fred van fleet- he is a young and promising point guard who can facilitate and more importantly hit threes which will help give robinson and rj more room to operate and keep the defense honest. he is a scrappy and smart defender that will keep pressure on the opposing point guard. stronger than he looks. tough and can take punishment though it does lead to some injuries. he would be on the same timeline as the other young players and can hold down the starting pg position for years. championship experience as well as a clutch player. makes great decisions. wont have to give up assets to get him and we can make a bigger trade later for the future disgruntled player ( donovan mitchell?). he might wilt like many by ny pressure. he is a great team player but he is just a "piece" and wont necessarily make others better. his style of play can make him injury prone.

cp3- flat out one of the best pg of this generation and known for elevating his team to be better than they are on paper. a leader in every sense of the word who can push young teammates to be the best they can be. great mentor and one of the best facilitator in the game and possibly in the history of the game. defies father time and still at the top of his game at his age. unstoppable floater as well as an automatic mid range game. as clutch as they come. an assassin in close games. still one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. he can irk his teammates too much. he is injury prone with major injuries. we will have to give up some assets which will take away from any advantage we have to trade for a star. he has to slow down eventually and his contract is long for his age. take away a decent chunk of our salary cap.

i think both will do well under coach thibs and i think he would rather have one of these instead of drafting a pg. we might have a clue in october when we draft about what he is thinking. hell, he might want to develop the pgs we have now. however between the two of them, i would rather get van fleet only to preserve our assets for a trade. either one is an improvement from what we have which isnt saying much.

I used to want him - FVV- but I never really watched him. I caught part of him in their game against maimi.

Sorry to discriminate based on looks, but he resembles a rugby player, not a pg. He's short, stocky, but I'm just not seeing it.

If I had to pick between the two - on contract/age alone, I'm going with Fred. Sure, he's not nearly as good. His warts will look bigger on this squad. He's probably not a starting PG, and certainly on this team with our dearth of talent, he'll end up hated by fans and posters here on UK, just like Julius Randle.

I'd really have to understand what our cap looks like when you factor in paying some of our players like Barrett and Robinson to judge one over the other.

CP3 is just playing unreal ball this year. Maybe it's HGH! Maybe he got a new State Farm policy!

I wouldn't need him to play 80 games for us - just 60, and provide some leadership and guidance to the younger players.

But the notion of giving up assets for a player of his age and contract makes me want to puke!

I'd definitely think about FVV, because he opens up a lot of options for us in the draft- suddenly you can look at not drafting a PG, or you could draft Haliburton and play him alongside FVV (fixing the problems with each of them). I love FVV's attitude and clutch play. He's tough, plays way better defence than he should be able to with those short arms and lack of athleticism, and shoots well from 3pt (imagine having a PG that can shoot 3s! When was the last time we had that?!). However, it depends on what other moves we pull off. I wouldn't want us to sign him then not do much else- he's not good enough to lift the team single handedly.

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:It is FVV- VanVleet - how friggin hard is it for people to figure this out!

I used to want him - FVV- but I never really watched him. I caught part of him in their game against maimi.

Sorry to discriminate based on looks, but he resembles a rugby player, not a pg. He's short, stocky, but I'm just not seeing it.

If I had to pick between the two - on contract/age alone, I'm going with Fred. Sure, he's not nearly as good. His warts will look bigger on this squad. He's probably not a starting PG, and certainly on this team with our dearth of talent, he'll end up hated by fans and posters here on UK, just like Julius Randle.

I'd really have to understand what our cap looks like when you factor in paying some of our players like Barrett and Robinson to judge one over the other.

CP3 is just playing unreal ball this year. Maybe it's HGH! Maybe he got a new State Farm policy!

I wouldn't need him to play 80 games for us - just 60, and provide some leadership and guidance to the younger players.

But the notion of giving up assets for a player of his age and contract makes me want to puke!

That's because your not thinking about the impact he will have off the court, in the locker room, in the community.

You also aren't taking into account that CP3, (like Labron and Melo) take immense care of there bodies, spending upwards of a million dollars in personal trainers and chefs to keep them in tip top shape...with technology and sport science involving every day...ARE YOU KIDDING ME

I see CP3 playing at an elite level for at least the next 3 seasons.

I don't! And that is why I think it would be a bad move!

I totally understand the impact he will have on the team - I don't care about the community or off the court stuff - this is NYC - we don't need that.

But on the court, in the locker room - absolutely value and appreciate what he can do, especially seeing his impact on OKC.

But maybe 1 more year at this level or close.

You can't out run father time. Melo hasn't. He thinks he can jump, but he can't.

And at some point, the miles weigh on the body, and there is an injury, or set of nagging hurts and aches.

And having him in street clothes is not the same.

If we had more depth, more developed talent - then taking a swing for him might make sense.

But we're a 20 year lottery team, and we're just maybe showing that we can dig out.

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:It is FVV- VanVleet - how friggin hard is it for people to figure this out!

I used to want him - FVV- but I never really watched him. I caught part of him in their game against maimi.

Sorry to discriminate based on looks, but he resembles a rugby player, not a pg. He's short, stocky, but I'm just not seeing it.

If I had to pick between the two - on contract/age alone, I'm going with Fred. Sure, he's not nearly as good. His warts will look bigger on this squad. He's probably not a starting PG, and certainly on this team with our dearth of talent, he'll end up hated by fans and posters here on UK, just like Julius Randle.

I'd really have to understand what our cap looks like when you factor in paying some of our players like Barrett and Robinson to judge one over the other.

CP3 is just playing unreal ball this year. Maybe it's HGH! Maybe he got a new State Farm policy!

I wouldn't need him to play 80 games for us - just 60, and provide some leadership and guidance to the younger players.

But the notion of giving up assets for a player of his age and contract makes me want to puke!

That's because your not thinking about the impact he will have off the court, in the locker room, in the community.

You also aren't taking into account that CP3, (like Labron and Melo) take immense care of there bodies, spending upwards of a million dollars in personal trainers and chefs to keep them in tip top shape...with technology and sport science involving every day...ARE YOU KIDDING ME

I see CP3 playing at an elite level for at least the next 3 seasons.

I don't! And that is why I think it would be a bad move!

I totally understand the impact he will have on the team - I don't care about the community or off the court stuff - this is NYC - we don't need that.

But on the court, in the locker room - absolutely value and appreciate what he can do, especially seeing his impact on OKC.

But maybe 1 more year at this level or close.

You can't out run father time. Melo hasn't. He thinks he can jump, but he can't.

And at some point, the miles weigh on the body, and there is an injury, or set of nagging hurts and aches.

And having him in street clothes is not the same.

If we had more depth, more developed talent - then taking a swing for him might make sense.

But we're a 20 year lottery team, and we're just maybe showing that we can dig out.

If you don't have the right veterans around, you will be a poor developing franchise which (without question)we most certainly are.

There's no question in my mind that 80% of the roster is gone with in 10 to 12 months, not only that, The Knicks have enough cap flexibility to chase any player in the NBA, and assets to go with it.

Thibs has never coached a team (as a head coach or assistant)without a least one all star...so know that that's going to be a priority.

martin wrote:

Pellscup wrote:almost 20 years later, still no point guard smh

You know what's worse? We started UltimateKnicks in July 2001. Exactly 4 appearances in playoffs with 9 games won TOTAL, only 1 playoff series was won.

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

Pellscup wrote:almost 20 years later, still no point guard smh

You know what's worse? We started UltimateKnicks in July 2001. Exactly 4 appearances in playoffs with 9 games won TOTAL, only 1 playoff series was won.

Before ultimateknicks I used to post on the NYTimes knicks forum, in the late 90s, I think? Yet even though we had all the winning, the forums were just as full of despair And fury as these ones “we’re a better team without Ewing” “Ewing always chokes!” “Chris Childs sucks!” “Charlie Ward Sucks!” “Why won’t JVG play Camby/ John Wallace/ <insert rookie name>” “Allan Houston is overpaid!” “LJ is a huge disappointment!” “LJ can’t play next to Ewing” “I can’t believe we traded Oakley! I’m done with this team!”

Yes! I came from there too, along with papabear and others

If there is a PG in the draft who looks like he could be good enough to start, sooner or later. instead of overpaying for a PG, Id rather go that route. Only 2 teams in the last 25 years or so have won with a PG taking up a big chunk of the cap. Spurs with Pops coaching, Duncan taking a discount. And the Cavs with Irving, and LeBron on the squad.

Believe we would be better off either seeing the Knicks develop a PG, or find a competent PG, a consistent PG (not necessarily flashy) who wont break the bank. Put the cap space to use at other positions, improving the bench.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Pellscup wrote:almost 20 years later, still no point guard smh

You know what's worse? We started UltimateKnicks in July 2001. Exactly 4 appearances in playoffs with 9 games won TOTAL, only 1 playoff series was won.

We are coming up on 20 years. I think I joined the day it started right ?

Yes, exactly to the day

Nalod wrote:Neither FV or CP3.
no quick fix. No doubt fans are impatient and yearn for some progress. But......

I sometimes feel like we're in that episode of Seinfeld where George and Jerry are arguing about pitching the pilot show to nbc and arguing about how much of a show about nothing it actually is- the George esq rebuild is literally that we should do nothing - don't sign ANYONE, don't make any move that commits you to ANYTHING beyond a year