If so why should we pick vassel?

pick up franks contract for cheap. 3&D wing who can pass some and get to the basket a bit.

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

I’d be fine with either Vassell or Nesmith. The bottom line is Knicks need to add high percentage shooters to compliment RJ, Frank and Mitch

Nalod wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Correction. Next season.

If so why should we pick vassel?

pick up franks contract for cheap. 3&D wing who can pass some and get to the basket a bit.

The promise of a rookie and the no miss video’s with cool soundtracks enhance the value. We hypothesize the worst of frank over this 2.5 seasons and with no confidence think he cannot do better going forward while the concept mixed with hope of a college player gives us something to look forward to. Hate frank, new guy gonna be great. Then pair him with a veteran and not consider his character and think the rook will assimilate regardless of the vet motivation or not to “mentor”.
Don’t forget that not every young Turk wants t be Mentored! He might say he does because a microphone is stoc in his face, but he might think he all that and wants his own sneaker.

Good thoughtful points

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

Disagree. The only type of players Frank can be matched up with, at this point, is solid shooters. None of which RJ or anyone else on the current roster represent. He would also match up well with a guy like Harden or Luca. SF that can handle the point on offense. But then again, those guys would benefit more from a 3pt threat. Think that will be the issue with Frank in the future if he does not improve. He will be just be a role defender off the bench. Judging by a couple of games last year, think he has the potential and can be more of an impact on offense. If he doesn't, fear he will have trouble finding teams to find a significant role for him.

That's a fair take on Frankie in general.

However, Frankie does perform better with Dotson who was just a marginally better than average shooter last year largely due to recovery from shoulder surgery. That combination won games. And RJ, like Frankie, is a work-in-progress. Ellington *should have been* a sharp-shooter. Bullock has yet to play a full season. Iggy is a shooter.

But I get your point. Thibs has got to sort this out.

Vassel is one of a handful of players who would be great picks 1-8, IMO.

I think there's an unfortunate myopia regarding PG scoring. There are 14 other options to get points from. And Rubio and others who are not heavy scorers succeed.

I get the foaming at the mouth for scoring, I just don't think picking on a world-class defender is a reasonable argument.

HofstraBBall wrote:This reminds me of the SNL skit with Bill Swerski's Superfans.

Yes Frank is better than Vassel, Jordan, LBJ, Bryant and can knock out a grizzly with one punch!

Back to real world. Are we basing this on upside or current ability? One can argue that if we take Vassel at 8 we are projecting him to be at a much higher level by year three than what Frank is currently at. Which is a good defender with size and a project with potential. Hopefully, whoever we pick at 8 will turn out to be much better than Frank in his third year.

It was late at night when I posted that Comparison thought lol. I am a frank fan. He will never be an engine on this team but I feel he has a role.

xblvdels3 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

Disagree. The only type of players Frank can be matched up with, at this point, is solid shooters. None of which RJ or anyone else on the current roster represent. He would also match up well with a guy like Harden or Luca. SF that can handle the point on offense. But then again, those guys would benefit more from a 3pt threat. Think that will be the issue with Frank in the future if he does not improve. He will be just be a role defender off the bench. Judging by a couple of games last year, think he has the potential and can be more of an impact on offense. If he doesn't, fear he will have trouble finding teams to find a significant role for him.

So you believe Frank should be primary ball handler instead of secondary one?

Jumping in on this conversation. I would say secondary ball handler. Swiss army wing. Third string pg.

Then there's no reason why we can't have both. Teams are always the look for 3&D players. If Vassel is the best player available, Frank shouldn't stop us from taking him. But if we do draft Vassel, I'm guessing it will probably be Dot's spot that he fills.

BigDaddyG wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

Disagree. The only type of players Frank can be matched up with, at this point, is solid shooters. None of which RJ or anyone else on the current roster represent. He would also match up well with a guy like Harden or Luca. SF that can handle the point on offense. But then again, those guys would benefit more from a 3pt threat. Think that will be the issue with Frank in the future if he does not improve. He will be just be a role defender off the bench. Judging by a couple of games last year, think he has the potential and can be more of an impact on offense. If he doesn't, fear he will have trouble finding teams to find a significant role for him.

So you believe Frank should be primary ball handler instead of secondary one?

Jumping in on this conversation. I would say secondary ball handler. Swiss army wing. Third string pg.

Then there's no reason why we can't have both. Teams are always the look for 3&D players. If Vassel is the best player available, Frank shouldn't stop us from taking him. But if we do draft Vassel, I'm guessing it will probably be Dot's spot that he fills.

I agree. I like Dot though. Fills the role of a substitute shooting guard who gives effort on defense. I think if he was given 35 minutes he would give a team about 20 ppg. But he may be a casualty depending on who we draft and if his market is good this off season. He will draw interest. He is a solid substitute.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

Disagree. The only type of players Frank can be matched up with, at this point, is solid shooters. None of which RJ or anyone else on the current roster represent. He would also match up well with a guy like Harden or Luca. SF that can handle the point on offense. But then again, those guys would benefit more from a 3pt threat. Think that will be the issue with Frank in the future if he does not improve. He will be just be a role defender off the bench. Judging by a couple of games last year, think he has the potential and can be more of an impact on offense. If he doesn't, fear he will have trouble finding teams to find a significant role for him.

So you believe Frank should be primary ball handler instead of secondary one?

Can only see him as the primary ball handler on a strong offensive and good shooting team. Unless they have a Point forward type of player in the lineup. Do not see a team using him as a starting wing. His outside shot/offensive game is just not going to produce enough offense at a traditionally strong offensive position. Some forget that the type of offense he was chosen for no longer exists. With that said, feel that he has gotten a lot better. My point was more to address the idea that a team would be able to justify him as a primary PG or Wing if his offense does not improve. His game right now is that of a role defender off the bench. Which he does extremely well. Will that change? I think it can. If he continues to improve offensively and continues to attack the rim. As mentioned, there were several games that he showed glimpses of that last year.

I’m hoping so. He showed glimpses last season.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I agree. You beat me to my next statement. If this is the case you should put Nesmith In front of Vassel for our pick.

Knicks need to draft the BPA. But in terms of fit. Both Vassell and Frank would work paired with what RJ is supposed to become. RJ is a bull that wants to attack the rim and has enough passing chops to create for others off his penetration. Since Frank can guard PGs. Both him and Vassell could be solid 3&D compliments toward that if Frank continues to improve his 3pt stroke.

Disagree. The only type of players Frank can be matched up with, at this point, is solid shooters. None of which RJ or anyone else on the current roster represent. He would also match up well with a guy like Harden or Luca. SF that can handle the point on offense. But then again, those guys would benefit more from a 3pt threat. Think that will be the issue with Frank in the future if he does not improve. He will be just be a role defender off the bench. Judging by a couple of games last year, think he has the potential and can be more of an impact on offense. If he doesn't, fear he will have trouble finding teams to find a significant role for him.

That's a fair take on Frankie in general.

However, Frankie does perform better with Dotson who was just a marginally better than average shooter last year largely due to recovery from shoulder surgery. That combination won games. And RJ, like Frankie, is a work-in-progress. Ellington *should have been* a sharp-shooter. Bullock has yet to play a full season. Iggy is a shooter.

But I get your point. Thibs has got to sort this out.

Vassel is one of a handful of players who would be great picks 1-8, IMO.

I think there's an unfortunate myopia regarding PG scoring. There are 14 other options to get points from. And Rubio and others who are not heavy scorers succeed.

I get the foaming at the mouth for scoring, I just don't think picking on a world-class defender is a reasonable argument.

Agree with the fit Frank has with Dot. Hope we bring Dot back. Feel he is the perfect fit for that scorer off the bench. Reason why I feel that Frank, at this point, is best suited to come off the bench. He would solidify the defense and make up for the deficiencies left by that spot scorer. Who probably has that role because he lacks the multi dimensional game of a starter. Imagine Frank on the Clippers with Lou Williams in that second unit. Also liked when he was matched up with Trier. That will be the question going forward. Can Frank pick up his offensive game. If he does, he will be a solid starter in the league. If he doesn't, he will be coming off the bench with a second unit. If you look at his tenure here, you can see the coaches he has played for felt the same way.

Agree.