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BigDaddyG
Posts: 39834 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
11/11/2020 6:48 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:I actually believe in him in his desire to run a team for himself without being a go to scorer. I would be ok with the Knicks signing him. Yeah, but I got worried when he talked about comparing different situations and noted how some are better than others. He didn't mention the Knicks specifically, but you know that's who he meant hahahaha we might have to up to $25M per to nab him. That's a little too rich for me. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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smackeddog
Posts: 38389 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/30/2005 Member: #883 |
11/12/2020 3:48 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I actually believe in him in his desire to run a team for himself without being a go to scorer. I would be ok with the Knicks signing him. He seems gettable, if we want him and are willing to pay. However, there can't be much competition from other teams if the Suns land CP3. I guess the main threat would be Detroit? Hawks seem to have other plans, though maybe they could go for a 2 PG line up? Ah, actually, maybe New Orleans are planning in going after him and that's why they're moving Holiday (maybe could even do a sign and trade with Ball going to Toronto?) |
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franco12
Posts: 34069 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
11/12/2020 8:35 AM
I've flip flopped a bit in my thinking on FVV.
But, I do think I'd rather have him at 4 years $80-100M than Chris Paul or Westbrook at their age/contract $s. I think it's a safer investment, especially in the long term. |
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Allanfan20
Posts: 35947 Alba Posts: 50 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #542 USA |
11/12/2020 8:57 AM
franco12 wrote:I've flip flopped a bit in my thinking on FVV. Their age, contracts and assets we’d have to give up. “Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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Nalod
Posts: 71125 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
11/12/2020 9:17 AM
Funny, we get Clearanthony for a song, but he gets shot. We get Baker for free, and he was cool but his body could not keep up with heart. We all remember his contract more than what he gave us. He bulked up and lost his shot and tried to use his physical attributes but he kept breaking. Tour’e Murray...... And of all the Wichita State Shockers that we have run thru here FVV was the real deal and we have to pay him 100mil? Wow!!!! Official Nalod take? I have no idea if he is worth it. I like him. He has that Derek Fisher (the player) Kind of good which is important but do you add a guy like that now or as a finishing piece when the roster is refined and defined? He is a “Winner” but does he influence the team enough to warrant the “Opportunity cost”. |
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SupremeCommander
Posts: 34056 Alba Posts: 35 Joined: 4/28/2006 Member: #1127 |
11/12/2020 3:59 PM
I want to sign him. I wasn't sure but then all these trade rumors for guys making over $40 mil a year. We could overpay FVV and it will look cheap by comparison
DLeethal wrote:
Lol Rick needs a safe space
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fishmike
Posts: 53805 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/12/2020 4:32 PM
totally depends on who/how the draft plays out.
If we draft speed and pickup Maxsey and Kira Lewis then obviously no. But what if someone like Obi Topin falls? Or Okongwu? If we end up with an athletic froncourt guy we are potentially looking to pair with Mitch long term then FVV is the exactly the guy you are happy to overpay for. You want a floor general that can elevate the play of the guys around him and FVV is def that kind of player. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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fwk00
Posts: 22162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/20/2015 Member: #6048 |
11/12/2020 4:42 PM
FVV is at his absolute high priced peak based on playing in an ideally suited situation.
If he's all about the money then I would back off. Whoever signs him will be looking to get out from under in a season. His fit works well in Toronto - questionable anywhere else. |
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martin
Posts: 76144 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/12/2020 5:06 PM
fwk00 wrote:FVV is at his absolute high priced peak based on playing in an ideally suited situation. Let's not be coy, every player is all about the money. He just said it out loud Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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fwk00
Posts: 22162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/20/2015 Member: #6048 |
11/12/2020 5:13 PM
martin wrote:fwk00 wrote:FVV is at his absolute high priced peak based on playing in an ideally suited situation. I'm not being naive about the money part. My broader point is that based on lots of metrics FVV is what you see. There is no upside and what you see is a very good player. But he's not a franchise changer. Nobody is going to look at him and decide to play for NY. And what you're paying for is Toronto's success not yours. So money in this context means overpay for an over-achieving tier-two player. Not the worst thing we've ever done but it will disappoint. |
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doomed
Posts: 20230 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/13/2006 Member: #1078 USA |
11/12/2020 11:01 PM LAST EDITED: 11/12/2020 11:02 PM
Why does FVV have to be a franchise changer? We have absolute trash at the guard position. FVV just has to be good. We haven’t had a good PG in decades.
Keep waiting for that grand slam in FA and you’ll keep on waiting. Knicks need FVV and he just happens to be available as a UFA. Now we’re gonna say he’s too expensive? |
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fwk00
Posts: 22162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/20/2015 Member: #6048 |
11/13/2020 12:22 AM
doomed wrote:Why does FVV have to be a franchise changer? We have absolute trash at the guard position. FVV just has to be good. We haven’t had a good PG in decades. Well, I disagree that the Knicks guards are trash. So we disagree there. You obviously disagree and the cohort of fans you represent go down the PG rabbithole as if somebody/anybody is better than anyone we ever have had in the last twenty years or so. And at the extreme you're willing to throw mega-contract money at a guy who is good on a very good team. And for that money, hype, and expectation all he has to be is good [because he has already touched his ceiling]. NY will devour and spit him out like curdled milk by mid-season. And when his contract prevents signing someone next cycle how many picks do we throw in to get rid of him? Just my opinion. To me, big money required big payoff. FVV isn't moving any needles (at least for me). |
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djsunyc
Posts: 44929 Alba Posts: 42 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #536 |
11/13/2020 12:37 AM
what does giving fleek (his name is fred van fleek) $25 mil a year prevent the knicks from doing?
what is the downside? what is the upside? |
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Allanfan20
Posts: 35947 Alba Posts: 50 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #542 USA |
11/13/2020 4:53 AM
djsunyc wrote:what does giving fleek (his name is fred van fleek) $25 mil a year prevent the knicks from doing? Upsides- He’s young, tough and clutch. He can pass, shoot the 3, dribble penetrate a little and he plays defense. He wants to run his own team. Downsides- Giving 25 million to someone who isn’t and shouldn’t be the best player on your team is risky business. With that said, based on the video, I don’t think even he is expecting 25 million a year offers. “Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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franco12
Posts: 34069 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
11/13/2020 8:28 AM
fwk00 wrote:doomed wrote:Why does FVV have to be a franchise changer? We have absolute trash at the guard position. FVV just has to be good. We haven’t had a good PG in decades. Right there - you lose all credibility. Your allowed your opinion, but not facts. Facts say the Knick PG situation is garbage. DSjr? Probably out of the league. Frank N? Drafted had the greatest chance for stardom and bustdom. Looks more like he is headed to 10th man status at best based on what he has done in his time here. Payton? Absolute garbage! Who am I missing? Frank yet may redeem himself, but if you are a GM heading into the next Knick season and you do nothing to upgrade the PG position, you are negligent of your duties and deserve to be fired. FVV may not be great, and his stats may take a hit when he leaves Toronto and their talent for our roster. But he starts helping us establishing a system and culture. He helps us answer the question - what can other talent on this team do with a PG that can actually run a system and offense. What happens when our PG can hit an open shot? We don't know because we don't have one. What is the last PG we had that was decent? 41 year old Jason Kidd? He will move the needle just by creating a steady, acceptable level of talent, skill and production as our starting PG. He doesn't need to be Mark Jackson, just a combo of Charlie Ward & Chris Childs with a little extra talent. |
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Nalod
Posts: 71125 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
11/13/2020 10:29 AM
Y’all make good points and then bland generalizations at the same time.
Its not what Frank and Dennis have done, this what can they do going forward in a stable environment either has experienced. Perhaps one does not stick long term. Perhaps they need more time in a secondary role until they fully mature. Frank is 22. He is a disappointment but that is not etched in stone. We have talked about him and Dennis in length. As for Fred, the thought he can bring all that structure and to establish a system and culture MIGHT be over optimistic to put on one players shoulders. Fred, LIke Derek Fisher is all that kind of wonderful but the players he is surrounded by matters. He came into his own on the court with Marc Gasol, Kawahi, Lowery, Siakim and Ibaka. They were years in the making under Maasai and Gentry who was fired the year he was COY!!! Nurse took it to the next level but so did the trades they made. Fred can’t bring that. He can bring maturity, patience and a good talent. But at what cost? And if you spend on him what opportunity is missed because of it that might impact more in the next 24 months. He is an upgrade and that simple fact should and does matter. Charlie Ward had a nice team around him. Otherwise he might not have stuck in the league. |
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Philc1
Posts: 28319 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 9/2/2020 Member: #8897 |
11/13/2020 11:46 AM
Knicks have been getting burned by free agents for 10 years. I’d be shocked if Van Vleet came here even if we offered to overpay the hell out of him
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Philc1
Posts: 28319 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 9/2/2020 Member: #8897 |
11/13/2020 11:47 AM
franco12 wrote:I've flip flopped a bit in my thinking on FVV. Paul only has 2 years left on his deal. Westbrook 3 For Van Vleet to really consider coming here knicks would have to offer a 5 year deal in the range of $120 million |
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Philc1
Posts: 28319 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 9/2/2020 Member: #8897 |
11/13/2020 11:48 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:I want to sign him. I wasn't sure but then all these trade rumors for guys making over $40 mil a year. We could overpay FVV and it will look cheap by comparison It’s the years not the money. Once you are locked into Van Vleet you are locked in for probably 5 years (that’s what we would have to offer him to have a shot) |