GT2AM wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GT2AM wrote:I know basketball players are professional and all. But the Knicks are young and growing. Shouldn't there be a good example type of thing, like if you work hard and improve you'll get rewarded with success. Trading out Mike Miller for some fancy new coach, wouldn't that be setting a bad example for the Knicks kids. Is this type of thing not important?

I do think he has earned the job for another year. I also think by playing it forward and keeping Miller you avoid what could be a bad situation with Thibs. I don’t think Thibs is a good fit for the Knick roster and I think Rose would have a hard tim firing a friend like Thibs. Hiring Thibs is similar in some ways to hiring Ewing. What do you do if it doesn’t work? Do you keep trying to make something work that won’t because you hired a friend or franchise legend?

Majority of this roster sucks, and what's the purpose of hiring a new president if your not planing on changing the coach or roster (if not both)

There isn't a single player on this team who should not be up for grabs

Is it wrong for a new executive to take a measured approach? I don't see now as the time for drastic changes just to make changes. Too much is not known at this point. I am fine with the Knicks not picking up the option on any of the vets that they brought in. If there is a move to improve the team make it. Making moves just to have change would be foolish.

Unfortunately when your taken over a franchise that has been losing a lot of games you can't just make minor moves to right the ship.

Changing a culture comes at a price

Rushing to always make changes is not always the quicker route to success than patience. When Perry came in a few years ago he said the plan was to draft young long athletic players who can grow together. Young players will get better as a team just by being familiar with each other, knowing each others spots. It's obviously a plan that takes a number of years. If Rose kept Perry that would tell you that he's good with that plan, saw something right with it. Then he brought in a draft guru to assumedly continue that plan, Knicks having many draft picks coming up. Knicks are actually in a great place. Young players, some with star potential, some with role player potential. Picks coming up. Cap space to use. Why do they need major changes to the plan? 17 wins last year, on pace for 32 this year(with Miller). Thats improvement. Slow but steady. But then there will be a team together for years. Familiar with one another, while other teams take half a season to figure each other out. I don't think Rose will do anything drastic, especially with Aller being the strategic mind. You think Aller will sign up for Chris Paul to fill up his clean cap canvas? No, I think this new front office won't blow everything up just to make drastic changes for the sake of righting the ship. Ships not capsized, it just has a small engine for a bit longer, till these guys grow up a bit.

Great point about Aller and CP3. I read a good article on Filmschool speculating that Aller wouldn’t chase restricted free agents. Rose has built a nice front office. I am not sure. That now is the right time for change with the coaching staff. I think the smart play is to extend Miller a year and see what happens.

Nalod wrote:Do some of us think we smarter than Rose Perry, Aller, Perrin and Zann? Like they don’t know knick history? Know. About that “culture” thing?

Whats this elusive culture thing about anyway? Wins. Wins set culture. Right now (over the last 20 years) the Knicks culture is turnover, fired coaches, new Presidents, quick fix trades that never work out, giving bad contracts, trading draft picks away, and Dolan making a fool of himself. There has been some change over the last 3 years. Not making stupid trades or giving bad contracts and valuing draft picks. I guess it takes time to change a culture. But the Knicks got to change culture by NOT doing what they've been doing for the last 2 decades. If they start to eventually win with this new stratgey then walla; you got a new culture.

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Do some of us think we smarter than Rose Perry, Aller, Perrin and Zann? Like they don’t know knick history? Know. About that “culture” thing?

I think we were all smarter than Mills, looking at the Tim Hardaway Jr contract and proposed trades at the deadline before he got fired

Perry seems a smart guy, haven't seen the new guys in action yet!

what make you think perry is a smart guy, he comes across as a yes man. I never seen him in a press conference alone, when him and mills were being interview, he barely spoke and mills answer 90% of the questions.

Who was responsible for taking 70 million and building a rag tag team of misfits?

who's IDEA was it to trade for Mudiay, who's idea was it to sign payton and mario, those aren't exactly smart moves, and it definitely didn't make us a better team.

He's a nice guy though

fishmike wrote:

Why is Tom Thibadeu coveted?

Because he's a really good coach

I thought more of him as a coach before Minny. Not giving his bench the minutes to be a factor doesnt look like good coaching to me. Id be happy to see Thibs hired as an asst, a defensive coordinator. But Id rather see the job go to someone that does a better job of seeing the big picture.

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Do some of us think we smarter than Rose Perry, Aller, Perrin and Zann? Like they don’t know knick history? Know. About that “culture” thing?

I think we were all smarter than Mills, looking at the Tim Hardaway Jr contract and proposed trades at the deadline before he got fired

Perry seems a smart guy, haven't seen the new guys in action yet!

what make you think perry is a smart guy, he comes across as a yes man. I never seen him in a press conference alone, when him and mills were being interview, he barely spoke and mills answer 90% of the questions.

Who was responsible for taking 70 million and building a rag tag team of misfits?

who's IDEA was it to trade for Mudiay, who's idea was it to sign payton and mario, those aren't exactly smart moves, and it definitely didn't make us a better team.

He's a nice guy though

What makes you say Perry is a yes man? He stood his ground vs Mills and the daft trade moves he wanted to make before he got fired- reports of them clashing/not being on the same page for a while and at the draft (again Perry pushed for RJ rather than Mills who wanted to trade down)

This is the first i'm ever hearing about mills wanting to trade down, every report had them drafting RJ.

Perry's track record in turn around any franchise while in his front office role has not been good.

At this point I'm only interested in hiring people that have had previous success in the roles we need filling.

just think, the last time we have had any success was when we hired Walsh(proven success with indiana) Mda (proven success with the suns) even mike woodson who did a solid job in ATL.

But Mills, Perry, JH, Rambis, fisher, phil, fizdale, had little to no success in the roles we had them in, and the results prove it.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Why is Tom Thibadeu coveted?

Because he's a really good coach

I thought more of him as a coach before Minny. Not giving his bench the minutes to be a factor doesnt look like good coaching to me. Id be happy to see Thibs hired as an asst, a defensive coordinator. But Id rather see the job go to someone that does a better job of seeing the big picture.

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Do some of us think we smarter than Rose Perry, Aller, Perrin and Zann? Like they don’t know knick history? Know. About that “culture” thing?

I think we were all smarter than Mills, looking at the Tim Hardaway Jr contract and proposed trades at the deadline before he got fired

Perry seems a smart guy, haven't seen the new guys in action yet!

what make you think perry is a smart guy, he comes across as a yes man. I never seen him in a press conference alone, when him and mills were being interview, he barely spoke and mills answer 90% of the questions.

Who was responsible for taking 70 million and building a rag tag team of misfits?

who's IDEA was it to trade for Mudiay, who's idea was it to sign payton and mario, those aren't exactly smart moves, and it definitely didn't make us a better team.

He's a nice guy though

What makes you say Perry is a yes man? He stood his ground vs Mills and the daft trade moves he wanted to make before he got fired- reports of them clashing/not being on the same page for a while and at the draft (again Perry pushed for RJ rather than Mills who wanted to trade down)

This is the first i'm ever hearing about mills wanting to trade down, every report had them drafting RJ.

Perry's track record in turn around any franchise while in his front office role has not been good.

At this point I'm only interested in hiring people that have had previous success in the roles we need filling.

just think, the last time we have had any success was when we hired Walsh(proven success with indiana) Mda (proven success with the suns) even mike woodson who did a solid job in ATL.

But Mills, Perry, JH, Rambis, fisher, phil, fizdale, had little to no success in the roles we had them in, and the results prove it.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Do some of us think we smarter than Rose Perry, Aller, Perrin and Zann? Like they don’t know knick history? Know. About that “culture” thing?

I think we were all smarter than Mills, looking at the Tim Hardaway Jr contract and proposed trades at the deadline before he got fired

Perry seems a smart guy, haven't seen the new guys in action yet!

what make you think perry is a smart guy, he comes across as a yes man. I never seen him in a press conference alone, when him and mills were being interview, he barely spoke and mills answer 90% of the questions.

Who was responsible for taking 70 million and building a rag tag team of misfits?

who's IDEA was it to trade for Mudiay, who's idea was it to sign payton and mario, those aren't exactly smart moves, and it definitely didn't make us a better team.

He's a nice guy though

What makes you say Perry is a yes man? He stood his ground vs Mills and the daft trade moves he wanted to make before he got fired- reports of them clashing/not being on the same page for a while and at the draft (again Perry pushed for RJ rather than Mills who wanted to trade down)

This is the first i'm ever hearing about mills wanting to trade down, every report had them drafting RJ.

Perry's track record in turn around any franchise while in his front office role has not been good.

At this point I'm only interested in hiring people that have had previous success in the roles we need filling.

just think, the last time we have had any success was when we hired Walsh(proven success with indiana) Mda (proven success with the suns) even mike woodson who did a solid job in ATL.

But Mills, Perry, JH, Rambis, fisher, phil, fizdale, had little to no success in the roles we had them in, and the results prove it.

D'Antoni and Walsh were horrible in NY. Walsh was one of the worst gms this franchise has had. D'Antoni couldn't win with the king's ransom the knicks gave up for Melo or with Melo and Tyson. D'Antoni running Amare's uninsured knees into the ground that first year would make Thibs blush. Sometimes fit needs to be considered with the roster and the gm. Not sure Thibs fits with the roster or a rebuild. He might be Rose's guy.

Dolan forced the Melo trade, you know that crush. If you consider walsh one of the worst we had, despite making the playoffs 3 out of the 4 yrs he was here, not to mention clearing some the worst contracts in all of sports, dealing with MDA and marbury (who I T brought in).

There's no way in hell you can say I T, MILS or Phil did a better job than walsh, those 3 fools ran the knicks for 15 out of the last 20 yrs.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Why is Tom Thibadeu coveted?

Because he's a really good coach

I thought more of him as a coach before Minny. Not giving his bench the minutes to be a factor doesnt look like good coaching to me. Id be happy to see Thibs hired as an asst, a defensive coordinator. But Id rather see the job go to someone that does a better job of seeing the big picture.

You must not be as high on as some others on this board. Join the club. Sorry, I still get kicks out of taking shots at coach stache hahaha. Joking aside, the minutes thing is troubling. I hope it's something he's had time to reflect on. On the flipside, his offensive numbers in Minnesota were way better than those Bills teams he coached. That gives me some that he's capable of adjusting to his players. I would rather keep Miller or sign Atkinson, but there are worse moves to be made than signing This.... Did someone say Fizdale?

I knew MDA wasnt a prototypical Knicks coach, at the time. But he had a good track record. What soured me on him was running players into the ground, poor use of timeouts, plays out of timeouts, putting volume over shot selection. "Keep shooting", coached like he was playing craps at Vegas.

I dont see Thibs at this point being an upgrade over Miller from Xs and Os, to getting his players to buy in. Not the sexy pick, unless some big stars insist on a coach, or an elite (working) coach is available Id like to see Miller get a full season to make his case.

Why would you like to see Miller get a full a season? He works hard and had a nice G league run. Thats it. Can we stop inflating Mike Miller into something he has yet to prove? Why do the Knicks get to be his trial team? Thibs has been a good coach at every stop and a very good teacher. Seems the biggest knock is he played his best players too much? Best player on the Bulls were Rose/Noah/Deng and Rose was hurt a ton. When he wasnt they were winning 50-60 games. When he was there were still winning close to 50.

Miller has no juice and his biggest endorsement is he did better than Fizdale. He's likable and a hard worker. Would be nice to see a good coach and a ready made staff come in with a plan and a system and be on the same page as the FO. Of all the guys out there including Atkinson, Thibs is the best choice.