attempting to fill the C sopot with a legit 7 footer with talent. I knew we had a real shot at chris mihm and look at the way he is playing now that he has been moved into the starting C position instead of playing part time PF/C off the bench. If there was a mistake it was spending money on Baker--when we couldve spent a little more and had the 24-25 year old Mihm.

Posted by NYKDUNK:

I think the deal would have been worth it IF AND ONLY IF we had been able to retain Doleac. KVH is the better of the two players and we ought to have gotten more out of the deal to represent that fact. He rebounds more, defends better, and scores about as much, and if I remember correctly he ran the fastbreak with Kidd as well as any other Net. The only difference is KVH has proven to be a choker in big moments, whereas TT has been far more clutch in similar moments. That is the only thing that makes the deal sensible. But overall, I agree with subzero's assessment that the trade was a mistake. KVH is better than TT, and Doleac is better than Nazr. It wasn't a catastrophic mistake by any means, but still something that I wish Isiah had a mulligan for.

I'm not suo sure he's regarded that way around the league and i'm not so sure what we could have gotten for him. Especially at this point with his being traded so often i think a lot of teams and fan bases would let out a groan if they found out they had acquired him.

Posted by fishmike:

yawn.... KVH is more productive over 82 games.. but thats about it. TT is a better fit for this team that relies on having ball handling from front court players. TT can start a break, or run a break. KVH cant take 2 dribbles without falling or kicking the ball. As far as late shots go TT is a proven playoff performer and a guy not afraid to take big shots and handle the ball in crunch time. Not only is KVH a TO waiting to happen, but he's one of the worst playoff performers of all time.

The more you watch this team to easier it is to see Penny traded this offseason for a bigman and TT's deal is just left to expire to save $$$. Ariza is the real deal and obviously fits nicely w/ Crawford, MArb and Sweetney.

Yeah Timmy just fits in better.....

except Timmy is more Lazy than Fugazy.