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Knickfury11
Posts: 20290 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/19/2020 Member: #8856 United Kingdom |
5/13/2020 3:09 AM
I think that I understand your thought process here and you make a valid point Briggs. I have stated before I’m an advocate for making Vanvleet part of our roster. True he’s not the most athletic, fastest PG. Goes undrafted in 2016, develops in the G league, part of the G league 2017 championship team. 2019 becomes an integral part of an NBA championship team. Remember game 6? Great D on Curry and hits 5 x 3’s of the bench!! I analyse trends and see him further improving. You correctly mention intangibles, some of which I believe cannot be taught. I’m high on Grit, determination, dedication. This guy is an underdog, scraps and fighting for every opportunity at every stage of his career. I love that attitude. Give me a Knick roster with more players with that attitude please!! You identify Pritchard and Stanley as similar types, yeah I see it, but there is a big gamble here and taking on MORE PG projects that may not develop due to multiple possibilities? I’m just not really keen on. DSJ anybody? Cheaper approach but we have to start adding some proven, higher caliber players soon right?
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GT2AM
Posts: 20073 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 2/9/2020 Member: #8847 |
5/13/2020 3:27 AM
I'd would rather trade up multiple picks in the draft to try to get better prospects than multiple second rounders or looking for undrafted gems. Quality rather than quantity. Thats one reason Trier and Iggy didn't see the floor this year. There are only so many rotation spots. There are currently 9 players on the Knicks on rookie deals now. Barret, Ntilikina, Mitch, Knox, DSJ, Trier, Iggy, Dotson, and Kenny Wooton. Just filling up the roster with multiple young players (they have 3 more draft picks this year) doesn't leave room for supplimentary vets or there will be young guys not getting burn anyway.
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franco12
Posts: 34069 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
5/13/2020 7:41 AM
Assuming the draft comes before Free Agency, I think you have to do your best to find solid PG prospects. I think it's our area of greatest weakness.
I don't know if Perry/Rose have any insight into where VanVleet might go, what Toronto might do in terms of matching. I was a proponent of maxing him out. But, with the cap dropping potentially for the next couple years, we probably have a better chance of getting Lowry in a dump with draft picks than VanVleet. SO- given the state of flux, I think it's more important than ever to find talent in the draft, and to stay flexible. |
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Knickfury11
Posts: 20290 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/19/2020 Member: #8856 United Kingdom |
5/13/2020 10:30 AM
franco12 wrote:Assuming the draft comes before Free Agency, I think you have to do your best to find solid PG prospects. I think it's our area of greatest weakness. Yes agree with staying flexible whole heartedly. This potentially puts us in a position to make a move should something decent arise. Given Lowry is 34yrs do we really want him in anything but a mentoring type role? It’s difficult to speculate until a post draft scenario. I’m high on the idea of the addition of Vanvleet if we strike out on PG in the draft. |
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
5/13/2020 11:36 AM
Knickfury11 wrote:franco12 wrote:Assuming the draft comes before Free Agency, I think you have to do your best to find solid PG prospects. I think it's our area of greatest weakness. Nah. Not interested at all in spending 16-18 mm on van fleet. Whole post is about finding our own n a cost effective contract RIP Crushalot😞
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franco12
Posts: 34069 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
5/13/2020 1:53 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Knickfury11 wrote:franco12 wrote:Assuming the draft comes before Free Agency, I think you have to do your best to find solid PG prospects. I think it's our area of greatest weakness. if you could add VanVleet (VVVVV! NOT FFFF) for $16M per year, you do it. We're paying Portis $15M and while I love Portis, he won't impact the positive play of our team like VanVleet would. Now - I thought the number he was looking at, pre pandemic, was more like $20M per and like $80M over 4. Reading on what may happen with the cap - is not the full hit for next season, but spread out. How do you not take the most money this FA period? Because things could be worse in a years time. DO you think Leon Rose is going to wait to find a PG? It's the biggest need we have. PF, ok with Randle. Set at Center with Robinson. RJ Barret - good at the SF or SG spot. Now - easy to find a plug in for either SF or SG - I'd retain both Harkless and Dotson. And in the draft, find my best shooters that can play in either spot. That leaves the highly skilled position of PG to sort out. I don't see Leon going to Dolan and saying - there is this kid in the 2nd round who might be our guy in 3-4 years.
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smackeddog
Posts: 38389 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/30/2005 Member: #883 |
5/13/2020 4:47 PM
I like the idea of signing VanVleet and drafting Tyrese Haliburton, a back court of very smart players. VanVleet was very clutch in the playoffs. |
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martin
Posts: 76208 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
5/13/2020 4:48 PM
smackeddog wrote: What price point are you comfortable with? Given normal cap space range Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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smackeddog
Posts: 38389 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/30/2005 Member: #883 |
5/13/2020 5:05 PM
martin wrote:smackeddog wrote: I was comfortable giving him a lot more than I am now. If everything was normal, I would have maybe overpaid and given $20mil+. Under the current situation though I like the idea of having so much cap space in the current environment, especially if teams may need to offload players. I have no idea! Depends on what the CBA changes are, definitely wouldn’t max him out (though I’d prefer him over CP3s salary). |
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HOF19
Posts: 20155 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/3/2017 Member: #7569 |
5/13/2020 6:53 PM
franco12 wrote:Assuming the draft comes before Free Agency, I think you have to do your best to find solid PG prospects. I think it's our area of greatest weakness. Like the Flexible plan ………..But would "Kick the Tires " on VanVleet see what price range is involved . |
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nyvector16
Posts: 21322 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/9/2001 Member: #130 USA |
5/14/2020 6:40 AM
Totally agree with you Briggs.
In today’s NBA, unless you are a bonafide star, your value to the team is a mix of talent and contract. Talent/Contract is the ratio that most successful GMs figure out. When you throw this formula off balance it can be either really good for the team or really bad for the team. Overpaying for mediocre talent kills team cap flexibility in free agency and in re-negotiations. |
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SupremeCommander
Posts: 34057 Alba Posts: 35 Joined: 4/28/2006 Member: #1127 |
5/14/2020 8:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:[YouTube]If I said look at this guy he’s a great second rd pick— you would year crickets. trust us, if you had created a thread about Van Fleet, you would have bumped it by now. Kinda surprised you missed him considering everyone else you've told us to look out for DLeethal wrote:
Lol Rick needs a safe space
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franco12
Posts: 34069 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
5/14/2020 8:41 AM
nyvector16 wrote:Totally agree with you Briggs. VanVleet is not mediocre talent. You overpay because he's proven and can run a team and that is a rare commodity. You overpay for VanVleet because we have some nice talent, but we have no one that can get that talent to play at the next level. We need a PG that can shoot from outside and hit lay ups. I get that we're probably not one piece away from being a contender, but I think we are a few pieces away from being competitive and being in a position for the playoffs. And I think that hardest piece to find is an NBA ready PG. Payton, Frank, DSjr are not NBA starter talent. Maybe back up, situational talent. Mitchell Robinson is right there at being an elite threat on the PNR- we need a player that can run it. Randle was problematic this year because he tried to do too much. He has warts, but he is a solid, NBA player. RJ Barret has shown flashes of being a potential star in this league. Is he a franchise changing talent? Probably not. But All Star capable? I think so. That leaves the back court. If you can add VanVleet - just focus on finding a SF - and I think Frank and Dotson could, if healthy, hold that position down. Assuming an 82 game season - I think that group is 35 wins, +/-5. |
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Knickfury11
Posts: 20290 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/19/2020 Member: #8856 United Kingdom |
5/14/2020 3:44 PM
franco12 wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Totally agree with you Briggs. I view Frankie as far superior to DSJ & Payton. I’m rooting for Frankie to be able to display consistently the all around form he had the last three games Of the season. If this happens he could become a starting caliber PG. If his playmaking and offence ever caught up to his defensive ability we would have an all star! Don’t see Dotson as a 3 at all, would get murdered on D. |
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
5/14/2020 4:13 PM
nyvector16 wrote:Totally agree with you Briggs. We have to find our own Van Fleet. I don’t think he’s anything that we can acquire/ develop. We don’t have the type of complimentary players Toronto has— he benefits from that. I’m not saying he’s not a good player who has developed well— I’m saying let’s try to find our own that is developed around our own team. Why not take the short cut and simply sign him— I don’t think he will be nearly as good on the k I is. He’s developed w Toronto. It’s going to be another 3 months before we even see the real deal. Some of this is so premature cuz we be bored. But I’m not in favor of paying up for van fleet RIP Crushalot😞
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