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Yall Must'a Forgot (For Houston Fans)
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tkf
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10/18/2004  3:16 PM

This must be the 5 step plan for most knicks fans:
If a player is down do as follows..


1)Kick that player when he is down
2) Kick that player again
3) Kick him some more
4) Kick him some more until he is either traded, or Humiliated
5) repeat steps 1-4

this is pathetic..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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eViL
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10/18/2004  3:33 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by eViL:

I'd like the answer to that question too, Fishmike.
Posted by Panos:


You want proof? He could always go to
management and renegotiate his contract and stop the
booing right in its tracks. But he doesn't, nor should
he. I wouldn't. But don't feel sorry for him, either.

NBA players and management cannot renegotiate guaranteed contracts. Once his contract was signed it became guaranteed - no renegotiations.

That's ridiculous. Ever heard of a buyout?

Are you suggesting that it would have been smart to buy him out of $100M contract and allowing him to become a free agent, while still paying him for a contract that still counts against our cap and getting absolutely nothing in return plus losing our starting shooting guard? I doubt that was your suggestion.

So what was the scenario that you envisioned with the Houston contract renegotiation?
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Panos
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10/18/2004  3:53 PM
Again not justifying the booing, but...

Just to sketch out the magnitude by which Houston is overpaid,
as of last year, he was tied for fourth for the highest paid
player, while being the 13th-16th best SHOOTING GUARD (not player,
he was probably about the 60th (wild guess) or so best player)
in the league. (see http://www.insidehoops.com/nbasalaries.shtml for last year's salaries).


Now granted there are other players in the league with such
out of whack valuations. See Penny, and last year KVH and McDyess,
just to name a few we are familiar with. I suppose the fans
take it more personally since we signed Houston to that money
and they feel duped that he didn't live up to the expectations.
The other guys we brought in knowing they were over-paid.
Dunno...
Panos
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10/18/2004  3:55 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by eViL:

I'd like the answer to that question too, Fishmike.
Posted by Panos:


You want proof? He could always go to
management and renegotiate his contract and stop the
booing right in its tracks. But he doesn't, nor should
he. I wouldn't. But don't feel sorry for him, either.

NBA players and management cannot renegotiate guaranteed contracts. Once his contract was signed it became guaranteed - no renegotiations.

That's ridiculous. Ever heard of a buyout?

Are you suggesting that it would have been smart to buy him out of $100M contract and allowing him to become a free agent, while still paying him for a contract that still counts against our cap and getting absolutely nothing in return plus losing our starting shooting guard? I doubt that was your suggestion.

So what was the scenario that you envisioned with the Houston contract renegotiation?

I am not envisioning that at all. You said that there was no
renegotiation of guaranteed contracts. I offered you an example
illustrating that you were wrong.
Panos
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10/18/2004  3:57 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by eViL:

I'd like the answer to that question too, Fishmike.
Posted by Panos:


You want proof? He could always go to
management and renegotiate his contract and stop the
booing right in its tracks. But he doesn't, nor should
he. I wouldn't. But don't feel sorry for him, either.

NBA players and management cannot renegotiate guaranteed contracts. Once his contract was signed it became guaranteed - no renegotiations.

That's ridiculous. Ever heard of a buyout?

Are you suggesting that it would have been smart to buy him out of $100M contract and allowing him to become a free agent, while still paying him for a contract that still counts against our cap and getting absolutely nothing in return plus losing our starting shooting guard? I doubt that was your suggestion.

So what was the scenario that you envisioned with the Houston contract renegotiation?

I am not envisioning that at all. You said that there was no
renegotiation of guaranteed contracts. I offered you an example
illustrating that you were wrong. A buyout is an EXAMPLE of a
renegotiation. Nothing stopping two willing parties to scrap a
contract and sign a new one.
eViL
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10/18/2004  4:04 PM
OK. Now I'm not the type of person to get into this crap with people. But seriously now, why are you even taking it there? You want to be soooooo technical just so you can win a point. Please. If the contract is bought out and a new one is signed. Then the contract is not renegotiated. It's not the same contract. The original still gets paid and a new one is signed. This is lame.
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Nalod
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10/18/2004  4:11 PM
Posted by NYK3:

I will feel sorry for him, money aside this guy is still a human being and a very decent human being, you dont find guys much nicer than him. He has feelings too and to be booed by your home crowd at a FREE PRACTICE is terrible imo, and it happened more than once, it happened during the player introductions and it happened when 2 kids asked him a question. Allan Houston isnt one of these spoiled ******* millionaires that are ALL AROUND THE LEAGUE, he's a great guy on the court and off the court and in no way did he deserved to be booed.

Its also crazy to me that Kobe Bryant gets cheered in LA for cheating on his wife (and maybe committing rape, something we'll never know) but some fans in NY boo Allan Houston. MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL

Excellent point!
Panos
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10/18/2004  4:19 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by NYK3:

I will feel sorry for him, money aside this guy is still a human being and a very decent human being, you dont find guys much nicer than him. He has feelings too and to be booed by your home crowd at a FREE PRACTICE is terrible imo, and it happened more than once, it happened during the player introductions and it happened when 2 kids asked him a question. Allan Houston isnt one of these spoiled ******* millionaires that are ALL AROUND THE LEAGUE, he's a great guy on the court and off the court and in no way did he deserved to be booed.

Its also crazy to me that Kobe Bryant gets cheered in LA for cheating on his wife (and maybe committing rape, something we'll never know) but some fans in NY boo Allan Houston. MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL

Excellent point!

Agreed. I wonder when we'll hear the boos or jeers from OTHER fans
in the league when Lakers are on the road.
Bizzy211
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10/18/2004  4:20 PM
Those fans that booed are what you call bandwaggon fans (we have more obscene words than bandwaggon, but this is a family site). Now that Jamal Crawford is here, they are ready to write Allan Houston off.
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TheloniusMonk
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10/18/2004  4:20 PM
Posted by Panos:

Again not justifying the booing, but...

Just to sketch out the magnitude by which Houston is overpaid,
as of last year, he was tied for fourth for the highest paid
player, while being the 13th-16th best SHOOTING GUARD (not player,
he was probably about the 60th (wild guess) or so best player)
in the league. (see http://www.insidehoops.com/nbasalaries.shtml for last year's salaries).


Now granted there are other players in the league with such
out of whack valuations. See Penny, and last year KVH and McDyess,
just to name a few we are familiar with. I suppose the fans
take it more personally since we signed Houston to that money
and they feel duped that he didn't live up to the expectations.
The other guys we brought in knowing they were over-paid.
Dunno...

Ok, now was this magically contracted that he signed suppose to give him a new set of legs? Make him grow two inches? Make him be able to dunk over players (ala Kobe, TMac, VC)? Was it suppose to give him the God given court vision and instincts of Jason Kidd......or maybe Magic Johnson? Was it suppose to make him go from averaging 20 plus to 30 plus like Michael Jordan? I mean, besides him playing hard, what do you feel he didn't live up to.....THAT HE COULD HAVE DONE ALONE? Don't say win a title becasue even Jordan couldn't do that alone. Name some things that were suppose to magically change after this contract. Was he suppose to be given the defensive instincts of Ron Artest upon the signing of this contract? I don't get what you see that HE could have done differently. Not Scott Layden.....him.

And please don't say it has to due with the specific amount of money he makes. People booooed Ewing and he didn't have a 100 million dollar contract. And their reasons for booing Ewing sounds a lot like people's reasons for booing h20.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Nalod
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10/18/2004  4:26 PM

Checketts signed H20 to his first contract. The one with an opt out provision. The reason is checketts promised him that if he could,and when he could, he would pay him more. It was a handshake deal that Layden was forced to honor. DOlan his owner honored that deal.

It was more than anyone expected and it sucked, but that is how that played on.

Layden made some real bone head moves and did not futher the franchise, but he also gets blamed for a few things that were not his doing, but had to deal with.

Say a lot about him, and he was an introverted man, but he did not complain about anybody, especially the mess That was undoiing Ewing and rice. But blaming him for everything is easy, but not always accurate.

Why bring it up? The emotion of fans are always blurting a frustrated "somebody sucks" and need to ride someone.

Guys like Marbury and Crawford are getting more love then they deserve, while our soldiers Kurt and Allan get nothing for hanging in there. We throw all kinds of exuses to Miss Gazy, but can't throw any love to Allan who has done nothing but act in a first class manner on and off off the court.

It was said the garden was mostly filled with "hardcore" fans. Well. it might appear some of these guys are alot more fickle and shallow than they strut around spewing about. I guess if you got some badazz cred like Miss gazy, its more appealing than someone like Allan.

Some of you have choosen and taken sides. ANd you have shown us your motto!
Bonn1997
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10/18/2004  4:35 PM
Posted by Nalod:


Checketts signed H20 to his first contract. The one with an opt out provision. The reason is checketts promised him that if he could,and when he could, he would pay him more. It was a handshake deal that Layden was forced to honor. DOlan his owner honored that deal.

It was more than anyone expected and it sucked, but that is how that played on.

Layden made some real bone head moves and did not futher the franchise, but he also gets blamed for a few things that were not his doing, but had to deal with.

Handshake deals are meaningless. Ask Carlos Boozer. Ask David Wells (who made a handshake deal with the Diamondbacks before deciding to go the Yankees instead). Ask Vranes (who was promised a roster spot for the full year by Layden and then quickly waived by Isiah).
Panos
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10/18/2004  4:36 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by Panos:

Again not justifying the booing, but...

Just to sketch out the magnitude by which Houston is overpaid,
as of last year, he was tied for fourth for the highest paid
player, while being the 13th-16th best SHOOTING GUARD (not player,
he was probably about the 60th (wild guess) or so best player)
in the league. (see http://www.insidehoops.com/nbasalaries.shtml for last year's salaries).


Now granted there are other players in the league with such
out of whack valuations. See Penny, and last year KVH and McDyess,
just to name a few we are familiar with. I suppose the fans
take it more personally since we signed Houston to that money
and they feel duped that he didn't live up to the expectations.
The other guys we brought in knowing they were over-paid.
Dunno...

Ok, now was this magically contracted that he signed suppose to give him a new set of legs? Make him grow two inches? Make him be able to dunk over players (ala Kobe, TMac, VC)? Was it suppose to give him the God given court vision and instincts of Jason Kidd......or maybe Magic Johnson? Was it suppose to make him go from averaging 20 plus to 30 plus like Michael Jordan? I mean, besides him playing hard, what do you feel he didn't live up to.....THAT HE COULD HAVE DONE ALONE? Don't say win a title becasue even Jordan couldn't do that alone. Name some things that were suppose to magically change after this contract. Was he suppose to be given the defensive instincts of Ron Artest upon the signing of this contract? I don't get what you see that HE could have done differently. Not Scott Layden.....him.

And please don't say it has to due with the specific amount of money he makes. People booooed Ewing and he didn't have a 100 million dollar contract. And their reasons for booing Ewing sounds a lot like people's reasons for booing h20.

I'm not saying there is anything that he could have done to be
better. He is what he is, and he works hard as far as I know.
Just saying there is a large discrepancy and the fans feel they
are not getting what they are paying for. Its not his fault.
It's managements. Fans are just lashing out at him.
Never said he deserved it. Just explaining it.
Panos
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10/18/2004  4:40 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

[clip...]
And please don't say it has to due with the specific amount of money he makes. People booooed Ewing and he didn't have a 100 million dollar contract. And their reasons for booing Ewing sounds a lot like people's reasons for booing h20.

And I have no explanation for the booing of Ewing... That is
just inexplicable to me. Here's a guy that holds almost all the
statistical records of all time for the Knicks in all categories,
brought the team to the playoffs for how many years straight, and
then they boo him? I don't know why.
Silverfuel
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10/18/2004  4:48 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I dont feel sorry of any athlete in pro sports because he gets booed. Its just a matter class to me. Booing a guy rehabbing his knee... why? What message are you trying to send to Allen Houston by booing him? Please Silver or whoever else that hates this guys PLEASE just answer me that ONE question. Whats the message?
You guys off all should know I was not a Houston fan even when he dropped the 50 points. It has nothing to do with him being injuerd because I was on him long before that. I am just tired of going over this with people. Like I said before, Houston fans have me beaten. I just cannot deal with the waste of time anymore.

Another reason I am going to stop arguing is because the media and the teams management heard what they needed to hear. Arguing with people here will not change a damn thing. The team is moving in the right direction now and he boo's made sure it will keep moving in that direction.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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10/18/2004  6:28 PM
The team is moving in the right direction now and he boo's made sure it will keep moving in that direction.
That's a great point; the team obviously would have made a 180 degree turn and moved into the wrong direction had you and other fans not booed. You saved the franchise. Thanks man!
Silverfuel
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10/18/2004  11:25 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

That's a great point; the team obviously would have made a 180 degree turn and moved into the wrong direction had you and other fans not booed. You saved the franchise. Thanks man!
What exactly is your problem? Are you really not able to comprehend the fact that there are Knick fans (die hard knick fans) that might not subscribe to your philosophy?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bizzy211
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10/18/2004  11:32 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by fishmike:

I dont feel sorry of any athlete in pro sports because he gets booed. Its just a matter class to me. Booing a guy rehabbing his knee... why? What message are you trying to send to Allen Houston by booing him? Please Silver or whoever else that hates this guys PLEASE just answer me that ONE question. Whats the message?
You guys off all should know I was not a Houston fan even when he dropped the 50 points. It has nothing to do with him being injuerd because I was on him long before that. I am just tired of going over this with people. Like I said before, Houston fans have me beaten. I just cannot deal with the waste of time anymore.

Another reason I am going to stop arguing is because the media and the teams management heard what they needed to hear. Arguing with people here will not change a damn thing. The team is moving in the right direction now and he boo's made sure it will keep moving in that direction.

No, you are a Kobe Bryant Fan!!! Just kidding.
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Bonn1997
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10/18/2004  11:51 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Bonn1997:

That's a great point; the team obviously would have made a 180 degree turn and moved into the wrong direction had you and other fans not booed. You saved the franchise. Thanks man!
What exactly is your problem? Are you really not able to comprehend the fact that there are Knick fans (die hard knick fans) that might not subscribe to your philosophy?
I guess you have trouble accepting a simple thank you

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 10/18/2004 23:54:37]
PhilinLA
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10/19/2004  1:49 PM
It's not really Houston's fault that he got booed. It's more a condemnation of the idiocy that gave a max deal to a guy who can't get his own shot. Now that things have changed, one of these things is not like the others and it's Allan. I never liked him much and think he's softer than three ply Charmin, but I wouldn't boo him and we're just gonna have to tough out his stupid deal.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
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