I’m not sure we have a 3 man who can handle the rock

Robinson and Toppin don’t go together

A mish mosh roster and players will be byching for pt right away

Only fun to the season is if Barrett and Toppin play well otherwise what??

Would like to see us give our youth every opportunity to fail before we decide to trade them off or let them walk this summer. Would have preferred Dennis and Frank hold down the pg spot but thats been compromised with Elfrid here, and Rivers ability to run the point at times. I feel like Knox will get squeezed as well. Not too bothered with Randle's presence as some are. I think he could/should be trade bait at the deadline, similar to Morris last year.

I like that we are not giving out long contracts, remaining flexible and are not chasing that disgruntled player that will not only destroy our chances of landing in the top 5 of the draft, but have us competing for an 8th seed pushing into NBA purgatory.

Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing Toppin, Barrett's progression, Dennis's last dance and will Robinson finally pull the trigger on that jumper? But most of all, I'm looking forward to this college basketball season

BRIGGS wrote:They’re doing what they did last year to pf position to the pg

I’m not sure we have a 3 man who can handle the rock

Robinson and Toppin don’t go together

A mish mosh roster and players will be byching for pt right away

Only fun to the season is if Barrett and Toppin play well otherwise what??

They will go together if the PG is doing his job. We havent seen them play game one together. Too early for "Game over man".

Briggs, believe you're putting on blinders, on one big issue. When it comes to the FO building the team. You're completely discounting the value of the Knicks brand with the best players in the league. We've been a ****show for the better of the last 20 years. The owner might be the most reviled in pro sports. Thibs has a rep as a coach that grinds down players.

Yet Perry, now Rose, are supposed to turn chicken **** into instant chicken salad. Its not realistic.

There are two things that will change this dynamic. One, Dolan selling the team. Two, the Knicks becoming relevant again.

Its been a chicken and egg argument. But after 20 years, believe the chicken argument is overcooked.
Knicks have to build a team worth going to from scratch, to show the rest of the league that the franchise is on the right track. Who wants the constant MSG drama, from top to bottom?

Rose might turn out to be the right choice as team pres. Thibs might turn out to be the right coach to help the team develop a winning tradition again. Like when he was an asst. coach in NY, way back when.

Until they actually make that case, players are going to say "put up or shut up".

Knicks have no choice but to show thst they are a team on the rise. Not necessarily instant contenders. Have to get to a point where FAs can see the team ss a contender(or close) with their addition,

BRIGGS wrote:They’re doing what they did last year to pf position to the pg

I’m not sure we have a 3 man who can handle the rock

Robinson and Toppin don’t go together

A mish mosh roster and players will be byching for pt right away

Only fun to the season is if Barrett and Toppin play well otherwise what??

Toppin is an offensive dynamo that can hit the 3. Mitch is a defensive dynamo that can protect the rim. Toppin was also a 6'2 point guard his jr yr in high school, who grew to 6'5 his senior yr, who grew to 6'9 currently. So he can play with the ball in his hands some and pass relatively well. All skills that compliment Mitch.

toodarkmark wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:They’re doing what they did last year to pf position to the pg

I’m not sure we have a 3 man who can handle the rock

Robinson and Toppin don’t go together

A mish mosh roster and players will be byching for pt right away

Only fun to the season is if Barrett and Toppin play well otherwise what??

BRIGGS, I've seen you post for.. 16 years? Always thoughtful even if I don't agree with you. I can tell what the Knicks are doing because they've been doing it for years. Thry are building a loser of a team, and my statement will be true next year, and the year after that when Leon Rose is fired, and the year after that. James Dolan is punishing the fans for booing him. There is no attempt to make the playoffs, just pretend things to get to next season. I'll be writing this same post 5 years from now.

I want Dolan to sell the team just as much as any die-hard fan, but the bolded doesn't make any sense. Dolan has always pushed to make the playoffs and trade for the next big star player to the detriment of his franchise. If he truly is trying to sabotage us, then I wish he would have thought of this strategy before. It's like the Senfeld episode when George does the opposite and finally everything works out for him.

This push to not make the playoffs has us collecting draft picks, improving our ability to get top 5 picks, we are not adding additional salary by trading for the over the hill stars will contracts the handicap the cap...etc.

It has two parts. First, is that you need two top 10 players to be a contender in this version of the NBA. Its really an all or none league. If you don't have 2, you are better off playing the lotto. Lebron James and Anthony Davis are sitting on the throne. Only player I think AD leaves Lebron for is Giannis Antekoumpo. That is just an age statement and nothing else. Unless GA can work out a trade right now, they will be looking to pair in 2021 free agency. I do believe that is the holdup with Anthony Davis re-signing and Giannis signing the supermax. I don't think this necessarily means NY is the destination. But they are probably one of a few possible locations out there. Certainly feels like the two are acting in concert.

The second is that the Knicks are better off waiting one more year. Truth is, the Garden will be empty this year no matter who they sign or don't. If some magical superstar trade were to be made available, I think you pull that trigger immediately (Bird in the band). That said, if they were to wait one more year, add next years draft picks to this core and then sign 70MM worth of free agents, the only downside risk there is that they are not strong enough to entice free agents. With that many draft picks and $70mm, I am willing to take those changes.

The way I see it, the Bucks gave up way too much for Jrue Holiday. If I am Giannis, I am impressed by this, but it absolutely hampers them going forward. Jrue Holiday is not a top 10 player. Even if Bogdonovic did not deny the trade, it really didn't make sense. It hurt more than it helped. Reeks of desperation.

I really think AD and GA pair up, wither this year or next. If it were the Knicks, they send Randle, Barrett (those salaries currently match GA) and a bunch of draft picks to get GA. They could pretty easily still clear enough space to sign AD outright by moving DSJ and FN. The Knicks roster only makes sense if they are leaving room for this possibility. It doesn't really make sense otherwise. I don't think there are many other places that can make a better deal for GA and return draft picks.

The real question is whether you give up Barrett and draft picks to do it in 2020 (if even possible) or wait to 2021 and have that entire stash of players and picks ready to sign? Honestly, unless you were certain they were coming (nothing is certain), I'd pull the trigger sooner than later. But, if you were really connected and knew they were coming in 2021, you would have a hoard of high draft picks and free agent dollars to spend in 2021. Only Oklahoma is better positioned for 2021, imo.

Safest move is to lock in two top 10 players now. But, they need willing counterparties to do that. Nothing is clear that this is even possible. So, barring some magic AD/GA pairing that catches everyone unaware, the Knicks should walk into 2021 with a developing squad, a fistful of draft picks and wad of cash.

Chandler wrote:have a tough time agreeing that adding Elfrid at 5 mill and Austin at 3.3 per year is anything akin to Julius 20+, Taj 10, Portis 15, marcus 15

that said, there is a glut of pgs 5 by my count but i think that will shake out some

Who are the 5? Elf, DSJr, Frank?

I don't get the 5

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:have a tough time agreeing that adding Elfrid at 5 mill and Austin at 3.3 per year is anything akin to Julius 20+, Taj 10, Portis 15, marcus 15

that said, there is a glut of pgs 5 by my count but i think that will shake out some

Who are the 5? Elf, DSJr, Frank?

I don't get the 5

There are some “combo” guards in that count. They don’t have much in the way of pure shooting guards. But, a lot of short combo guards.

Payton, DSJ, Ntlikina, Rivers, Quickley, Harper, Powell(?)

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:have a tough time agreeing that adding Elfrid at 5 mill and Austin at 3.3 per year is anything akin to Julius 20+, Taj 10, Portis 15, marcus 15

that said, there is a glut of pgs 5 by my count but i think that will shake out some

Who are the 5? Elf, DSJr, Frank?

I don't get the 5

Rivers can give you spot minutes at PG, so I'll count him as .5. I'd feel better if he was counted 1/3 of a PG, but our roster is what it is right now. IQ isn't a PG at this point, tho that could change as the season moves forward. Powell...I don't know. Harper is here for now and he is definitely a lead guard. I'd say we have 3.5 guys we can list as "point guards" going in, with a few wild cards. In retrospect, I'd say we should have tried to sign Shabazz Napier over Rivers. But who knows what the next move is. Elf is as good a tank commander as any, so I'm not really worried yet.

ramtour420 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:have a tough time agreeing that adding Elfrid at 5 mill and Austin at 3.3 per year is anything akin to Julius 20+, Taj 10, Portis 15, marcus 15

that said, there is a glut of pgs 5 by my count but i think that will shake out some

Who are the 5? Elf, DSJr, Frank?

I don't get the 5

Rivers can give you spot minutes at PG, so I'll count him as .5. I'd feel better if he was counted 1/3 of a PG, but our roster is what it is right now. IQ isn't a PG at this point, tho that could change as the season moves forward. Powell...I don't know. Harper is here for now and he is definitely a lead guard. I'd say we have 3.5 guys we can list as "point guards" going in, with a few wild cards. In retrospect, I'd say we should have tried to sign Shabazz Napier over Rivers. But who knows what the next move is. Elf is as good a tank commander as any, so I'm not really worried yet.

Quickley has been a PG his whole life. Look at his HS stats/games. Didn't he average like 7 assists? It was only under Calipari that he was only used to shoot and not really look to distribute. In any case I think we might be too getting caught up with the doing old "is he a PG or a SG? He can both destribute and shoot? So he is neither?" I think in today's age it's more position less. RJ is gonna be our version of Harden, kinda like Rose was in Chicago and everyone else will need to make those 3's/putbacks/lobs.

Well, think of it this way: Calipari decided Hagan's was better on ball. Yes, he played PG in highschool. But you look at his clips at Kentucky and you can see he still has work to do if he wants that role. I'm not saying he won't get there. I can easily see him defending the opposing 1 while someone else orchestrates the offense. The kid works hard. I am saying that as of now, we shouldn't count on him as a 1.