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2021 NCAA prospect watch / 2021 Draft
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KnickDanger
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7/27/2021  1:13 PM
Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?
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VDesai
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7/27/2021  2:03 PM
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

I guess his head was never in the college game- gotta question is competetiveness, but you don't get the overall talent level at 19 that he can bring to the table. Point forward ability with a good frame. Not sure about his outside shooting just yet, but he does everything else pretty well at his size.
BRIGGS
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7/27/2021  2:38 PM
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Id take him like Denver took Porter.

RIP Crushalot😞
Uptown
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7/27/2021  2:40 PM
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.
BigDaddyG
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7/27/2021  2:44 PM
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
KnickDanger
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7/27/2021  3:54 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.
fishmike
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7/27/2021  4:41 PM

Ziaire Williams has worked out with the Knicks and says he loved it there. World Wide Wes is his guy, met coach Thibs as well.
Wasnt WWW the one pushing hardest for IQ?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Chandler
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7/27/2021  5:04 PM
just based on what i've read, i have an easier time taking a flyer on Ziare than Johnson. The interview i read of Johnson was a huge turnoff-- thought he was way immature. Who knows? things can be totally different and it could have been the crappiest part of an interview.

WOuld love for the Knicks to strike IQ-like gold again.

(5)(5)
BigDaddyG
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7/27/2021  6:28 PM
KnickDanger wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.


They have potentially differing skill sets, but they're both raw forwards who are probably stuck at one position. I'm not convinced Jalen can swing to SF and, personally, I'm getting weary of taking in more major prospects. Especially one who doesn't fill a need. At least Zaire projects into being a solid 3&d wing. At least Kai has the potential of being a floor spacing big. Cooper has the potential of being an elite floor general. Jalen, even if he reached his final form, doesn't really add a lot to the roster. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but do you think he grades out much better than Zaire?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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7/27/2021  6:29 PM
fishmike wrote:
Ziaire Williams has worked out with the Knicks and says he loved it there. World Wide Wes is his guy, met coach Thibs as well.
Wasnt WWW the one pushing hardest for IQ?

Yep. We'll see.....
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
KnickDanger
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7/27/2021  7:10 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.


They have potentially differing skill sets, but they're both raw forwards who are probably stuck at one position. I'm not convinced Jalen can swing to SF and, personally, I'm getting weary of taking in more major prospects. Especially one who doesn't fill a need. At least Zaire projects into being a solid 3&d wing. At least Kai has the potential of being a floor spacing big. Cooper has the potential of being an elite floor general. Jalen, even if he reached his final form, doesn't really add a lot to the roster. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but do you think he grades out much better than Zaire?

I really don't know! And I certainly don't disagree with anything you're saying. I'm playing catch up and just processing the information pouring in -- this is the first time in a while we're not looking at a lottery pick so it's more all over the place. Who knows if we stick at 19 and 21 -- but my personal preference is to get as "pure" a point guard as we can. Is that Cooper? Certainly prioritizing need makes sense -- and we could use talent at just about everywhere besides PF -- depending on what else we do.
BigDaddyG
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7/27/2021  7:37 PM
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Uptown
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7/27/2021  7:57 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.


They have potentially differing skill sets, but they're both raw forwards who are probably stuck at one position. I'm not convinced Jalen can swing to SF and, personally, I'm getting weary of taking in more major prospects. Especially one who doesn't fill a need. At least Zaire projects into being a solid 3&d wing. At least Kai has the potential of being a floor spacing big. Cooper has the potential of being an elite floor general. Jalen, even if he reached his final form, doesn't really add a lot to the roster. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but do you think he grades out much better than Zaire?

Jalen is more skilled than Obi. Obi is a finisher while Jalen can finish just as well and can also set the table. He has the skill set to run some point forward. He js also a better defensive player. He impacts the game in more ways than Obi does. With that said, I understand where you are coming from as far as drafting players that do not fill an immediate need. But at 19, Jalen is great value...Highly doubt he will be there..
Uptown
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7/27/2021  8:00 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:

Wow!! Literally the best passer in the draft by a mile.
BigDaddyG
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7/27/2021  8:06 PM
Uptown wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.


They have potentially differing skill sets, but they're both raw forwards who are probably stuck at one position. I'm not convinced Jalen can swing to SF and, personally, I'm getting weary of taking in more major prospects. Especially one who doesn't fill a need. At least Zaire projects into being a solid 3&d wing. At least Kai has the potential of being a floor spacing big. Cooper has the potential of being an elite floor general. Jalen, even if he reached his final form, doesn't really add a lot to the roster. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but do you think he grades out much better than Zaire?

Jalen is more skilled than Obi. Obi is a finisher while Jalen can finish just as well and can also set the table. He has the skill set to run some point forward. He js also a better defensive player. He impacts the game in more ways than Obi does. With that said, I understand where you are coming from as far as drafting players that do not fill an immediate need. But at 19, Jalen is great value...Highly doubt he will be there..

I agree, Jalen can set the table in transition. The problem is half-court, where his handle and ability to pass start to break down. His defensive IQ s also kinda bad. Not as bad as Obi's, but headscratching. I'm not denying his talent, but his weaknesses get magnified here. And again, does he grade out better than some of the other guys who will be available? If I'm going with a guy destined for the G-League next year, I'm probably going Zaire.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Uptown
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7/27/2021  8:22 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Any thoughts on Jalen Johnson who seems to be "falling?" Seems a bit immature but not evil -- like Mitch was perhaps? Talent is there right?

Can't see him falling to 19, but if he does, you take him without a second thought!! He has to ten talent.


Yep, he has the raw physical talent. His J is questionable and his shot creation needs work. But he's kind of redundant and to Obi, meaning he won't play. And I really would like someone who can shoot.

SI mock draft has us taking him at #19. He seems to be one of those guys projected all over the place. I'm the opposite of an expert on this stuff, but from what I read he is more of a passer and defender than Obi. Obi likely has the better shot.

I'm not campaigning for him but it's all getting interesting.


They have potentially differing skill sets, but they're both raw forwards who are probably stuck at one position. I'm not convinced Jalen can swing to SF and, personally, I'm getting weary of taking in more major prospects. Especially one who doesn't fill a need. At least Zaire projects into being a solid 3&d wing. At least Kai has the potential of being a floor spacing big. Cooper has the potential of being an elite floor general. Jalen, even if he reached his final form, doesn't really add a lot to the roster. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but do you think he grades out much better than Zaire?

Jalen is more skilled than Obi. Obi is a finisher while Jalen can finish just as well and can also set the table. He has the skill set to run some point forward. He js also a better defensive player. He impacts the game in more ways than Obi does. With that said, I understand where you are coming from as far as drafting players that do not fill an immediate need. But at 19, Jalen is great value...Highly doubt he will be there..

I agree, Jalen can set the table in transition. The problem is half-court, where his handle and ability to pass start to break down. His defensive IQ s also kinda bad. Not as bad as Obi's, but headscratching. I'm not denying his talent, but his weaknesses get magnified here. And again, does he grade out better than some of the other guys who will be available? If I'm going with a guy destined for the G-League next year, I'm probably going Zaire.

Jalens best position is probably power forward. Selecting Jalen @19 is a value pick that we can package to a make a trade proposal more enticing. Jalen could also trigger other moves. My main point is grabbing a top 10 talent at 19. If it ever came down to Obi vs Jalen, I'm taking Jalen 10xs out of 10. But, the discussion is in vain because I highly doubt he will be there at 19

I wouldn't be mad if we selected Zaire. He has potential as a shot creater and his length on the defensive end.
KnickDanger
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7/27/2021  9:19 PM
Okay, here's a list I cut and pasted from NBA Draft Room of top point guards in the draft. Once you get below Giddey and Mitchell they are mocked all over the place and it would seem most might be available when the Knicks pick at 19, 21, or even 32. Personally I still think our primary need is point guard (not discounting other needs like shooting!). Anyway, anyone have thoughts on any of these guys that you'd like to see the Knicks take? We've talked a bit about Cooper above and I think I'd be happy with him.


Cade Cunningham – 6-8 – Oklahoma St.
Jalen Suggs – 6-4 – Gonzaga
Josh Giddey – 6-8 – Australia
Davion Mitchell – 6-2 – Baylor
Jared Butler – 6-3 – Baylor
Tre Mann – 6-5 – Florida
Miles McBride – 6-2 – West Virginia
Nah’Shon Hyland – 6-3 – VCU
Sharife Cooper 6-0 – Auburn
Ayo Dosunmu – 6-5 – Illinois
Joel Ayayi – 6-5 – Gonzaga
Rokas Jokubaitis – 6-4 – Lithuania
Duane Washington Jr. – 6-3 – Ohio State
Dalano Banton – 6-9 – Nebraska
Daishon Nix – 6-4 – G League
David Johnson – 6-5 – Louisville
Jason Preston – 6-4 – Ohio
D.J. Carton – 6-1 – Marquette
Javonte Smart – 6-4 – LSU
Mac McClung – 6-2 – Texas Tech
TPercy
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7/28/2021  8:36 AM
One more day gentlemen!
The Future is Bright!
Chandler
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7/28/2021  8:53 AM
I’ve cooled on cooper. There are things to admire for sure but will be too big a vulnerability on D If he’s there at 32 might consider but not sooner.

What do the college gurus think of hauser? Seems like his lack of athleticism is baked into his price. Guy can shoot it

(5)(5)
KnickDanger
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7/28/2021  12:19 PM
Too many draft threads popping up so I'm coming back here. Tomorrow night we'll know more -- right now it seems once you get past the first ten or so anybody can go anywhere. Add some trades in and it should be a fun night!
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