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Sweetney rebounding...
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Panos
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10/18/2004  4:33 PM
In case this has been missed on anyone,
in this young preseason, Mikey has pulled down
17 rebounds in 50 mins of play.

Not bad! Not bad at all!

He's also scored an impressive 18 pts, tho I would
like to see his % up.
AUTOADVERT
BRIGGS
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10/18/2004  5:53 PM
a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.

RIP Crushalot😞
mintyfreshness33
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10/18/2004  10:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.

dang, nice to know.
teslawlo
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10/18/2004  10:17 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.
Yeah I remember watching a sort of documentary on his path to the NBA. It definitely wasn't easy and he often wasn't exactly the most coachable/likable guy, but luckily Sweetney is and is also younger than Dennis. Now one question remains: do our young guys have the desire to improve? And judging from what I have seen so far, Sweetney, Ariza, and Crawford have shown some signs of "wanting it."
http://allknicks.com
bernard
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10/19/2004  9:40 AM
Yeah, interesting anecdote.

Also interesting how Rodman epitomizes a completely different kind of rebounder from Sweets. IMO, there are 3 styles of excellent rebounders. Quick, hustling, tenacious rebounders, with great strength, hops, desire and timing (Rodman, maybe Ben Wallace). Powerful, position-minded rebounders, also with great strength, desire and timing (Sweets, Paul Silas, Wes Unseld). Huge guys who are strong and determined enough to hold position but rely greatly on height (Wilt, Shaq, David Robinson).

The second category, imo, has produced the greatest rebounders in the game's history. And while it's obviously a stretch to put Sweets next to Silas and Unseld, that's what he can aspire to.
toodarkmark
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10/19/2004  9:56 AM
What people fail to mention is that Dennis Rodman is an alien.
Posted by BRIGGS:

a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Marv
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10/19/2004  10:02 AM
Posted by bernard:

Yeah, interesting anecdote.

Also interesting how Rodman epitomizes a completely different kind of rebounder from Sweets. IMO, there are 3 styles of excellent rebounders. Quick, hustling, tenacious rebounders, with great strength, hops, desire and timing (Rodman, maybe Ben Wallace). Powerful, position-minded rebounders, also with great strength, desire and timing (Sweets, Paul Silas, Wes Unseld). Huge guys who are strong and determined enough to hold position but rely greatly on height (Wilt, Shaq, David Robinson).

The second category, imo, has produced the greatest rebounders in the game's history. And while it's obviously a stretch to put Sweets next to Silas and Unseld, that's what he can aspire to.

GREAT analysis. Sorry I always have to be the old-timers' bitch, but here's my additions to your list: 1st cateogry - Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Gus Johnson. 2nd category -= Dave Cowens, Bob Petit, Jerry Lucas. 3rd category - Sven Nater, Mark Eaton, George Mikan. Finailly, across all 3 categories, the GREATEST rebounder who ever lived, Bill Russell.
NYKBocker
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10/19/2004  10:59 AM
You have to put Oakley in the 2nd category. Same with Michael Cage.
Marv
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10/19/2004  11:48 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:

You have to put Oakley in the 2nd category. Same with Michael Cage.

Good ones.
Nalod
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10/19/2004  12:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.

and his dress size has not changed a bit!
Marv
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10/19/2004  12:46 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by BRIGGS:

a quick note on rebounding. perhaps the most unrivaled story of the NBA that only some people know about is that dennis rodman was 5-11 when he graduated HS and didnt start playing basketball until he was 20 years old--he grew 7.5 inches after HS he worked at a graveyard and quit because he felt like he could play basketball
4 years later he was drafted in the 2nd round by the pistons at the age of 25[so much for potnetial!] and at 6-7 215 pounds went on to win 7 rebounding titles 2 defensive POY awards and 1st team all D 9 times and was on 6 different championship teams.

and his dress size has not changed a bit!

HA!!
yeah that girl could always hide those extra inches
bernard
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10/19/2004  1:40 PM
Thanks ... and yeah, those are good additions (tho I never saw Mikan or even Bill Russell play). Other good examples are Buck Williams in category 1, Maurice Lucas in category 2, and Bill Walton in the huge guy category. Also interesting how few of these rebounding all-time greats are leapers.
Posted by Marv:
Posted by bernard:

Yeah, interesting anecdote.

Also interesting how Rodman epitomizes a completely different kind of rebounder from Sweets. IMO, there are 3 styles of excellent rebounders. Quick, hustling, tenacious rebounders, with great strength, hops, desire and timing (Rodman, maybe Ben Wallace). Powerful, position-minded rebounders, also with great strength, desire and timing (Sweets, Paul Silas, Wes Unseld). Huge guys who are strong and determined enough to hold position but rely greatly on height (Wilt, Shaq, David Robinson).

The second category, imo, has produced the greatest rebounders in the game's history. And while it's obviously a stretch to put Sweets next to Silas and Unseld, that's what he can aspire to.

GREAT analysis. Sorry I always have to be the old-timers' bitch, but here's my additions to your list: 1st cateogry - Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Gus Johnson. 2nd category -= Dave Cowens, Bob Petit, Jerry Lucas. 3rd category - Sven Nater, Mark Eaton, George Mikan. Finailly, across all 3 categories, the GREATEST rebounder who ever lived, Bill Russell.
PhilinLA
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10/19/2004  1:57 PM
Sweetney can be something special, especially if he starts canning his FT's with greater consistency. And the Knicks have to find a way to give him a little more room to work down in the blocks.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Marv
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10/19/2004  2:02 PM
Posted by bernard:

Thanks ... and yeah, those are good additions (tho I never saw Mikan or even Bill Russell play). Other good examples are Buck Williams in category 1, Maurice Lucas in category 2, and Bill Walton in the huge guy category. Also interesting how few of these rebounding all-time greats are leapers.
Posted by Marv:
Posted by bernard:

Yeah, interesting anecdote.

Also interesting how Rodman epitomizes a completely different kind of rebounder from Sweets. IMO, there are 3 styles of excellent rebounders. Quick, hustling, tenacious rebounders, with great strength, hops, desire and timing (Rodman, maybe Ben Wallace). Powerful, position-minded rebounders, also with great strength, desire and timing (Sweets, Paul Silas, Wes Unseld). Huge guys who are strong and determined enough to hold position but rely greatly on height (Wilt, Shaq, David Robinson).

The second category, imo, has produced the greatest rebounders in the game's history. And while it's obviously a stretch to put Sweets next to Silas and Unseld, that's what he can aspire to.

GREAT analysis. Sorry I always have to be the old-timers' bitch, but here's my additions to your list: 1st cateogry - Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Gus Johnson. 2nd category -= Dave Cowens, Bob Petit, Jerry Lucas. 3rd category - Sven Nater, Mark Eaton, George Mikan. Finailly, across all 3 categories, the GREATEST rebounder who ever lived, Bill Russell.

Right on. And we both forgot Moses Malone!
Nalod
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10/20/2004  9:36 AM
Gotta add Dave Debussure!

Not just a great athlete, he had timing abilty and technique to get the job done. Good list!

Dave and Gus were great matchups.

Happy Hairston! The best power forward name!
TheSage
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10/21/2004  10:57 AM
Most of you are too young to remember Harry "the Horse" Gallatin who was the knicks center in the 50's. He was 6'6" (small even then) couldn't jump higher than a few inches but was consistently was of the toughest rebounders in the league-he relied on anticipation, desire, position and timing.

Sweetney has some of those qualities with some hops, long arms and greater athleticism. He may not be the high flyer but the tortoise won the race.
Nalod
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10/21/2004  11:25 AM
Posted by TheSage:

Most of you are too young to remember Harry "the Horse" Gallatin who was the knicks center in the 50's. He was 6'6" (small even then) couldn't jump higher than a few inches but was consistently was of the toughest rebounders in the league-he relied on anticipation, desire, position and timing.

Sweetney has some of those qualities with some hops, long arms and greater athleticism. He may not be the high flyer but the tortoise won the race.

Whoa, thats even Way WAY before my time. You going back to that black and white photo era.

Rebounding is about timing, instinct and heart.

The KVH-TT Rebounding comp is severe. Isiah said about KVH: A guy whom averages 8 rpg in the NBA is not soft. TT has no heart, thus cannot use his ability and stature to get them.

Rodman was all heart in how he could steal and rebound.

Russels shot blocking was so important. He would not swat and start storming around being cool, he would block it, but would work to make sure he received his block. That was about touch, block it enough,and grab it to start a break. Russell was not about stats or points, he knew what he was good at and did it. Thats why he was the anchor of his 11 rings in 13 years!

Today, we yell that h20 does not do everything. IF we had russell today, we'd be complaining he does not post up enough, or shoot enough, or knock people down enough.
TheSage
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10/21/2004  6:50 PM
Nalod you're right, if Ny had Russell they'd complain that his whole offense was put backs, that he couldn't score consistantly from more than 5 feet out,that he'd clog up the middle. Shaq has no outside shot and can't shoot fouls (Same for Wilt).
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