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Is Allan not "Ghetto" enough?
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Nalod
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10/19/2004  4:36 PM


Im gonna step out here and by all means offer not offense to anyone. This is about marketing not racial. But we all know some teams and leagues, will target market themselves to different audiances. Same as retail product and services to sell.

My point is the NBA has marketed itself partially to the "Hip Hop" generation and some guys like Marbury (appears in videos) and Iverson participate in that image.

The addition of Marbs, Craw, and TT whom all have that "Street Cred" thing, have changed the knicks to appeal to a more urban audiance.

Thus, Allan, a hold over from Charlies "god sqaud", has little of that image and perhaps was booed by a younger crowd.

There are some whom will always give passes to TT and Spree because of their street image rather than speak against them.

Allan has a sick contract, and I think his lack of image appeal contributed to the vocal response at practice the other day.

Thoughts?
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Elite
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10/19/2004  4:44 PM
Posted by Nalod:



The addition of Marbs, Craw, and TT whom all have that "Street Cred"


TT dont got no street cred, u dont get respect by being a once in a while player that challenges people to fight while they are sitting on the bench... TT is a clown

but you might be right, i think it has alittle somethin to do wit it... houston has that "soft" label which NY fans despise... still no excuse to boo him
TheloniusMonk
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10/19/2004  5:03 PM
if u go in the streets right now and ask them what they feel about tim duncan they'd say he's one of, if not the best big man in basketball. Jason Kidd has a lot of street cred too....so does Richard Jefferson. These cats aren't hip hop at all. Ask anyone up in Harlem about J. Kidd or even Ray Allen (before he got injured) and they'd give it up to them...barnone. The hip hop community loves and embraces TMac too, he's not hip hop. Baron Davis as well.

How about Jordan himself? Jordan sneakers became a huge part of hip hop culture over the years an that dude isn't hip hop at all.

It has all to do with your level of play, not whether or not hip hop culture embraces you or not. Trust me, everyone I know would be embracing Houston right now if he was shooting the lights out again. Just wait and you'll see. When he was droppin' jay's on everyone in the league, everyone at the playground was trying to stop n pop.....at least where I'm from. The hip hop community is fickle just like any other crowd. Doesn't matter if you wear cornrolls, a fro or a ceasar. That has little to do with it.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Kwazimodal
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10/19/2004  5:13 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

if u go in the streets right now and ask them what they feel about tim duncan they'd say he's one of, if not the best big man in basketball. Jason Kidd has a lot of street cred too....so does Richard Jefferson. These cats aren't hip hop at all. Ask anyone up in Harlem about J. Kidd or even Ray Allen (before he got injured) and they'd give it up to them...barnone. The hip hop community loves and embraces TMac too, he's not hip hop. Baron Davis as well.

How about Jordan himself? Jordan sneakers became a huge part of hip hop culture over the years an that dude isn't hip hop at all.

It has all to do with your level of play, not whether or not hip hop culture embraces you or not. Trust me, everyone I know would be embracing Houston right now if he was shooting the lights out again. Just wait and you'll see. When he was droppin' jay's on everyone in the league, everyone at the playground was trying to stop n pop.....at least where I'm from. The hip hop community is fickle just like any other crowd. Doesn't matter if you wear cornrolls, a fro or a ceasar. That has little to do with it.

Good post,Id also throw in Grant Hill( the younger version) into that list.I understand (I think) what you are trying to say Nalod.Teams like the old bad boys and the Knicks had their image which was marketed to reflect their toughness but not many teams have such a stark image anymore.Alot of it is just slick packaging by the team's publicity dept and not really a reflection of the personality of the players.
turtle33
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10/19/2004  5:21 PM
and I think his lack of image appeal contributed to the vocal response at practice the other day.

its a sad day for bball if this is true. it shows a serious lack of knowledge by fans.
WOODMANnYk
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10/19/2004  5:27 PM
PArt of what TheloniusMonk said is true but also Knick fans have not forgotten that contract for 100mm that he signed..

Look@ Patrick Ewing from the past, he's not Hip Hop @ all but fans had booed him numerous times in the Garden.. That's a part of the reason why he left. He felt the knicks fans no longer appreciated him.

The Future. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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10/19/2004  5:33 PM
Posted by turtle33:
and I think his lack of image appeal contributed to the vocal response at practice the other day.

its a sad day for bball if this is true. it shows a serious lack of knowledge by fans.

Its like draft day mob mentality, kinda fun thing to do. Young dudes know basketball, but don't know yet humility.

Booing alan on the court is one thing, doing it at practice, or really just a pep rally, and booing when talking with a kid is kinda lame. I was a lot more harsh when I was younger.

I don't feel sorry for allan, but just was shocked at the reaction and seeking opinions to why it happened.

Humility is a great teacher.



[Edited by - nalod on 10/19/2004 21:09:14]
Rich
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10/19/2004  5:35 PM
May be should corn roll his hair.
MaTT4281
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10/19/2004  5:43 PM
Posted by Rich:

May be should corn roll his hair.



Thx again to techno.
TheloniusMonk
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10/19/2004  5:54 PM
Also, note that people in the hip hop community still consider Houston a GREAT player. I was playing in Queensbridge recently and EVERYONE was talking about how valuable Houston is b/c of the Olympics. It was said that that's what the USA team lacked. A Houston type shooter. I don't see why or how some of the people on this board can't see that.

The convo had little to do with hip hop flavors and/or ideologies at all.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
mintyfreshness33
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10/19/2004  6:04 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Rich:

May be should corn roll his hair.



Thx again to techno.

ROFL
I think houston owns UNK, which is the nba gears which is pretty hot, especially the nba logo jeans.
daddynel
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10/19/2004  6:09 PM
Allen X. and what! i guess his "i love mom" tat is on the other arm right?
Rich
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10/19/2004  6:21 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Rich:

May be should corn roll his hair.



Thx again to techno.

LOL. What's he waiting for?
Marv
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10/19/2004  6:24 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Rich:

May be should corn roll his hair.



Thx again to techno.

btw perfect photo of what someone was asking for on another thread. Allan settin up Ray for the head and shoulders fake to get enough room to face him with the sweet j.
EnySpree
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10/19/2004  6:34 PM
Houston gets a knock because he is not that good.

People get overly excited about scoring. Houston has never really been one to take over any games offensively. It just clicked reciently that this is his team.

Well it's not any more. Houston doesn't make his teamates better. Are you guys blind? He is a great jumpshooter.....in a true offensive scheme he is just a marks man. He doesn't impact the game with his rebounding, passing, defense, ball handling, speed,etc.....just his jump shot.

Forget the street cred BS. Basketball is a street game as it is. I always thought that street cred stupidness was one of the most racist things to be said about anybody famous......might as well say they have nigga tendencies.

Bottom line....Houston said it best.....he now has to fit in this offense at 33 years old regardless of what he averaged in scoring average has been the last 3 years. The Knicks are moving the ball and creating opportunities with their ball handling and transition.

If Houston could come in and get his shot off faster than when he stands in one space for 5 secs just jab stepping by himself, then he will "fit in". The way the Knicks are playing that dump it to Houston BS will not be a every possesion thing anymore.
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EnySpree
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10/19/2004  6:45 PM
Grant Hill is totally different. Him and Houston are similiar people in that they are media darlings just sweethearts.

Grant Hill when he was healthy was one of the top talents in the league. Maybe top 5 easy. He was a killer in every aspect of the game besides his jumpshot. He was a better than average rebounder for his position. He lead his teams in assists and he was all over the fast break. He was also unstoppable one on one. This made his teamates better.

Houston does nothing but shoot. When his shot is off he get's just as much of a free ride as Spree or whoever you want to blame. Houston is not a basketball player, to me he is just a jumpshooter. They are good to have on your team but they don't make your overall team better unless they could do something else.

Peja can drive, pass, and rebound.
Ray Allen can straight up run the point, he can drive and score all over. He's not just a clear out spot up jumpshooter. He is great and creating space on his shots and shooting on the run. Plus he will dunk on you with authority.
Dirk passes, runs the floor, rebounds, and blocks shots.

Houston just shoots.
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matt
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10/19/2004  6:56 PM
Jump shooters are a necesity on any team. Take a look at the Nets for the past seasons, if they had Allan Houston type player I would say they would have beat the Spurs. The Olympics could not make it any more obvious on how important it is to have a jumpshooter. Knicks look pretty good in preseason without Houston, but its preseason. Once the regular season starts the Knicks are going to need Houston to spread the floor. In a way, he makes everyone better on offense by creating room and spreading to floor for everyone.

Houston just shoots, and its necessary
Kwazimodal
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10/19/2004  6:56 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Grant Hill is totally different. Him and Houston are similiar people in that they are media darlings just sweethearts.


They are also similar in that they arent "Ghetto".
technomaster
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10/19/2004  6:56 PM
I think the Knick fans that booed him are pretty dumb--- while I think NYers are some of the most knowledgeable fans out there, it balances out when you see the other end of the spectrum who just don't get it and are there for the flash.

I read some article a while back--- how the And 1 Mix tapes/tour are killing the fundamentals of the sport in the US. I agree with that, and I'll take it another step--- it's taking away from two basics-- on offense-- SCORE. On defense, stop the offensive player from scoring. :) It's come down to flash vs substance.

I was a tutor for an afterschool program in the lower east side last year. It was all about T-Mac vs Kobe for the NBA crown. :) We'd try to get into pick-up games w/ the students, and they'd be all about trying to wow the people watching and show up their classmates w/ ball-handling tricks and fancy passing-- not about scoring or playing defense (why play defense if the man you're guarding is going to dribble for like 30 seconds w/o going anywhere?!)

The young fans are looking for flash(and a crossover dribble!), and they see that in Crawford...
Posted by Marv:
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Rich:

May be should corn roll his hair.



Thx again to techno.

btw perfect photo of what someone was asking for on another thread. Allan settin up Ray for the head and shoulders fake to get enough room to face him with the sweet j.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
teslawlo
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10/19/2004  7:06 PM
^ Good post. There is no appreciation for players who are the best at what they do anymore. How did that happen??
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