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Armondaone
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6/20/2020  8:18 PM
Ok. I haven't posted in a while and was trying tol figure out what the Knicks could strategically do to maximize this summer's G.M. decision. So I said what would be an acceptable draft pick would we want to start thinking of trading back down to get the player we want with the possibility of gaining an additional pick. Assuming we use our pick with the first 2 picks, but say the 3rd or 4th pick would we trade back even to the 6th or 7th and still get talent that helps the team. So now we pick up a 2nd or late 1st?

So what im really asking is, what has better value picking from about the 3rd pick or can we get a
an additional pick while still staying within the lotto, say pick say 6 or 7th pick? Is there that much difference between the 3rd and 7th pick considered this drafts player talent value.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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6/21/2020  10:59 AM
Have to be specific if you want to play this game and find a trade partner who things TRADING UP is the value gain.
While it happens are there more success trading down then up? I support that notion that More picks increase opportunity % of success. Most deals are done draft night as the teams need to have specific players in mind for the trade to go down.
Most drafts have a cut off. I don’t know where it is.
Since we dont know where we pick its a tough call until the lottery is done.
But lets say wiseman is there at 3 or 4 and say ATL is not interested. Then can trade down a sport or two. Say we flip with them and give the either pick. Big price to pay but if you, the GM and your boss by all accounts your director of player personal and scouts are on board with a high conviction that the player is a franchise talent then you do it. Other team might not have the need for that player or have the same conviction/faith.

Why not throw out a scenario? The concept works both ways.
RSparrow2
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6/21/2020  11:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/21/2020  11:46 AM
I'd love to see the Knicks get Haliburton, and I am not the guy that is screaming that we need to draft a PG like a lot of people. I think 5 years out he'll be 1 of 3 that will be All-Star caliber. I've seen him rated as high as #2 overall, I believe I read Golden State has him as #1 PG and #2 player overall. I've also seen him fall outside the top 10. If we get a top 2 pick, I'm definitely trading out if we can get another future #1 plus top 8 pick this year. This draft has few top players imo and I think of those rated highly, over the long haul their careers will fizzle. For the Knicks, I would rate them 1-5 as Toppin, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, Wiseman, all projected to go top 8. Sorry, don't like Ball, a lot of stuff he needs to work on and has the father that comes with him. I'm not a big fan of Edwards either..

btw, the Knicks are weak everywhere imo so we should always draft the best player available, not by position. Barrett can be moved around, jury is still out on Robinson.
NardDogNation
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6/22/2020  10:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2020  10:19 PM
I think I might be inclined to trade the pick under the right circumstances. It's a crapshoot of a draft- even moreso than your average draft- which makes me uneasy to try and get an asset from it. Though, with so many franchises losing money this offseason due to the China fallout and COVID, we might actually get a decent return from a team looking to cut salary. I'd prefer we target established talents that could use a change of scenery/are disgruntled. Aaron Gordon and Devin Booker fit the bill.

I'd do Julius Randle and DSJr (expiring contracts) along with our 2020 pick and both Mav first rounders for Devin Booker.

I'd then try to flip Kevin Knox (and cap space) either directly for Aaron Gordon or find a third team that has assets the Magic want for Knox. The Al-Farouq Aminu contract looks to be especially bad with him injured...maybe taking him back in the trade could help relieve us of having to add as many assets to the deal.

With whatever cap space we have left, I'd look to target Aaron Baynes, Jeff Teague and Joe Harris (in that order). We need vets that can offer leadership and floor-spacing.
wargames
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6/23/2020  1:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/23/2020  1:17 AM
1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
Knickfury11
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6/23/2020  3:03 PM
RSparrow2 wrote:I'd love to see the Knicks get Haliburton, and I am not the guy that is screaming that we need to draft a PG like a lot of people. I think 5 years out he'll be 1 of 3 that will be All-Star caliber. I've seen him rated as high as #2 overall, I believe I read Golden State has him as #1 PG and #2 player overall. I've also seen him fall outside the top 10. If we get a top 2 pick, I'm definitely trading out if we can get another future #1 plus top 8 pick this year. This draft has few top players imo and I think of those rated highly, over the long haul their careers will fizzle. For the Knicks, I would rate them 1-5 as Toppin, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, Wiseman, all projected to go top 8. Sorry, don't like Ball, a lot of stuff he needs to work on and has the father that comes with him. I'm not a big fan of Edwards either..

btw, the Knicks are weak everywhere imo so we should always draft the best player available, not by position. Barrett can be moved around, jury is still out on Robinson.

After much deliberation I have Haliburton as my top PG in the draft. The only issue I have is that quirky jump shot!! His passing and defence are very impressive, not the most athletic gifted of players. Almost like a modern day Mark Jackson.
knicks1248
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6/24/2020  9:58 AM
wargames wrote:1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

Seriously, you like how that's been going for the last 25 yrs

We haven't resign a rookie in 30 yrs, so who exactly are we developing that you seem so comfortable going that route.

The Knicks need ready made players.

The only thing young players develop around here is bad habits and losing basketball.

let be honest here, IN YOUR LIFE TIME, the only time the knicks have been good is with a mostly veteran roster

ES
wargames
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6/25/2020  6:37 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

Seriously, you like how that's been going for the last 25 yrs

We haven't resign a rookie in 30 yrs, so who exactly are we developing that you seem so comfortable going that route.

The Knicks need ready made players.

The only thing young players develop around here is bad habits and losing basketball.

let be honest here, IN YOUR LIFE TIME, the only time the knicks have been good is with a mostly veteran roster

Seriously you like the result of knicks going after ready made players over the last 20 years? The peak Knicks since 1999 has won one playoff series.

It’s time to try a different route. Even getting ready made “Stars” is going to mean the youth developed enough that we can trade them for one.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
Nalod
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6/25/2020  12:21 PM
Rain man knows what he knows and can’t see beyond his nose. Simple.
knicks1248
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6/26/2020  9:51 AM
wargames wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

Seriously, you like how that's been going for the last 25 yrs

We haven't resign a rookie in 30 yrs, so who exactly are we developing that you seem so comfortable going that route.

The Knicks need ready made players.

The only thing young players develop around here is bad habits and losing basketball.

let be honest here, IN YOUR LIFE TIME, the only time the knicks have been good is with a mostly veteran roster

Seriously you like the result of knicks going after ready made players over the last 20 years? The peak Knicks since 1999 has won one playoff series.

It’s time to try a different route. Even getting ready made “Stars” is going to mean the youth developed enough that we can trade them for one.

So what route should we go? because young players don't win games, Thats a FACT, and what happens when you lose a lot of games..MORE CHANGES, LESS STABILITY, young players lose confidence, locker room divided.

You have to put a winning product on the floor. Stop playing young guys who don't earn PT

ES
TripleThreat
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7/12/2020  1:04 AM
Armondaone wrote:Ok. I haven't posted in a while and was trying tol figure out what the Knicks could strategically do to maximize this summer's G.M. decision.


Do nothing.

Trading back only becomes viable depending on who falls and I suspect teams will only move up for Haliburton/Hayes. The problem is the draft is generally a weak one and going into Tier 3 of the first round ( basically dropping from 6 to whatever) looks to have massive diminishing returns

I keep hearing off book that the Warriors want to move back and are looking at the Knicks spot in the draft.

Trading up is more likely an option than trading back and neither shows good risk/reward.

While it's better to pick higher any chance you get, the Knicks are actually in a pretty decent draft position. They are close enough to grab a surprise drop ( I'm not a fan of Wiseman, but guy could tumble farther than people think) but high enough not to get trapped in that Tier 3 limbo zone where pick 9-15 become a blur.

If the Warriors want to trade with you, you should hang up the phone.
TheGame
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7/12/2020  9:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2020  10:20 AM
Knickfury11 wrote:
RSparrow2 wrote:I'd love to see the Knicks get Haliburton, and I am not the guy that is screaming that we need to draft a PG like a lot of people. I think 5 years out he'll be 1 of 3 that will be All-Star caliber. I've seen him rated as high as #2 overall, I believe I read Golden State has him as #1 PG and #2 player overall. I've also seen him fall outside the top 10. If we get a top 2 pick, I'm definitely trading out if we can get another future #1 plus top 8 pick this year. This draft has few top players imo and I think of those rated highly, over the long haul their careers will fizzle. For the Knicks, I would rate them 1-5 as Toppin, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, Wiseman, all projected to go top 8. Sorry, don't like Ball, a lot of stuff he needs to work on and has the father that comes with him. I'm not a big fan of Edwards either..

btw, the Knicks are weak everywhere imo so we should always draft the best player available, not by position. Barrett can be moved around, jury is still out on Robinson.

After much deliberation I have Haliburton as my top PG in the draft. The only issue I have is that quirky jump shot!! His passing and defence are very impressive, not the most athletic gifted of players. Almost like a modern day Mark Jackson.

I read somewhere that Haliburton has been working out and adding weight. That will help him, but honestly, after reviewing videos of the guy, he has absolutely no ability to take people off the dribble (other than on fastbreaks), and his much hyped defense is only so-so in regards to pick and rolls, as he has trouble getting around screens. Hayes looks like a better prospect to me, and Ball is better than both of them. Yes, Ball is going to require two years to grow into his body and develop his BB IQ, but neither Hayes nor Haliberton has Balls' ability to create off the dribble and score. I have the pgs ranked Ball, Hayes, and then Haliburton. I also would not mind taking Vassell if we pick in the 7-9 range. Vassell would finally give us a 3 and D small forward who can open the floor for RJ while also adding to our defensive intensity.

Trust the Process
stanleybostitch
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7/12/2020  10:57 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

Seriously, you like how that's been going for the last 25 yrs

We haven't resign a rookie in 30 yrs, so who exactly are we developing that you seem so comfortable going that route.

The Knicks need ready made players.

The only thing young players develop around here is bad habits and losing basketball.

let be honest here, IN YOUR LIFE TIME, the only time the knicks have been good is with a mostly veteran roster

Seriously you like the result of knicks going after ready made players over the last 20 years? The peak Knicks since 1999 has won one playoff series.

It’s time to try a different route. Even getting ready made “Stars” is going to mean the youth developed enough that we can trade them for one.

So what route should we go? because young players don't win games, Thats a FACT, and what happens when you lose a lot of games..MORE CHANGES, LESS STABILITY, young players lose confidence, locker room divided.

You have to put a winning product on the floor. Stop playing young guys who don't earn PT

It worked out well for Golden State. They drafted youth and sucked for a few years. It worked out well for the Celts. They drafted youth and sucked and now are good. It worked out for Philly, drafted youth and sucked then got good. It worked out for the Bucks. It's gonna work out for the Pels. Patience grasshopper, patience.

The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
wargames
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7/12/2020  11:11 AM
stanleybostitch wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:1) draft one of Haliburton, Hayes, Ball, Deni, or Okoro
2) throw a poison pill Max at Ingram And hope the Pelicans blink
3) if Pelicans keep Ingram (most likely scenario), use cap space to get assets

Develop the youth

Seriously, you like how that's been going for the last 25 yrs

We haven't resign a rookie in 30 yrs, so who exactly are we developing that you seem so comfortable going that route.

The Knicks need ready made players.

The only thing young players develop around here is bad habits and losing basketball.

let be honest here, IN YOUR LIFE TIME, the only time the knicks have been good is with a mostly veteran roster

Seriously you like the result of knicks going after ready made players over the last 20 years? The peak Knicks since 1999 has won one playoff series.

It’s time to try a different route. Even getting ready made “Stars” is going to mean the youth developed enough that we can trade them for one.

So what route should we go? because young players don't win games, Thats a FACT, and what happens when you lose a lot of games..MORE CHANGES, LESS STABILITY, young players lose confidence, locker room divided.

You have to put a winning product on the floor. Stop playing young guys who don't earn PT

It worked out well for Golden State. They drafted youth and sucked for a few years. It worked out well for the Celts. They drafted youth and sucked and now are good. It worked out for Philly, drafted youth and sucked then got good. It worked out for the Bucks. It's gonna work out for the Pels. Patience grasshopper, patience.

Exactly..... Knicks need to value the youth more and take advantage of teams that want to go the opposite direction. We got two really good pieces in RJ and Mitch. Let’s build around that.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
Jimbo5
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7/16/2020  11:27 AM
If we end up hiring Thibs as the head coach what if we have a starting line up that looks like this?

For the draft we take Deni for our high pick, Desmon Bane with one of the other picks. For the free agents we can sign Gallo and Aron Baynes.

Starting Line up:

PG Frank
SG RJ
SF Deni
PF Gallo
C Mitch

Bench

PG DSJ
SG Desmon Banes/Iggy
SF Knox
PF Randle
C Baynes

We wont have a dominant point guard in the line up but all 3 players (Frank,RJ,Deni) can share the PG duties. That same line up can have 3 scorers, if Deni's outside shooting from his last few games carries over to the NBA, we will have 2 players in Gallo and Deni to space the floor. That same line up Also have 3 good defenders, and Gallo's defense is not that bad.

As for our bench, maybe we can outscore the opposing teams 2nd five with a line up with DSJ, Randle and knox. Maybe Baynes and Iggy can provide some toughness to the 2nd 5. Under Thibs i think even with that 2nd 5, their defense can hold its own.

I think its a realistic plan from the draft picks to the free agency signing. Nothing that will push us to contention but i think its a line up that will be fun to watch!
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