* Van Vleet is a really solid player - maybe not a superstar, but the guy is downright effective, makes smart plays, does what he's supposed to do. Does it without mega explosiveness. I was thinking he's a bit like Brogdon (Pacers) - though he now has championship pedigree. Brogdon got around $21m over 4 years from the Pacers. Is Van Vleet really a potential $30m/yr+ sort of player?

* Harris is really good. I still find it amazing that guys like Harris find a way to look like legit NBA threats and former college super stars like Doug McDermott simply don't. Harris is a really impressive wing. Again, no mind-blowing athleticism, but he moves the floor with purpose and makes plays that put pressure on the opposing team.

Other players:
* Jarrett Allen - Look out Mitch - as good as you are, you might not even be the best young center in NY! Allen is actually a few weeks YOUNGER that Mitchell Robinson, and he may be more advanced. He doesn't rely on his athleticism quite as much as Mitch does. And that fro is impressive. While Robinson's FG% is out of this world at 74%... Allen's is still a monster 65%.

* Caris LeVert - I think it's a bit amazing that this guy is playing PG with Kyrie and Dinwiddie out. He's had his injuries over the years and really has flown under the radar. As a 3rd or 4th option on a health Nets team (with Durant), wow. They'll have some serious depth.

Nobody dislikes him, but he plays with 4 other really good starters. To superimpose his performance on knicks might not be as transparent. Why would he leave? Money? Then we have to really over pay him. Then its debilitating to a future to some extent.
I can think of worse moves.

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We need a sticky VanVleet Fleet Street thread.

Nobody dislikes him, but he plays with 4 other really good starters. To superimpose his performance on knicks might not be as transparent. Why would he leave? Money? Then we have to really over pay him. Then its debilitating to a future to some extent.
I can think of worse moves.

Van Fleet is resigning in Toronto.

Personally I think that PG is locked down with Smokes and Peyton. Drafting a young PG means waiting the three to five years already invested in Smokes and Peyton. Both are on the cusp of breaking out, PGs take time to mature - ours are ripened.

And PG is deep with some of the newbies who already have put in their development time.

PF and SF is where we need a talent upgrade. Knox and Randle don't float my boat but it ain't my call.

I should add that Ball will drop through - I hope the Knicks pass on him.

Who is Smokes? Is that Frank? is it DSjr?

Payton is probably not being resigned

PG is our area of greatest need.

Randle is at least an NBA caliber talent.

Frank Ntilikina is still a giant question mark.

DSjr might get released the way he has played.

Who is our potential starter at PG????

If he re-signs with Toronto:
$29,467,800, with 8% annual raises, up to 5 years.

With a new team:
$28,659,250, 5% annual raises, up to 4 years.

Sure, he's expected to stick around with Toronto. The team probably sees him as the eventual heir to Lowry (age 34) as their starting PG (Lowry is signed through the end of 20-21 season).

To pry him away from them, other teams will probably need to overpay, probably closing in on the max.

Nalod wrote:Im curious what Masai does with this. There is a price to which he makes sense for them, and then it gets exceeded.

Knicks sucking for 20 years is not on Thibs or Leon. Vaccaro today intimates you get him because we are who we are. Thibs and Leon don't suck for 20 years. They are looking at it fresh.
If not they should not be here. FVVVVVVVVV not a 29MM player. Not sure he is that on Toronto, and sure as hell won't bring that kind of starpower to NYC with us.
Im not hating on him, just not loving him for 29mm.

raptors are the pinnacle org in the league. ujiri is about keeping the winning culture in place. kyle took him under his wing 3 years ago.

fred is a starter and he started 2nd halfs vs. the warriors last year in the finals. he's a huge part of the culture and the winning. he will re-sign unless he wants to live somewhere else. i would say the odds of him leaving are quite low as he may be the heir apparent to kyle as he continues to get older.

from the knicks POV - the maximum deal they can give any free agent is for 4 years. how long do you think it takes to build a culture? sometimes it happens fast if you have elite management/luck but many times it takes a few years. what's the knicks window? i mean the franhise has the worst culture in all the nba for 20+ years now. even if he is $29 mil/year, he will contribute to changing the franchise around. he is a leader and a winner. the cap space doesn't mean anything when the team is awful. build by getting good solid players and then you can hold out the "starphuch" dream. you just spent $30 mil on 2-3 pf duds last season - fred is a 10x better investment than that.

djsunyc wrote:

Nalod wrote:Im curious what Masai does with this. There is a price to which he makes sense for them, and then it gets exceeded.

Knicks sucking for 20 years is not on Thibs or Leon. Vaccaro today intimates you get him because we are who we are. Thibs and Leon don't suck for 20 years. They are looking at it fresh.
If not they should not be here. FVVVVVVVVV not a 29MM player. Not sure he is that on Toronto, and sure as hell won't bring that kind of starpower to NYC with us.
Im not hating on him, just not loving him for 29mm.

raptors are the pinnacle org in the league. ujiri is about keeping the winning culture in place. kyle took him under his wing 3 years ago.

fred is a starter and he started 2nd halfs vs. the warriors last year in the finals. he's a huge part of the culture and the winning. he will re-sign unless he wants to live somewhere else. i would say the odds of him leaving are quite low as he may be the heir apparent to kyle as he continues to get older.

from the knicks POV - the maximum deal they can give any free agent is for 4 years. how long do you think it takes to build a culture? sometimes it happens fast if you have elite management/luck but many times it takes a few years. what's the knicks window? i mean the franhise has the worst culture in all the nba for 20+ years now. even if he is $29 mil/year, he will contribute to changing the franchise around. he is a leader and a winner. the cap space doesn't mean anything when the team is awful. build by getting good solid players and then you can hold out the "starphuch" dream. you just spent $30 mil on 2-3 pf duds last season - fred is a 10x better investment than that.

we could retain Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Payton & Reggie Bullock- or turn their mediocrity into a solid PG and eliminate a ton of questions for the next 4 years.

I get that giving FVV 4 years and $120M or $100m or $80m is crazy. But money is a resource and we have to spend it to improve. I don't see Giannis or AD coming.

FVV
RJ
Randle
Robinson

That is as solid a 4 as we have had to build with.

Basketball is about having the best five players on the court at any one time.

For too long, we've had a plethora of mediocre players - guys that are 4-9's on another teams roster.

FVV isn't a franchise player, but he can fill the most important gap in our roster- PG.

Let Frank & DSjr and whomever we draft compete for back up minutes.

Unlike this year where Fizbrain started RJ as the PG, we'd be heading into the next season knowing FVV is the PG.