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Tim Thomas challenges Kenyon Martin to a fight in a boxing ring
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toodarkmark
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10/5/2004  1:20 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Glad to see that Tim has matured over the offseason. The guy is an absolute joke. His attitude just makes the VH deal even worse.

Well this training camp is off to an auspicious start. Isiah hates Shandon. Shandon hates Isiah. Timmy is still a baby. Isiah still wants to trade Kurt even though the extension he gave him makes that extremely difficult. This is going to be a fun season.

You really should find another team to watch. Maybe you can be a Golden State Warriors fan or something.
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OldFan
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10/5/2004  1:51 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:
Posted by toodarkmark:

Wow I really think you guys are missing the point here. THis isn't pathetic at all and is a damn good thing. The knock on Tim Thomas is he had all the talent in the world but no motivation. Now he calls out one of the leagues top 10 PF's (the reason he calls out Martin is to rise to Martin's level, who wants to get to Collins?), he trains hard all summer, and wants to destroy NJ and show he's a force in the league? And you guys start sniffling about it?

And going to sports is like going to war. Sorry you don't like the reference CTFan, but conceptually sports and war are very similar. Pat Riley preached the Art of War to both the Lakers and Knicks during their successful runs, so stop being so sensitive.

I know war references are a part of sports that aren't going away, so I'll drop that point. I was mostly just mad that TT continues to talk about this instead of takling about beating KMart and/or Collins where it counts: on a basketball court. As BRIGGS said, we need TT to be a big part of our offense, or we need him to be gone. I could care less about his fighting skills. TT will have a valuable expiring contract next year and is one of the team's more marketable assets. If he doesn't distinguish himself this year, he will most likely be gone.

I guess I come from a different environment and see it differently. When I play on the courts in Brooklyn or Manhatten, you have to be strong and ready to fight. The weak players always dwindle under pressure. I like to see players play the way I love. Charles Oakley, John Starks, A Mason. To me these were NY Players. And I think Tim Thomas starting out angry, talking tough, trying to intimidate off the court, and taking things seriously and with passion excites me greatly.

You're comparing apples and oranges - talking tough on the court is no t the same as talking tough to reports. Talking tough to reporters is like coming off the court and telling the spectators how tough you are.

Comparing Thomas to Oakley, Starks and Mason is an insult to the trio. Oakley, Starks and Mason weren't tough because they did a lot of talking they were tough because the played tough. TT has been in the league too long and played too weak to be talking tough.

I'll also point out that the last time the Knicks actually won a championship they didn't have anyone who talked tough. In general talk is cheap and nine times out of ten more of a distraction then a benefit and it's a joke for someone who plays as soft as TT to talk tough.
diderotn
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10/5/2004  2:17 PM
Can you all please give the man a chance to prove that he can't deliver before judging him?????
The true Knickabocker..........
newyorknewyork
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10/5/2004  2:26 PM
Tim Thomas is a player who steps up his game late in the game and in the playoffs. That speaks a lot of his character to me. I think the only soft part of his game is the fact that he doesn't rebound like he should for a guy with his size and athletism.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Bonn1997
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10/5/2004  2:33 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by islesfan:

Glad to see that Tim has matured over the offseason. The guy is an absolute joke. His attitude just makes the VH deal even worse.

Well this training camp is off to an auspicious start. Isiah hates Shandon. Shandon hates Isiah. Timmy is still a baby. Isiah still wants to trade Kurt even though the extension he gave him makes that extremely difficult. This is going to be a fun season.

You really should find another team to watch. Maybe you can be a Golden State Warriors fan or something.
Big LOL! Good advice
diderotn
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10/5/2004  2:35 PM
I agree. I have been trying to echo that same sentiment to most of our fans, but they are not feeling me. A lot of guys in this league are unable to come through when needed: Peja, Webb, Stackhouse, etc. TT is a keeper.
The true Knickabocker..........
Allanfan20
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10/5/2004  2:42 PM
I just wanna see him improve his defense and rebounding. If he stays at 15ppg, but sky rockets to 8 boards a game, I'm dancing in the streets of my block naked and drunk. But if he scores 17, and doesn't grab more than 6 a game, and can't stop his man, there's something wrong with him, b/c he should be able to play lockdown defense, and grab a ton of boards.

I am totally fine with his offense.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
bernard
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10/5/2004  2:56 PM
I don't get it, how does making some ludicrous threat to a reporter about a boxing match make TT seem tough or hard? If he wants to talk during the game to try to get under someone's skin or get himself psyched up, ok. Works for some guys some times. But a boxing match? With golves on? Talk about Fugazy. That's what ball players do when they're done. Manute Bol.
MS
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10/5/2004  3:11 PM
I can't seem to figure out anyone on this site...This is the most optimistic happy place on earth, from Ariza-TT. Why is everyone so high on him because he is a freak of nature with unbelievable talent and you look at him and see all his potential and all his gifts...This is his seventh year in the league he has not been a an All-Star, not even been considered, he is not a leader he plays no defense and he is soft, SOFT, SOFT....

So what he has been boxing all summer just so he can issue a foolishly childish, Tim Thomas challenge to a player that will hand him his lunch on the court....Guess you is smaller than TT Kenyon Martin

Lets do a list:
Ben Wallace 12.4
Carlos Boozer 11.4
Zach Randolph 10.5
Kenny Thomas 10.1

Antonio Davis 8.4
Walker 8.3
KT 8.3
SAR
NENE
SF who get more
Paul Pierce Rashard Lewis, KVH 7.0 Dunleavy, Maggette, Jeffeson, Artest Stojackivic, Shawm Marion 9.3
Jim Jackson

Al Harrington off the bench
Haslem, Francis, James Evans,

And there is more he isn't in the top 70 in the league, he is sorry, and thats all you need to know about the man....So lets stop putting him in a class with Artest, Peja, Pierce and even Jefferson he will never reach that level
Nalod
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10/5/2004  3:39 PM
not a single teammate responded with either verbal or physical threats. The passive response was telling, especially when you consider that in the '90s the Knicks ruled by intimidation.

I think the response was very telling. His team mates reponse told him they don't care for him. Oak, Patrick earned respect and their mates would go to war for and with them.

Gazy got the "telling" response and he does not like it.

I need more Kool Aid to get over this crap! This is embarassing!

Nalod
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10/5/2004  3:57 PM
Isiah was quoted about KVH's softness: "anyone whom averages over 8 rb's per game is not soft"!

TT must be soft on those terms.

The difference with oak, mason, Patrick etc, was those guys delivered for a long time. They earned a hard reputation with sweat and grit. There were years the knicks were not very talented but grinded it out until the bodys wore out and the bulls talent won. I respected those guys. Throw LJ and even chris dudley. They gave it all.

"gazys rep is he is overpaid". If he was not 6'10 he'd be Shandon!

He ain't spit until he earns the right to talk, and his talk should be his game.

Martin is a punk. A punk whom went the finals two years in a row and gave Detroit a hard time. At the end of the day Martin was prime time and Gaz was on his back popping pain pills spewing words. Gaz got punked and can't accept it. Thats immature. This is bothersome as it shows a consistant pattern of Gazy putting himself before the team.

His challenge should be to to step up his game and let that do the talk! I don't care what motivates him, but these public comments are just sophmoric and not professional.
toodarkmark
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10/5/2004  4:01 PM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:
Posted by toodarkmark:

Wow I really think you guys are missing the point here. THis isn't pathetic at all and is a damn good thing. The knock on Tim Thomas is he had all the talent in the world but no motivation. Now he calls out one of the leagues top 10 PF's (the reason he calls out Martin is to rise to Martin's level, who wants to get to Collins?), he trains hard all summer, and wants to destroy NJ and show he's a force in the league? And you guys start sniffling about it?

And going to sports is like going to war. Sorry you don't like the reference CTFan, but conceptually sports and war are very similar. Pat Riley preached the Art of War to both the Lakers and Knicks during their successful runs, so stop being so sensitive.

I know war references are a part of sports that aren't going away, so I'll drop that point. I was mostly just mad that TT continues to talk about this instead of takling about beating KMart and/or Collins where it counts: on a basketball court. As BRIGGS said, we need TT to be a big part of our offense, or we need him to be gone. I could care less about his fighting skills. TT will have a valuable expiring contract next year and is one of the team's more marketable assets. If he doesn't distinguish himself this year, he will most likely be gone.

I guess I come from a different environment and see it differently. When I play on the courts in Brooklyn or Manhatten, you have to be strong and ready to fight. The weak players always dwindle under pressure. I like to see players play the way I love. Charles Oakley, John Starks, A Mason. To me these were NY Players. And I think Tim Thomas starting out angry, talking tough, trying to intimidate off the court, and taking things seriously and with passion excites me greatly.

You're comparing apples and oranges - talking tough on the court is no t the same as talking tough to reports. Talking tough to reporters is like coming off the court and telling the spectators how tough you are.

Comparing Thomas to Oakley, Starks and Mason is an insult to the trio. Oakley, Starks and Mason weren't tough because they did a lot of talking they were tough because the played tough. TT has been in the league too long and played too weak to be talking tough.

I'll also point out that the last time the Knicks actually won a championship they didn't have anyone who talked tough. In general talk is cheap and nine times out of ten more of a distraction then a benefit and it's a joke for someone who plays as soft as TT to talk tough.

I don't mind a player who talks tough off the court, if the one complaint during their entire career has been they have no passion. If this is an indication that Tim Thomas cares and wants to go out and prove himself, then I am all for it. I don't find it a distraction. I find KVH wilting in the playoffs a distraction, I find R Artest throwing a forearm and getting a technical in the playoffs a distraction (although a welcome one), I find Scottie Pippen refusing to go into a game in the playoffs because he is not taking the last shot a distraction. Not some tough guy talk BEFORE even the pre-season.

I didnt compare Tim to any of them, I was saying how I appreciate them as players and HOPE that Tim Thomas can at least try to match their passion this year. I am hoping that he goes out and proves that he is not all talk, and with all the boxing off season training and a renewed reason to succeed that he has a consistant and strong year.

And BTW they won those championships in the early 70's? It was a much different league at that time. Don't compare apples to oranges ;)
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
OldFan
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10/6/2004  8:11 AM
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:
Posted by toodarkmark:

Wow I really think you guys are missing the point here. THis isn't pathetic at all and is a damn good thing. The knock on Tim Thomas is he had all the talent in the world but no motivation. Now he calls out one of the leagues top 10 PF's (the reason he calls out Martin is to rise to Martin's level, who wants to get to Collins?), he trains hard all summer, and wants to destroy NJ and show he's a force in the league? And you guys start sniffling about it?

And going to sports is like going to war. Sorry you don't like the reference CTFan, but conceptually sports and war are very similar. Pat Riley preached the Art of War to both the Lakers and Knicks during their successful runs, so stop being so sensitive.

I know war references are a part of sports that aren't going away, so I'll drop that point. I was mostly just mad that TT continues to talk about this instead of takling about beating KMart and/or Collins where it counts: on a basketball court. As BRIGGS said, we need TT to be a big part of our offense, or we need him to be gone. I could care less about his fighting skills. TT will have a valuable expiring contract next year and is one of the team's more marketable assets. If he doesn't distinguish himself this year, he will most likely be gone.

I guess I come from a different environment and see it differently. When I play on the courts in Brooklyn or Manhatten, you have to be strong and ready to fight. The weak players always dwindle under pressure. I like to see players play the way I love. Charles Oakley, John Starks, A Mason. To me these were NY Players. And I think Tim Thomas starting out angry, talking tough, trying to intimidate off the court, and taking things seriously and with passion excites me greatly.

You're comparing apples and oranges - talking tough on the court is no t the same as talking tough to reports. Talking tough to reporters is like coming off the court and telling the spectators how tough you are.

Comparing Thomas to Oakley, Starks and Mason is an insult to the trio. Oakley, Starks and Mason weren't tough because they did a lot of talking they were tough because the played tough. TT has been in the league too long and played too weak to be talking tough.

I'll also point out that the last time the Knicks actually won a championship they didn't have anyone who talked tough. In general talk is cheap and nine times out of ten more of a distraction then a benefit and it's a joke for someone who plays as soft as TT to talk tough.

I don't mind a player who talks tough off the court, if the one complaint during their entire career has been they have no passion. If this is an indication that Tim Thomas cares and wants to go out and prove himself, then I am all for it. I don't find it a distraction. I find KVH wilting in the playoffs a distraction, I find R Artest throwing a forearm and getting a technical in the playoffs a distraction (although a welcome one), I find Scottie Pippen refusing to go into a game in the playoffs because he is not taking the last shot a distraction. Not some tough guy talk BEFORE even the pre-season.

I didnt compare Tim to any of them, I was saying how I appreciate them as players and HOPE that Tim Thomas can at least try to match their passion this year. I am hoping that he goes out and proves that he is not all talk, and with all the boxing off season training and a renewed reason to succeed that he has a consistant and strong year.

And BTW they won those championships in the early 70's? It was a much different league at that time. Don't compare apples to oranges ;)

Yes, it was the 70s I'm showing my age...

But - talk has been cheap forever. I too hope TT can play up to his capability - though I don't think I'll ever be a fan.
tkf
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10/6/2004  11:48 AM
Nalod: come on man, TT has more talent in one finger than than Shandon does in his whole body..

And I don't understand the comparison made by someone else of tim thomas to guys like Haslem, and Dunleavy and even Harrington, I mean haslem and dunleavy barely average more rebounds than him I mean haslem by 1 and Dunleavy by not even 1, yet TT averages twice the number of points Haslem does and almost 4 more than Dunleavy, I don't see the point in that comparison, as far as pierce goes, well hell I can make the argument that pierce is as good as any SF in the league...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
technomaster
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10/6/2004  12:58 PM
Well... let's break it down---

TT might have more basketball talent on 1 finger than Shandon, but Shandon Anderson clearly works hard and makes the most of his somewhat limited natural talent--- make no mistake tho, Shandon Anderson is still a great ATHLETE--- look at his above average D and his leaping/dunking.

I don't like this stuff that the media keeps putting out--- TT is a basketball player--- he's allowed to box or do pro wresting a la Rodman/Malone if he wants in his own time.

But yeah... TT's been boxing for a couple of months now--- I'm sure he'd kick an untrained Kenyon Martin's ar$e at that. But this guy might be fixated on the wrong sport.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Kwazimodal
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10/6/2004  1:08 PM
Posted by technomaster:


But yeah... TT's been boxing for a couple of months now--- I'm sure he'd kick an untrained Kenyon Martin's ar$e at that. But this guy might be fixated on the wrong sport.

Well said! Let his game put Kenyon on the deck.
newyorknewyork
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10/6/2004  1:21 PM
Tim Thomas averaged 18pts and 5rebs as the second option to Marbury. Its says 15.8pts and 4.8rebs for his stats but they also count the games where he played like 12mins and only had like 2-4pts and 1-2rebs.

He just like Marbury didn't have training camp with the guys he was playing with. He played with Miluakee basically his whole career and had to adjust to a new team and a bunch of new players who also never were adjusting. And given that he played pretty well for us throughout. I don't get why people are saying he doesn't play hard. He maybe not be a consistant rebounder/defender but that doesn't mean he doesn't play hard.

He maybe have been an underachiever his whole career but last season he playd pretty damn good for us. There is no reason y any knick fan should be bashing him right now. As a knicks fan I support him.
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tkf
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10/6/2004  1:27 PM
true, shandon is a great athlete, I made mention of that before, that is great, maybe he is in the wrong sport, but basketball, he lacks a lot of skills.

As far as TT goes, I don't mind him and his spat with kenyon, this makes the games fun, TT really felt he was dissed and his teamates didn't step up and I can't fault him for that.. AS mentioned when he was the second option to marbs on this team he put up very good numbers, lets see how good Kenyon's numbers are in denver....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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10/6/2004  2:15 PM
Posted by tkf:

Nalod: come on man, TT has more talent in one finger than than Shandon does in his whole body..

And I don't understand the comparison made by someone else of tim thomas to guys like Haslem, and Dunleavy and even Harrington, I mean haslem and dunleavy barely average more rebounds than him I mean haslem by 1 and Dunleavy by not even 1, yet TT averages twice the number of points Haslem does and almost 4 more than Dunleavy, I don't see the point in that comparison, as far as pierce goes, well hell I can make the argument that pierce is as good as any SF in the league...

Those guys don't make 14mil a year. TT is a very good player, but its the expectations and his lack of elevating to the upper tier of players when paid like one. I did not clarify that when I said him being like Shandon.
Rich
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10/14/2004  1:56 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/14/sports/basketball/14knicks.html

The New York Times
October 14, 2004
Tim Thomas Promises All Is Not Forgotten
By STEVE POPPER

GREENBURGH, N.Y., Oct. 13 - It has been almost six months since the Knicks' season ended in disappointment, embarrassment and frustration. Four straight losses to the Nets in the first round of the playoffs underlined the Knicks' place in the one-sided rivalry, and the squawking of Tim Thomas after a flagrant foul in Game 1 that sidelined him for the rest of the series served as a reminder of what might have been.

Since then, the Knicks have added to a roster already rebuilt on the run, and the Nets have cut costs and come away a shadow of the team that won three straight Atlantic Division titles and went twice to the N.B.A. finals.

And Thomas is still angry.

The Knicks and the Nets will meet Thursday night in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., in a meaningless preseason game. But the bitter feelings still float over this game, Thomas having called Jason Collins, who fouled him hard in Game 1 of the series last season, a coward.

But in light of Thomas's recent statements about the former Nets forward Kenyon Martin, Thomas and Collins seem like old friends. Thomas has offered to face Martin, who was traded to Denver in the off-season, in a boxing ring.

Thomas said he never received an apology for the foul by Collins that sent him crashing to the Continental Arena floor and required him to be taken from the arena on a stretcher, and he does not want one now.

"I mean, some guys are cowards about it," Thomas said. "It is what it is. I won't be the last one he does it to."

Thomas said the worst part was knowing that his children were home watching on television, seeing their father helped off the floor. But on the court it cost the Knicks, too, leaving the team without one of its most potent scorers, a player who had averaged 17.8 points against the Nets in the postseason a year earlier while he was a member of the Milwaukee Bucks.

"It just took out a scorer," Thomas said. "Someone who in the series a year before that had given them trouble. They knew that coming in. How can you settle it?"

Thomas was also upset that none of his teammates retaliated, a situation he said he was certain would be different now that the team had spent more time together.

"Tim expected a little more from us," said Kurt Thomas, who was - to his surprise - named one of the team's three captains Wednesday with Stephon Marbury and Allan Houston. "We were already undermanned. He was already down. By us going out there and intentionally fouling someone or getting in a fight, we'd lose other guys. It was just about going out there competing, trying to get a win."

With Martin gone and Jason Kidd sidelined for at least the preseason and most likely longer after knee surgery, the Nets have their own worries. The Knicks, for the most part, were trying to look ahead and use Thursday's game as the first step in what they hope will be a far different outcome in the rivalry.

REBOUNDS

Kurt Thomas was named a captain after another off-season of trade rumors and having to fight off the second-year forward Mike Sweetney for the starting power forward job. "I think that he worked real hard and set a great tone in training camp," Coach Lenny Wilkens said. "When he's on the floor it's the same thing. He doesn't take nights off. The rumors, if you're in this league you're going to hear the rumors. You can't let it affect you and I wanted him to know I appreciate what he does." Thomas said, "Patrick Ewing was a captain and he got traded, right?"

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
Tim Thomas challenges Kenyon Martin to a fight in a boxing ring

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