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KP is a beast
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TLover
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8/1/2020  1:07 AM
The ineptitude of this organization trading away this guy for peanuts is a travesty..
AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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8/1/2020  1:27 AM
No use crying over spilled milk. KP wanted out, so f—k KP. We just have to see what we get with the two Dallas picks.
Trust the Process
brade07
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8/1/2020  1:41 AM
Assume he spent most of the game matched against a 6'7 opponent. Also they were -11 while he was on the court.
TripleThreat
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8/1/2020  2:47 AM
TLover wrote:The ineptitude of this organization trading away this guy for peanuts is a travesty..

The Knicks weren't left with much choice since Zinger wasn't going to sign an extension with them. That made the trade situation difficult. Zinger is not going to go to a new team and sign a max extension if the trade in place guts his new destination team.

Elite players have unprecedented power to push trades and control what assets move in trades, provided their contract situation gives the team no leverage.

When LBJ signed with the Lakers, that was pretty interesting. They could have traded him a year later and gotten good value for him. He would have been stuck for a couple of seasons. If the Lakers traded him to Atlanta, he'd be stuck. He's also move without his Bird Rights, and a trade resets the BR clock.

The old Sign And Trade format used to work as an informal compensation system for teams losing key free agents. But The Decision ironically forced sweeping changes that killed that.

In effect, LBJ and the fallout of The Decision, over the long term, destroyed the "middle tier" player in terms of compensation. It also caused a reworking of the system that allowed more opportunity for elite players to hold their franchises hostage.

Where the Knicks failed is hiring Phil Jackson. Zinger would have more incentive to stay if the roster around him was better and Jackson just found a way to **** it all up. He inherited a bad situation ( not his fault) but made it a point to make every already bad situation worse ( his fault)

At the end of the day, if you don't see it as an honor to put on that beloved Knicks jersey, then get the **** out.

Clean
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8/1/2020  3:05 AM
Remember he always starts the season strong. The Mavs definitely benefited from the pandemic break.
smackeddog
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8/1/2020  3:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2020  3:41 AM
Apparently Trey Burke is also a beast (31 points 6 assists) and Tim Jr is a beast (24pts 5 rebounds). Melo is a beast!

Can we have new threads every time an ex Knick has a good game- it NEVER gets old!

ESOMKnicks
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8/1/2020  7:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2020  7:12 AM
TripleThreat wrote:Losing Zinger could set this team back a decade. It's a hard truth, but it's the truth.

I do not see this as quite so dramatic. Teams get set back by decades by doing three things:

1) Giving up high draft picks
2) Locking up into large and long contracts with players who do not deserve them
3) Giving up a top 10-20 player without adequate compensation

The KP trade does not check the first two points for NYK, quite the opposite. Whether the third point applies is arguable.

Here is my view: suppose NYK somehow work it out with KP and he stays. Gets a 5-year max contract. Which pretty much locks us into the 2018-19 team for several years, with some small chance of improving the roster once THJr's contract comes off the books. At best this is a second-round-of-the-playoffs team, provided everyone is healthy. More likely: not good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs, not bad enough to get high draft picks. We probably still get RJ, but that's about it.

Do not get me wrong, I agree that we ARE in a worse place now, but we also have more flexibility to do something interesting, whereas with KP we would be condemned to years of mediocrity with limited hope for a breakthrough and contention. Why? Because KP may or may not be a top 20 player in this league. But I do not see him as the best player on a championship-caliber team. And that is what he would have been on the Knicks had he stayed, sans the championship caliber.

And let's also remember that how well KP would recover from a pretty serious injury was a major question mark back then. Dallas was taking a huge gamble, first with the trade, then with the max contract for KP. We took a gamble on DSJr improving and on luring top-flight FAs in the summer. Dallas may have won its gamble, we may have lost ours, that's life. Better luck next time.

NYKBocker
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8/1/2020  7:13 AM
Fuck KP and the horse he rode on. Fuck his brother too.
MS
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8/1/2020  8:17 AM
Completely fair. 39 and 16, 5 players in the league can have a night like that.

The trade was garbage, everything is salvageable. You really trust anything that comes out of this organization to cover their ass. We would be in business with KP, Mitch and RJ. We can’t do anything right ever. It’s not that hard to put together a good team. I still have no idea why we didn’t trade Morris for Kuzma and Green instead of a shifty first round pick.

It’s the same **** all the time, amnesty Noah, blow 5MM of cap space for two more years instead of him being off the books this summer.

Christ even Hardaway Was going off. It’s early, but DSJR can barley get double figures without leaving. The team.

GustavBahler
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8/1/2020  8:41 AM
MS wrote:Completely fair. 39 and 16, 5 players in the league can have a night like that.

The trade was garbage, everything is salvageable. You really trust anything that comes out of this organization to cover their ass. We would be in business with KP, Mitch and RJ. We can’t do anything right ever. It’s not that hard to put together a good team. I still have no idea why we didn’t trade Morris for Kuzma and Green instead of a shifty first round pick.

It’s the same **** all the time, amnesty Noah, blow 5MM of cap space for two more years instead of him being off the books this summer.

Christ even Hardaway Was going off. It’s early, but DSJR can barley get double figures without leaving. The team.

Some of you guys keep forgetting what KP's value was back then. A 7'3 injury prone star, coming off major surgery. Still rehabning from that injury when he forces a trade, threatens to go back to Europe. Oh, and he had just been in a brawl in a bar, and rape allegations (no charges).

KP faded by the end of every season as well. Player with lots of questions about his long term and short term health, stamina issues, off the court issues, isnt going to be in high demand.

Teams clearly werent flooding the Knicks with offers. We were lucky to get 2 first rounders, and a look at a player who was projected to go to the next level. Before a multi-generational player showed up. DSJr has had his health issues as well. Worse than expected, unfortunately.

No, the trade didnt work out as we liked with DSJr. Still have 2 first rounders. Until we see what is done with those picks, All the cap room that trade created, its too early to call the trade, a bust. Way too early.

Knickfury11
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8/1/2020  9:15 AM
NYKBocker wrote:Fuck KP and the horse he rode on. Fuck his brother too.

Haha this is great. As much as it hurt at the time and despite the modest returns we got I’m of the same sentiments.

How many of us would love to don the orange and blue and play at this level for the honour and prestige alone? If KP doesn’t respect this franchise and fans, good riddance!!

Could have been worse- traded to BKN, becomes face of NBA... doohh!

NardDogNation
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8/1/2020  9:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2020  9:48 AM
....I still don't understand the KP-hate. Given everything that happened pre-KP and post-KP, why would anyone trust this bum ass franchise with their career? If we don't begin to address that, history will keep repeating itself as it has for the past 20 years; and likely will under Leon Rose, who I've already lost faith in.

That being said, I wish KP well. His bitch-ass brother can kick rocks but I can't fault a man for wanting better for himself, if he's not being immoral in the process. Afterall he could've been a dope and committed himself to the franchise for the rest of his career like Stephon Marbury and Carmelo Anthony, then be scapegoated for the team's failures.

Nalod
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8/1/2020  11:03 AM
Said it then, say it again..........It was regrettable.
Phil could have traded him for star value but he got fired.
Then he wanted out.
Then his value was shyt. COud we have done better? Not until KP the the floor and showed he was ok.
Yes, it set us back years. Granted Mitch was a bit of luck and might help. Dysfunction leads to Mills dismissal and new era of leadership changes the course.
If we drafted OK4 things would not have been the same.........
But we talking KP who was a bit asset on the court or as trade asset and it all just went bad.
Blame? Have at it. Don’t change a thing. Its “Regrettable” anyway you look at it.
fwk00
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8/1/2020  12:05 PM
Knickfury11 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Fuck KP and the horse he rode on. Fuck his brother too.

Haha this is great. As much as it hurt at the time and despite the modest returns we got I’m of the same sentiments.

How many of us would love to don the orange and blue and play at this level for the honour and prestige alone? If KP doesn’t respect this franchise and fans, good riddance!!

Could have been worse- traded to BKN, becomes face of NBA... doohh!

K[ra]P.

Don't mis this guy for a second. The deal was a steal for the Knicks. Porky was a Negative Nancy while here and will never be better than an ok player. He's anemic in body and mind. So he had a good game after resting for months. Means nothing.

Getting rid of THJ was like winning the lottery. Hated his first stint as a Knick and LOATHED the return.

We have cap space and picks. I'm good with that. Gleeful in fact.

newyorknewyork
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8/1/2020  12:28 PM
Rockets start Covington & PJ Tucker at PF & C. Mavs lost.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
NYKBocker
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8/1/2020  1:24 PM
fwk00 wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Fuck KP and the horse he rode on. Fuck his brother too.
Haha this is great. As much as it hurt at the time and despite the modest returns we got I'm of the same sentiments.

How many of us would love to don the orange and blue and play at this level for the honour and prestige alone? If KP doesn't respect this franchise and fans, good riddance!!

Could have been worse- traded to BKN, becomes face of NBA... doohh!

K[ra]P.

Don't mis this guy for a second. The deal was a steal for the Knicks. Porky was a Negative Nancy while here and will never be better than an ok player. He's anemic in body and mind. So he had a good game after resting for months. Means nothing.

Getting rid of THJ was like winning the lottery. Hated his first stint as a Knick and LOATHED the return.

We have cap space and picks. I'm good with that. Gleeful in fact.

He looks really good because of Luka. Covington blocked his ass on the rim. Fake ass mother****er.

ESOMKnicks
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8/1/2020  4:05 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Trading for Zinger was a good market based decision for Dallas. It might not work out. But the resource management logic behind the deal and extension adds up.

It would be the same for the Knicks in a Mirror Test. It would be a good market based decision but still carry the risk that it might not work out. Something to consider is Dallas could have retraded Zinger after the extension. Not right away, but soon enough to get more value for him than they paid for him. The extension is a push / pull, it can turn into a cap anchor, but it also negates any of Zingers leverage to control his trade destiny.

The goal is to create opportunity against the existing marketplace, not absolute results.

I do not dispute that, in fact, I also hated the trade when it happened. What did I think would have been a fair return for KP? I had visions and schemes of a package for AD + Jrue or something like that, so I was clearly disappointed by what we got at the end. But there are visions without knowledge of the full facts, and then there is reality that hits sooner or later.

At the time the cap space for two max FAs in the summer was seen as real value. In the end we blew that value. Dallas also had more risk tolerance to buy a high-profile player while his value was eroded by an injury. We showed a lack of that type of risk appetite twice: first with KP, then with KD. Not in the least because we had taken chances on oft-injured players before, and that had blown up in our faces. So, the a Mirror Test is a good test, but not if the Mirror gives us clouded visions that had misled us in the past.

Where I am getting to: there are boneheaded trades that look boneheaded right at the time when they are made, and the Knicks, unfortunately, made a fair share of those. But I do not see the KP trade as one of them. There were simply too many unknowns at the time of that trade. Those unknows had to settle down before its outcome could be judged. The way things are settling now, it looks like we are losing. But imagine if Mills and Perry do not pull the trigger, the trade deadline goes by, KP does not return from injury that year, and we are saddled by his cap hold and THJr's contract over the summer, so also no KD/KI/KT. And then we spend the entire year guessing if he is worth re-signing, if he would stay, if his whole bar/rape antics should have been an obvious reason to ship his ass outta here. Not to mention that KP without Doncic, but with a "for sale" sign hanging from his neck, would have been a different (worse) player than the KP we have seen this year. I think Mills and Perry might have been run out of the town a lot sooner in that scenario. Maybe it would have been a good thing.

fitzfarm
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8/1/2020  6:14 PM
First off F U C K KP we were about to hand him the keys to the worlds most famous arena and he couldn’t handle it... he couldn’t handle NYC, raping women, out Partying, trouble staying in game shape...

is he a physical freak yeah, can he dominate if healthy and in shape, yes.

Will he stay in shape and be healthy, no... KP like Yao Ming will be out of the league in less then ten years. Someone at that size can’t last in the NBA physically his body will break down over and over again till he calls it quits .

His consistency is atrocious hence his great games follow by aweful showings, followed by great games usually it flows every ten games .

This break was a godsend for KP he usually is so spent by 60 games that he is practically a waste of space oversized chucker.

This year is probably his best chance at winning a title, and there’s no way he’s getting past LBJ or KL and the clips

houston20
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8/1/2020  6:36 PM
Dallas wouldn't have made the playoffs this year if the warriors and blazers were fully healthy . Dallas is going to get swept by the clippers in the playoffs this year and next year they won't make the playoffs.
TheGame
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8/1/2020  7:58 PM
Again, f—k KP. He is dead to me. No more KP topics. Let’s stick to talking about guys with the heart to want to play for the Knicks.
Trust the Process
KP is a beast

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